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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: johnm214]
    #13165792 - 09/08/10 03:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark itself is not illegal, however, preparing it for consumption / extraction is when it becomes illegal. A law enforcement agency could argue that if it is pre-powdered, it was being prepared for consumption, but that evidence alone is flimsy at very best. Mimosa hostilis grows wild in several regions of the U.S., there is no attempt made by law enforcement agencies to remove this species from these regions, so I highly doubt that it is 'scheduled'.

The fact that you may get it pre-powdered is suspicious yes, but as Nicholas Cage said in Lord of War, "Thank God, we are living in a world where suspicion alone does not constitute a crime."

If it is scheduled, I am not able to find any such information in my searching of the internet - could you provide a link to this information?

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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: c1dh3d]
    #13165871 - 09/08/10 03:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c1dh3d said:
Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark itself is not illegal, however, preparing it for consumption / extraction is when it becomes illegal. A law enforcement agency could argue that if it is pre-powdered, it was being prepared for consumption, but that evidence alone is flimsy at very best. Mimosa hostilis grows wild in several regions of the U.S., there is no attempt made by law enforcement agencies to remove this species from these regions, so I highly doubt that it is 'scheduled'.

The fact that you may get it pre-powdered is suspicious yes, but as Nicholas Cage said in Lord of War, "Thank God, we are living in a world where suspicion alone does not constitute a crime."

If it is scheduled, I am not able to find any such information in my searching of the internet - could you provide a link to this information?





21 USC 812(c) Schedule I (c)

Quote:

Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation: [...]
(6) Dimethyltryptamine.




This classifies MHRB with any quantity of DMT as a schedule I substance regardless of knowledge, intent, et cet.  As I said, intent and whatever matters for particular statutes, not for the scheduling of scheduled drugs.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: c1dh3d]
    #13165952 - 09/08/10 03:57 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark itself is not illegal

As others have pointed out, it contains an illegal substance and because of that they can charge you.  Will you be found guilty?  Who knows?  Will it cost you, regardless of guilt or innocence?  Absolutely.

> If it is scheduled, I am not able to find any such information in my searching of the internet

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/21/usc_sec_21_00000802----000-.html:
Quote:

(6) The term “controlled substance” means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this subchapter. The term does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in subtitle E of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.




Quote:

(23) The term “immediate precursor” means a substance—
(A) which the Attorney General has found to be and by regulation designated as being the principal compound used, or produced primarily for use, in the manufacture of a controlled substance;
(B) which is an immediate chemical intermediary used or likely to be used in the manufacture of such controlled substance; and
(C) the control of which is necessary to prevent, curtail, or limit the manufacture of such controlled substance.




But the real kicker is...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/21/usc_sec_21_00000812----000-.html:
Quote:

(c) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:

...

(6) Dimethyltryptamine.

...




If they really wanted to put the screw to you, they would claim that you are planning to manufacture a controlled substance because MHRB is an immediate precursor to n,n-DMT and they also nail you with possession of a controlled substance because MHRB contains n,n-DMT.  What is the jury going to believe you were planning on doing with two pounds of the stuff?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: johnm214]
    #13166088 - 09/08/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't notice this part on the web page when I originally read it:

Quote:

johnm214 said:

Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation: [...]
(6) Dimethyltryptamine.




Scheduling does not necessarily imply the legality or lack thereof of possessing said substance, but the distribution of it being regulated by the government. From my understanding of the law, it may be grounds for investigation as to intent, but does not constitute breaking any specific laws by merely possessing it.

If this were the case, plant nurseries across the entire U.S. could be raided for selling San Pedro cacti species, because they contain a trace amount of mescaline.

Also, note the case of bouncing bear botanicals. He was raided, arrested, and an investigation ensued as his business warehoused an alphabet of products containing scheduled substanances - however the charges were dropped as there was no evidence to prove his intent to manufacture a scheduled chemical from said substance. They confiscated his inventory, as per the 'regulation' portion of scheduling act, but from a criminality aspect - he had broken no laws.

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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: c1dh3d]
    #13166265 - 09/08/10 04:46 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c1dh3d said:
I didn't notice this part on the web page when I originally read it:

Quote:

johnm214 said:

Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation: [...]
(6) Dimethyltryptamine.




Scheduling does not necessarily imply the legality or lack thereof of possessing said substance, but the distribution of it being regulated by the government.




If it is scheduled it sure isn't possible to say it's legal, that's the point.

There are many situations in whcih the law provides prohibitions, and many of them will prohibit certain acts with controlled substances. 
Quote:



From my understanding of the law, it may be grounds for investigation as to intent, but does not constitute breaking any specific laws by merely possessing it.




Intent to do what?

Anyways, I'm not sure what the point here is.  I've not argued contrary to this, and in any case, this is generally not going to be the situation of relevance to members here.

The original poster and those on this website who possess MHRB or order it will be commiting a crime.

I believe that the federal possesion law would provide criminal penalties for simple knowing possession of MHRB or ordering thereof- I think due to the vagueness of the law the defendant should have to be proven to know of the DMT content in MHRB, however; I dont think this is required under the law at all.

In this case, the person who knows they possess some item will be guilty if that item has MHRB in it, and the guy who orders it online will be guilty.


Regardless, the big problem is that people make bad decisions on the basis of these matters of law which are usually irrelevant in the normal course of things.  Regardless of all this there is certainly cause to arrest and charge anyone who possesses MHRB, and since everyone on this site will be breaking the law by possessing it and ordering it, it is wise to not treat it as if it is a legal activity.

In these discussions of law people seem to loose site of reality and forget that they will be convicted not on some matter of law but because they confessed or admitted several elements of the offense allready.

The advice in this very thread to explain some hippy use for the MHRB would establish some of the elements of the offense of possession of DMT (all in my view), and this is agood example of this.


Quote:

but from a criminality aspect - he had broken no laws.




The fact that you claim charges were not brought does not at all mean this is the case and it has even less to say about what the law is.  You refer to the absence of some action and that never establishes law


Quote:



If this were the case, plant nurseries across the entire U.S. could be raided for selling San Pedro cacti species, because they contain a trace amount of mescaline.




As they could be, certainly


Quote:

They confiscated his inventory, as per the 'regulation' portion of scheduling act,





?  What reguation portion?  I don't know what your referring to.

The power to confiscate is the power to charge in essentially all cases.  That no charges were brought has almost nothing to do with the law and certainly nothing to say about it.  I guarentee you that decision was a matter of fact rather than law.

Edited by johnm214 (09/08/10 05:21 PM)

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OfflineOjom
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: johnm214]
    #13166479 - 09/08/10 05:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Police do lurk in post offices across the nation regularly. They are called postal inspectors.

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: johnm214]
    #13166583 - 09/08/10 05:41 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with almost everything you said there, except this:

Quote:


The fact that you claim charges were not brought does not at all mean this is the case and it has even less to say about what the law is.




This was, however, the case. Let me explain:

Quote:


The original poster and those on this website who possess MHRB or order it will be commiting a crime.




If this were true, that would make BBB the biggest commercial psychadelic kingpin ever to be busted, and then shortly after cut loose. I'd have an easier time believing a penguin flew across the Atlantic, than believing that the DEA dropped all charges on BBB, if the scheduling act was considered law rather than regulation.

There was documented sales of materials containing scheduled substances confiscated, there was an abundance of materials containing scheduled substances confiscated, however the federal government did not have a strong enough case to pursue a conviction.

That is a profound statement, considering it was a fairly large scale raid on a commercial company. They found materials, but did not find any evidence worth of a conviction.

Let me repeat that:

They found materials containing scheduled substances, but because they could not prove an illegal intent with those materials, they could not pursue criminal charges.

To ask 'What intent?' is just being coy. As I said, the DEA confiscated the inventory as per the 'regulation' portion of the scheduling act, however this case spells out in black and white - there were NO concrete criminal charges that could be pursued despite the overwhelming amount of 'scheduled' materials.

Edited by c1dh3d (09/08/10 07:08 PM)

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InvisibleCloud9
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13166591 - 09/08/10 05:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
ALRIGHT, NOW I think I'm not going to pick it up.

Checked the tracking a couple hours ago and of course it tells me the notice was left at the door.  I just checked again, and now there's two things that say a notice was left...

Notice Left, September 07, 2010, 6:38 pm,
Notice Left, September 07, 2010, 5:14 pm,

I'm really confused.

ADVICE ANYONE??

Reading says cops won't leave notices.  Paranoia says the police will do whatever they want.  What do I do?




christ this isn't rocket science, the company you bought it from probably had signature requirement and you weren't there when they knocked or they knocked lightly and just thought you weren't home so they left a note, and you go pick it up at the post office, it's happened to me a million times, don't worry.

if it was confiscated you would either get a note in the mail stating so, or they would simply come arrest you. i wouldn't be worried at all.


--------------------

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Anonymous #1

Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Ojom]
    #13166623 - 09/08/10 05:46 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Picked it up, everything is fine.  It was exactly the same as picking up a normal package from the post office.

So you can all sleep well tonight knowing I'm not going to be going to jail for wanting to make some dye.:thumbup:

Thanks to everyone who said I had nothing to worry about.  You were right :laugh:

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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13166724 - 09/08/10 06:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

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Anonymous #4

Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13166727 - 09/08/10 06:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Glad to hear it!

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #13166744 - 09/08/10 06:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Picked it up, everything is fine.  It was exactly the same as picking up a normal package from the post office.

So you can all sleep well tonight knowing I'm not going to be going to jail for wanting to make some dye.:thumbup:

Thanks to everyone who said I had nothing to worry about.  You were right :laugh:




That took some balls man, good job at stepping up to the plate :wink:

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Anonymous #1

Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: c1dh3d]
    #13166875 - 09/08/10 06:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c1dh3d said:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
Picked it up, everything is fine.  It was exactly the same as picking up a normal package from the post office.

So you can all sleep well tonight knowing I'm not going to be going to jail for wanting to make some dye.:thumbup:

Thanks to everyone who said I had nothing to worry about.  You were right :laugh:




That took some balls man, good job at stepping up to the plate :wink:




Yeah, my balls feel HUGE.

This whole situation gave me alot of time to think.  You know, being prepared to go to jail really changes a person....  I'm changing my life starting today.

Thanks everyone!

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Invisiblelucas_southoz
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13166914 - 09/08/10 06:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

you were prepared to go to jail for this?:huxleyfacepalm:

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Anonymous #1

Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: lucas_southoz]
    #13166953 - 09/08/10 06:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lucas_southoz said:
you were prepared to go to jail for this?:huxleyfacepalm:




Yes.  I was.  I'm pretty paranoid...  And well, 2 pounds is alot of bark....  Especially pre-powdered bark.  haha.

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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13166993 - 09/08/10 06:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

This is retarded, this is a legal substance.  It takes a fed judge issuing a warrant to open posted packages.  Go get it pussy!!!!
I used to have zips of bubble hash shipped from Canada and go fetch em from the post office....
Weak sauce, drama......

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: lucas_southoz]
    #13167004 - 09/08/10 06:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lucas_southoz said:
you were prepared to go to jail for this?:huxleyfacepalm:




You live and you learn :wink:

Some of us go to jail for gun charges at the age of 15, some of us go to jail for MHRB at the age of 19 :toast:

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Anonymous #1

Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13167254 - 09/08/10 07:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:
This is retarded, this is a legal substance.  It takes a fed judge issuing a warrant to open posted packages.  Go get it pussy!!!!
I used to have zips of bubble hash shipped from Canada and go fetch em from the post office....
Weak sauce, drama......




Tell some police it's legal.  I guarantee they'll have a different view.

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Offlineistandalone
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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13169333 - 09/09/10 08:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

jesus christ. if it was a sting, they'd come to your door. like someone else said, do you really think dea is waiting at the PO for you to come claim it? no. they'd set up a controlled delivery.
your fine.


--------------------
Now he's Johnny Hammersticks hammerin' away like he's friggin' Tommy Noble

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Re: Worried about USPS package [Re: istandalone]
    #13169586 - 09/09/10 09:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

This goes back to the endless arguments about are poppies illegal to grow, are 100+ varieties of cactus which contain some traces of mescaline or other illegal substances illegal to grow or possess? Then there is the star jasmine, a common ornamental which contains ibogaine, a controlled substance. Even poppy seeds contain controlled substances and you can buy them in the grocery store.

When you get to dmt, there are hundreds of varieties of plants that contain some amount of it. And if you want to talk about precursors, there are so many species that contain known or potential precursors that it's amazing. In theory, all of these plants are illegal and can get you many years in jail. In practice and in fact, this is not the case. I'm not going to argue with the usual suspects because it's like debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin. If bbb got off without being convicted, no one is going to be convicted absent evidence of extraction or intent to do so. If you extract dmt, yes you can be charged with a crime. If you extract opium, morphine, mescaline, ibogaine or many other compounds from a plant, you can be charged. Growing or simple possession will not get you into trouble. In theory, medical mj growers or users with state permission can go to jail for many years if obama wants to start the raids again. Don't worry about that either.

I realize a few people will never accept this reasoning and will continue to monger fear uncertainty and doubt. There is no convincing them so don't try. Keep your mouth shut and you are good to go. Failing to exercise your right to remain silent whether in custody or not, has lead to more problems than anything else.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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