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Offlineenotake2
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Can you talk someone out of a drug habit?
    #1317603 - 02/18/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I have a friend who is using more and more alcohol. Does talking to people with a habit help anything. Or do they have to decide to stop for themselves? Anyone had any experiences with this?


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1317606 - 02/18/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Tell him you're concerned about him and that you think he might have a problem. At least give him something to think about. But the bottom line is that you can't make hime quit unless he wants to quit.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1317690 - 02/18/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I have a friend who is an alcoholic. He flunked out of grad school, or rather went on medical leave when he blacked out for 3 days straight- from sat to tues morning didnt remember a thing went home got into rehab and saw the scirosis? and other medical problems he will face and I mean WILL theres no doubt and also the other pathetic addicted people in support and said straight faced that he did not want to ever quit drinking, he pisssed everyone off there including his mother who got him into a great program-- moved out of hjis moms and in with me and my friends and continues to drink himself into a blackout state every time he drinks. I am amazed that he gets through work and hasnt been fired... I work with him at a law firm. Its sad. His ex put it best "If doesnt think he has hit rock bottom yet, I wonder how much lower that place is for him." We all have tried numerous times to tell him to at least slow down, but he shoots back that we drink to (not to his extent do I ever abuse alcohol) and that I abuse other substances so I have no right. He doesnt want anyones help thats that. Its hard to ever change a stubborn addict of anything  :confused:


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OfflineJackal
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1317829 - 02/18/03 10:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Its gonna be difficult to get him to stop unless he wants to. Depending on how stubborn he is he may not even listen to your plea. I have first-hand experience of this.

My Father is an alcoholic and has had pancreatis as a direct result of his alcoholism three times. Pancreatits is very often fatal and we are amazed that he is still alive. Everytime he had it he would swear blind that he would stop drinking, but the procedure is always the same:

After returning from hospital he would start drinking juices and coke, generally soft drinks. Then he'd find an excuse for a non-alcoholic beer, maybe a football match on the TV. He'd be like "I miss the taste, maybe I'll get some Kaliber (alcohol-free beer)" This would continue for several weeks, then he would start buying normal beer and mixing it with the Kaliber - then inevitably he would knocking it back like its going out of fashion.

We've tried everything - programs, continual support, starting hobbies with him. etc. etc. But he's just a stubborn bastard, he is also a grown man - we can't dictate his life for him.

I haven't had a drink for over 7 weeks. I used to have 4 cans a night - more on the weekend. But then I realised its evil. The negatives far outweighed the positives. I'd never know when to stop, I would make an ass of myself. And I would end up being sick, have a screaming headache and generally hung-over. If its one thing I can't abide its feelings of dizziness and nausea. In addition I could see the effects it was having on my Dad. I don't want to go down that route. I wanted to quit and I have, and I know I have the strength never to drink again.

Thought I'd share my experiences with you. :smile: 


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OfflineGolem
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1318019 - 02/19/03 01:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm thinking like everyone else that they have to decide that they want to stop. I had two cousins that wouldn't stop doing inhalants until they almost killed themselves while driving. Fortuantley that got them to stop, when all my talks wouldn't.


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The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1318020 - 02/19/03 01:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I have abused tobacco until recently.
Don't laugh.
I smoked 3 packs a day and got sweaty & agitated to the extreme if I were 1 1/2-2 hours without it. I WANTED to stop. I talked sense into myself. Every cigarette I took I affirmed: "Disgusting. dangerous. one day soon I'll stop" Wel, er.. didn't work.

Then I was on a meditation involving Cannabis and Datura (Warning: severe physical and spiritual danger! Do not try this at home) one evening and there in Atropia it was made clear to me:

"You're not smoking that cigarette: The cigarette is smoking YOU and one day he'll put YOU out if you'll continue."

The next morning I was extremely peaceful, more so than after most Shroom sessions even. I sat on the crapper smoking the first cig of the day. Suddenly I shook my head. "No: enough of this." I put it out and never smoked one again. Withdrawal never was as easy as then.

About two weeks later on last December 27 I woke up in the midst of having a heart infarction. I wasn't among the 50% DOA. I survived.
But I knew that had I lit up during that attack I probably would've died on the spot, as nicotine constricts the coronary artery, especially the first cig of the day.


But to stay on-topic: I strongly believe one can only quit an addiction if one truely and totally wants it AND if it's the right time for you. Express your love and concern, but do not try to torment the "addict" into quitting because that'll only drive him to the bottle/syringe/pillpot.

Alcohol is SERIOUS. Shooting up pharmaceutical heroin one can easily live well into their 80s, but alcohol and cigarettes truely are POISONS. Poison-cancer-death.
The liver -has- to transform alcohol into acetaldehyde. This is a known carcinogen and it is the closest derivative of FORMALDEHYDE. (no shit) So drinking a liter of Smirnoff, no matter if you drink it in a year, makes about 300 GRAMS of a PROVEN CARCINOGEN course trough your body. And with carcinogens it's just as with radiation: the more of it in a given timespan, the bigger the chance things go wrong. Alcohol is a poison for every part of your body, yes: your BONES TOO.

Try to convince him, show your concern and empower him...
But he must turn the switch and his hand cannot be forced.



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Offlinespleen
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: Asante]
    #1318900 - 02/19/03 09:52 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


But to stay on-topic: I strongly believe one can only quit an addiction if one truely and totally wants it AND if it's the right time for you. Express your love and concern, but do not try to torment the "addict" into quitting because that'll only drive him to the bottle/syringe/pillpot.




I just want to echo this, I've been dealing with an alcoholic in my life for about 8 months or so now and this is just  so true - emotional blackmail, checking up on the person you're worried about all the time etc. just doesn't work - it just causes resentment :frown:
You can't force someone to shake an addiction, it has to come from within them.
   


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Anonymous #1

Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: Asante]
    #1319844 - 02/19/03 04:28 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1320742 - 02/20/03 12:38 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for all your replies. Yeah I expect you are right, people have to decide when enough's enough themselves. Its just so hard to watch someone do that. Not because I have moral problems with it or whatever, because it is so damn sad. Anyway I guess that is my problem not his. Thanks again, thats made me much clearer  :grin:  :grin:


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1321164 - 02/20/03 06:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've had friends that had alcohol probs. It just amazed me that they spoke like they were retarded not the people that I remembered. I wouldn't know how to tell your friend to stop if he's that involved. Personally I don't drink at all because even a few glasses of anything leaves me feeling like shit......

Maybe give him some shrooms that might temporairly wake him up..... This could turn out bad though.

Goodluck !


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: Asante]
    #1323460 - 02/20/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Try to convince him, show your concern and empower him...


Hey Wiccan Seeker,
what do you mean by that sentence, I mean the empowering bit.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1323509 - 02/21/03 12:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Alot of times the people around someone with a drug problem tend to put a person down. Alot of the talk used makes the person feel weaker, less-able to cope with the situation. When he sez "I can handle it, I've got it under control" the usual caustic reply would be "yeah, rite: you're really handling it well, you probably couldn't stop if it practically killed you."

Now that ain't coaching, that's convincing someone they CAN't handle it. Regardless if they can, "I have control" is the only viable attitude for quitting. The abuser may argue & argue but deep; down they KNOW they've got a problem and FEAR they can't handle it. You play into that fear by combatting their sense of control. Should a person feel helpless troughout, the problem is way more serious.

Remind him that alc. isn't required, even a burden, to a satisfying life. That people will love him more if he cut down or stopped. Tell him you believe in him, you're highly concerned & that everybody around him is. Say he'll be happier without the booze. Assure him that he really can quit if he wants it, that he's stronger than the bottle & to really, REALLY think about what he's doing to himself.

He knows he has a problem, trust me. Even the King of de Nile knows that, just won't admit it to himself. By being POSITIVE and SUPPORTIVE, not antagonistic or even caustic, you can truely help him, but even then there are no guarantees. Challanging him generally backfires: activate his love for himself & those around him and assure him that he really CAN cut down or stop if he decides to.

The sense of powerlessness makes him continue.
Loving support, enhancement of his inner strenght, insight & HIS CHOICE can make him stop.
But, there are no guarantees... Drug addiction is extremely hard to quit in the long run. Should he be open to alternatives and it be right for him, tea of cannabis may provide a good substitute. Cutting down is a good first step to lure him into self-confidence, but the only true option is to quit and never drink a drop again.

Quitting hardcore alcoholism cold turkey (all at once) may give rise to Delirium Tremens and may, unlike quitting Heroin, prove fatal. Should he get really sick & be seeing things he should be hospitalized immediatly.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: Asante]
    #1323540 - 02/21/03 01:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks Wiccan Seeker. You're great.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineHBS
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1328611 - 02/23/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If I felt somebody I knew was having a major drug problem, I would tell them exactly how I feel about it. If they continued/got worse, I would sadly say that although I'd be there for them if they needed my help stopping, I would not want to be around them anymore. I don't feel that this ultimatum is selfish, I feel that it would show them how much their addiction is ruining your feelings of connection with them.


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1328645 - 02/23/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You can but try :smile: i have had success and failiar but you still have to try if you see a problem evolving.You may end up losing a friend but you may also end up saving one.So try your hardest and play the situation how you see fit.
Good luck and i wish you succsess :smile:


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Can you talk someone out of a drug habit? [Re: enotake2]
    #1329884 - 02/23/03 10:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Narcotics Anonymous


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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