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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: curenado]
#13164095 - 09/08/10 08:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sve said: Is it that the method of taking something causes different effects? Like taking a pill vs. getting a shot?
Could be. Route of administration plays a large role in many drugs, most notably due to speed of onset and first pass metabolism.
When clearing a submission to perform human experiments, one must provide very extensive data on how "pure" the compound is. An enormous amount of standards and analyses need to be provided to show that a drug administered to humans is "pure".
Theoreticlly, extracted psilocybin should be identical to synthesized psilocybin. One might make some (relatively) wild speculation on proportions of enantiomers or racemates that could affect the subjective profile between the two.
However, while that may affect potency, it shouldn't affect efficacy, and certainly wouldn't be expected to affect the outcome measures used in the study.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: badchad]
#13164116 - 09/08/10 08:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cool beans.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Led Zeppelin
Tripper
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 3,962
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: MushroomTrip] 1
#13164364 - 09/08/10 10:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why must we argue in this thread. this is good news!
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Dan4th
Psilocybin Researcher
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 39
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Last seen: 10 years, 25 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: sve]
#13165481 - 09/08/10 02:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can report that the subjects in the study did not experience the nausea and general GI upset that is commom with mushroom ingestion. With pure psilocybin at the 0.2mg/kg dose level, they did not describe the anxious feelings that often accompany coming on with mushrooms, either. The come down was gentle, too.
Participants who had prior experience taking mushrooms (some were psychedelic naive) reported fewer open-eye visuals with pure psilocybin. However, several reported vivid closed-eye visions.
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Ubitsa
Waiting Is
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 575
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: MushroomTrip]
#13165613 - 09/08/10 03:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: A chemical is a chemical is a chemical, etc. The same.
I know where you're coming from but I think you and curendo are arguing around a misunderstanding. Curnedo is just saying that there can be many other factors that affect an experience besides 'chemical'.
In the context of the original quote, I think it's generally accepted that eating a pure chemical will give different results from taking it in its natural form, due to other alkaloids present, among other factors.
For another example, some people can eat up to ~200mg DMT, but you wouldn't like an IV dose of 200mg DMT.
Curendo is not saying that a chemical can magically change its effects for different people in different ways or anything.
--------------------
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: Ubitsa] 1
#13165627 - 09/08/10 03:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh, I agree with that, but what he said was that synthetic isn't as potent as natural, when the discussion was in reference to a single chemical: psilocybin.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: Dan4th]
#13166097 - 09/08/10 04:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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looks like the study is already lighting up the news outlets...
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Dan4th
Psilocybin Researcher
Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 39
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Last seen: 10 years, 25 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: Freedom]
#13166424 - 09/08/10 05:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,124
Last seen: 9 months, 9 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today [Re: jivJaN]
#13168618 - 09/09/10 12:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jivJaN said: Awesome.
I want more details though. how much psilocybin were they administering and through which method ? which strain ? how frequently ?
link it up bro
no strain, they administered a dose of lab produced psilocybin because they would not be able to get consistent results from ingestion of actual mushrooms. The potency varies, the ratios of psilocin and psilocybin baeocystin too. Baeocystin was obviously not used in this study. As for the dose, they described it as moderate, .2 milligrams/kilogram of body weight. I have no clue what that equals in dry weight.
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Ubitsa
Waiting Is
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 575
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today [Re: uninc4life2010]
#13169403 - 09/09/10 08:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
uninc4life2010 said: .2 milligrams/kilogram of body weight. I have no clue what that equals in dry weight.
.2mg/kg for me(80kg) works out to 16mg Psilocybin, or ~30g fresh mushrooms, which i'd roughly translate to 3g dried.
So, a pretty decent dose.
--------------------
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today [Re: Ubitsa]
#13169448 - 09/09/10 09:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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But nothing "heroic" - that is good. We consider up to 2gm safe for most people. Saw a retinitis patient lay on a couch and laugh hysterically for two hours after 1.5gm. She's a liteweight, but the therapeutic effect was achieved even at the lo-dose. I used to think that the dose for a physical use would have to be higher but actually in a number of cases it hasn't seemed to be like that.
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: MushroomTrip]
#13169459 - 09/09/10 09:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Oh, I agree with that, but what he said was that synthetic isn't as potent as natural, when the discussion was in reference to a single chemical: psilocybin.
I did not.
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: curenado]
#13169518 - 09/09/10 09:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Right. This should explain why you said my statement was wrong, ignorant, that it was "good enough tripe for trash", and that experienced trippers know best, all while refusing to explain the mechanism through which you were right in saying that a synthetic chemical is weaker than a natural chemical. This should also explain why you then called me a troll, making it sound like I seriously disturbed the otherwise academic discussion that you were entertaining, and telling me that I should go troll someone stupid enough to talk to me. But now I believe you didn't flame, since you make it sound so credible.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: MushroomTrip] 2
#13169539 - 09/09/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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How about you guys take your little argument to PM's or something instead of continuing to derail this universal board-wide sticky that is calling to attention some positive news and positive press? That would be soooo awesome k thx bye.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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sunshine
Sin18DwireWuTang
Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 43,592
Loc: higher plane of sex
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#13170970 - 09/09/10 03:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Did anyone call their mom after the trip?
-------------------- One Love True Indeed. Have Good Trips. Mike/sunshine's mom.
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Mycophyte
Outkast
Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 81
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: curenado]
#13172416 - 09/09/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
curenado said: hmmm.....or reality is finally falling
Ohh, it all makes sense now. None of it makes sense!
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byrn0ut
Reclusive
Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 3
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: Dan4th]
#13176164 - 09/10/10 04:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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From the Medscape.com article that talked about the study as well... http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/728185
""All subjects tolerated the treatment sessions well, with no indication of severe anxiety or a 'bad trip'," write the authors."
I've had a handful of bad trips, but I no longer see them as a reason not to enjoy mushrooms. For me that sort of serious anxiety is usually brought on by something that I had suppressed and had been avoiding dealing with. There's no conscious effort to conceal those emotions when you're tripping so they come pouring out and it can be very uncomfortable, sometimes for the full duration of the trip.
A bad trip in my experience is often finding out you had acted selfishly, or been unkind... revealing your SELF to yourself and sometimes you don't like what you see!
Even if the anxiety is proven to be a chemical side effect, that sort of "why do i feel bad" self-examination helps me try to be a better person.
-------------------- Ask me about converting to a mini-martha! .. or, dealing with dry climates.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: byrn0ut]
#13178843 - 09/11/10 06:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't use the term "bad trip"; I use the term "difficult trip".
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: debianlinux]
#13179142 - 09/11/10 08:56 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I remember terms like Psychotomimetic Delusional imprinting Manic obsessions Personality disassociation Schizoform embolism Hope everyone is careful out there. Remember, it always starts with the "ooohing! and the awwwing!"....
But I was relieved to see the dose conversion, and that they were using the lower end of the moderate range. Physical benefit ranges with most whole fruits and decoctions begin at about .5gm to 2gm, including perceieved "psychological" ones, such as the temporary mood elevator effect, that are at the supplement level.
So this demonstrates that it does take a little more to reach the desired or "therapeutic" (if you will) level in conscious/emotional psychological uses. That means that the psychological features are actually the side effect, or secondary effect and the primary one(s) are the physical features which are, in many cases, sub-hallucinogenic.
What I am saying is that if you are sick you can take this medicine, but if you take too much you will see stars (or talk to Jesus or ?)
If you are trying to use this medicine for matters of the head or heart, it gets riskier. So does the chance of the side effects being negative, as you approach doses that many of us take for granted.
That is a contributing big difference in this use. Most of these people never tripped before, and most of us have broader and much higher dose experience. I suppose though that most people would be alright even if they were a little over the threshold.
In all cases, when you use lidocaine for a physical injury you have a crash cart handy in case of side effects. I am sure they have some version of mess management for the incidents that get by the prevention screen, or manifest ex post.
But that was what caught me this round - the thing most people are interested in about psilocybes is actually the side effects of over consumption. Which of course is good
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Results of Harbor-UCLA Psilocybin Study Published Online in Archives of General Psychiatry Today! [Re: curenado]
#13179273 - 09/11/10 09:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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i wanna know why people see eyes , and why i see them eeeevery time i eat the mushroom
-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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