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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Nihilism
    #1313459 - 02/17/03 06:55 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Partial article - go here to read the full article. Surf around - there is lots of other food for thought on this website. Sclorch would love it!

The plain fact is that the scientific examination of human existence strips away every claim for a special status of humanity that would put us above the rest of nature. We discover that we are just one more animal and every human attribute is nothing but the sum total of a chaotic, purposeless evolution. There is no scientific proof of god, no evidence of special meaning for human existence, no set of eternal moral and ethical values, nothing in nature that can be described as good nor as evil.

Most humans find this a frightening conclusion, so frightening it's been given a dirty name, nihilism. Having made the inevitable result of a scientific, rational examination of the human condition an obscenity, the conclusion is dismissed as something too dangerous to even consider and even the philosophers retreat back into the last level of myths. If they are honest enough to admit they are doing so, they justify the retreat with claims that civilization couldn't survive without belief systems where words like justice, rights, fairness, ethics, morals, good and evil are concepts that require no scientific justification.

With the exception of a few tough minded philosophers, philosophy since the enlightenment, and especially since Darwin, has cut itself loose from any serious claim to adherence to scientific empiricism, especially when attempting to address the issues of moral behavior. Some philosophers who do dare to recognized the inevitable nihilistic truths of existence, still choose to avoid examining such truths by claiming that the human mind is incapable of dealing with them.

One such author, John F. Schumaker, in his book Wings of Illusion, proposes that paranormal myths are an evolutionary solution the allows human beings to cope with life by avoiding the dismal reality of our own inevitable death and the lack of a transcendental meaning in our lives. Schumaker argues that reality is so distressing that the human propensity for paranormal beliefs is a form of evolved insanity that allows humans to ignore the dismal truths while getting on with the business of living and propagating.

Adopting an intellectual elitism, Schumaker admits the truth of the nihilistic conclusions and seems to have no trouble with his own sanity as a result, but then suggests that the vast majority of humanity is incapable of surviving the same shock of understanding.




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1313516 - 02/17/03 07:20 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

everyone always says things like "there is no proof of god". well, there is no proof of anything.

nothing can be proven true, only true with the facts that we have, and since we dont have all the facts about the universe or god, or even ourselves, there is no absolute truth.

but my reasons are made up of words and grammar and explanations the human mind rationalizes, so be your own truth.


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We have to answer our own prayers

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1313683 - 02/17/03 08:44 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Damn was that a good essay.  So intense, I think it made me sweat. :tongue:

Everyone should read it (9+ pages)... it's kind of thick, but to rephrase it would make it like 30 pages.

Two thumbs up for Mack Tanner.   


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1313726 - 02/17/03 09:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

WOW! Just what i have been looking for. Thanks.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1313929 - 02/17/03 10:22 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I "knew" you would get your "rocks off" on it. LOL!



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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1313937 - 02/17/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Nice article, it really brought together a lot of things that have been floating around in my head. I truly believe in the nihilistic approach to governing our lives and how we should interact with eachother, we should not base reality on "myths". On the other hand, myths do give individuals hope and reason to go on living, but as long as they are kept to the individual the dangers of them aren't seen. But, the world we live in calls for unified ideologies, and that spells trouble for any rational thought through nihilism.

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1313968 - 02/17/03 10:32 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Does anyone here have a nihilist point of view? I used to spend a lot of time mulling it over, and it was depressing as hell. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't believe in God or inherent moral laws or any type of spirituality. I think religion is probably needed to 'keep people in line' otherwise society would fall apart. I still live a happy life even without hope for heaven or fear of hell, though. Anyone else with me on this?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

Edited by bert (02/17/03 10:33 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1313990 - 02/17/03 10:39 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Who are these people who must be kept in line; and what is the line that they MUST be kept to? Please elaborate.

Are wars caused by large masses of people "kept in line" with their specific culture which is at odds with another culture? Are wars possible if everyone was an individual and rational thinker? Seems propaganda; whether from Bush or Hussein is necessary to "train" people into a collective group-think.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314105 - 02/17/03 11:10 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

'Kept in line' as in following a set of rules. A lot of people would feel lost without religion. I wasn't specifically thinking of wars, but it does apply to that as well. Religious wars have been fought world-wide since time immemorial. I guess you do need a leader to motivate people towards fighting for a cause. If you ask me, religion in and of itself is propaganda wielded by those in power to frighten the confused masses into doing their bidding. I'm not sure if our involvement in Iraq could be considered a religious war. Is this what you are implying?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1314124 - 02/17/03 11:16 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure if our involvement in Iraq could be considered a religious war.

Substitute the word "myth" for religion and then the answer becomes obvious.

The myth that Saddam is bad, while Bush is good; that Islam is bad while Christianity is good; that Saddam is selfish and Bush has no self-interest; that America's nukes are good and North Korea's nukes are bad and so on.

Note to any high-strung readers: I am making NO moral judgement NOR espousing any political views here.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314157 - 02/17/03 11:27 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I think we're gettin a bit off-track here, but I see what you're saying. Oftentimes, the 'truth' lies somewhere between two extremes. Personally, I think the North Korean government has gone completely insane, what with human rights abuses and such. I make my opinions separate from any religious dogma, though. And I think that's what most people should try and do. Openmindedness and compassion are a lot more important than praying 5 times a day or getting baptized.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

Edited by bert (02/17/03 11:28 AM)

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314190 - 02/17/03 11:39 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

After thinking about nihilism for a while, I laid down on my bedroom floor for no reason at all, and stayed there for 15 minutes.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1314194 - 02/17/03 11:42 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I think the North Korean government has gone completely insane...

And the USA's War on Drugs is a model of sanity? Insanity abounds in all nation-states.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314203 - 02/17/03 11:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Heh, yah, I didn't say the War on Drugs wasn't insane. Because it is. I'm tired of living in fear of my own government. But I'd rather live here than North Korea obviously.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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OfflineKB1EWE
WIDE-EYEDCURIOSITY
Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 167
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Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1314277 - 02/17/03 12:20 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

my friend constantly says, "niggers smoke crack"..................

hmmmmmmmm

i never thought this meant anything until one trip....

when i realized that this is his way of being a nihilist

wow :tongue: 


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E A T T H E W O R M...with moderation

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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
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Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314292 - 02/17/03 12:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I don't find it frightening at all.  "God" is the creative/destructive force in the universe that spawned all(through what is refered to as chaotic purposeless evoulution) and will reclaim all.  The only purpose is to exist. 


Anyone like John Lennon's Imagine :wink: 


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: Nihilism [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1314373 - 02/17/03 12:58 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"nothing can be proven true, only true with the facts that we have, and since we dont have all the facts about the universe or god, or even ourselves, there is no absolute truth."
Thats right, we can't prove anything 100%, but we can deal with probability yet uncertainty..


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1314487 - 02/17/03 01:43 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"The plain fact is that the scientific examination of human existence strips away every claim for a special status of humanity that would put us above the rest of nature."

The plain fact is the philosophical examination of human existence gives evidence for every claim for a special status of humanity that would put us above the rest of nature.

Philosophy trumps science.

We win. :tongue: 

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314609 - 02/17/03 02:40 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

M_M: Philosophy trumps science.

Since when have they been at odds?

Maybe you meant: Philosophy trumps scientism.
In that case, I agree.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314758 - 02/17/03 03:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

well, frontal lobes are surely unique attributes, but hardly do they separate or make us superior to the rest of the natural order; everything is equally important, equally unimportant, equally empty, and equally expressive of the "World Soul" - you will find, however, this narcissistic self-hypnosis a common thread of many philosophies, but not of the great Oriental philosophers.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Edited by CosmicJoke (02/17/03 03:33 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1314816 - 02/17/03 03:46 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Since Hobbes and Bacon decided to take philosophy AND science on a mad goose chase. Truth has never recovered from those fatal twists and turns.

Aristotle then, Aristotle now.

I rest my case. ( and in this case it is a case of Kentucky's finest bourbon, "American Blended" )

[raises eyebrows up and down like Groucho Marx]

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1314840 - 02/17/03 03:53 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

HO HO HO HO HE HE HE HE HA HA HA HA

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Please refer us to some of the great works of literature of the animals then.  Or perhaps a review of their syntactical grammar.  Or a simple list of the machines they make that make other machines.

Show us their written history, their religion, or their technology, please.

The gulf is both wide and deep and cannot be spanned.

There were no great Oriental Philosophers, just rugs.

Cheers,

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314889 - 02/17/03 04:17 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314930 - 02/17/03 04:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Aristotle was a dandy.

Humans aren't better than non-conscious beings... we're just more conscious. Sure, it's great... woohoo I'm conscious. Ethics and morals (and scales, for that matter) are all irrelevant to animals... but I know you know that.
Lame deer... can't even think...[/Homer Simpson voice]



So I'm lost... what's going on here?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315107 - 02/17/03 05:13 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Mr. Mushrooms reminds me of my philosophy teacher from high school. Except cooler and drunk. Anyways, machines making machines...hmmm. So what if these machines become 'more concious' than us. Does that make us the animals? Or are we still concious and the machines simply become gods. Are retarded folks regarded as animals? I think there are varying degrees of conciousness, with no set line determining when you achieve it. We are evolving as we speak. In a million years, future humans will look back and
Neo Mr. Mushrooms will be scoffing at the animals once again.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315123 - 02/17/03 05:19 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

can't show you that, but I can show you experiments that may awaken one from the egotistic trance of which i speak, in many formats including Oriental systems -
ah the science of freedom.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1315258 - 02/17/03 05:57 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You are quite right.  Better is a poor word choice.  Then again it was also a small red herring equivocation used by a lover of science so what else would we expect?  Ambiguity can be fun.  You and I both know that.  But it rarely gets us closer to the truth.

The difference between man and the other animals is one of several subjects I have promised but failed to deliver. :frown:

I suppose what I really need to do is to schedule it in and prepare some time to discuss it like I did in the Truth? thread.

Currently it is as shelved as much as your leading us through a discussion on Freddy. :wink:

Cheers,

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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1315267 - 02/17/03 06:04 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

The philosophical argument I am alluding to takes into account other animals than man and their facility with perceptual abstraction AND AI.

Thanks for the compliment. :smile:

Here, have a swig of this bourbon.

Wait.

How old are you?

:grin: :grin: :grin:

:blush:

:cool:

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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315274 - 02/17/03 06:08 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Man, I feel like you just took my brain out, swung it around a couple of times, ring it out and put it back in my head. Nice work. I'm too young for drinking, but too old for thinking.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

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Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1315411 - 02/17/03 07:30 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

If there was no afterlife and we simply no longer existed after death, than I still think I would live my life as I am living it. Either way, what happens happens, and you can't change it- just deal with it.

:grin:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1315663 - 02/17/03 11:21 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

It is the difference between materialism and reductionism. Materialism is good, scientific, and pragmatic. Reductionism is an ego game. If we can show that God resides in the brain, and we can give the exact physical location where our conception of dualities can merge into a conception of unity, that is materialistic, and therefore great. But if we then argue that, therefore, God does not exist, that is reductionism. Quite the contrary is true... God being located in the brain is a direct proof for the existance of God, and it means that every mystic who ever walked the planet was absolutely right.

Edited by Nomad (02/17/03 11:24 PM)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Nihilism [Re: Nomad]
    #1316069 - 02/18/03 05:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

God is a concept in us...

Anything else is a lie.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1316218 - 02/18/03 06:58 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Come on, everything is a concept. "You" are a concept for the thing in the universe which hurts when you burn it. "God" is a concept for the thing in the universe which you experience on 5g, darkness, silence.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Nihilism [Re: Nomad]
    #1316314 - 02/18/03 08:09 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Fine.... God is ONLY a concept.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1316372 - 02/18/03 08:27 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Cool enough for me.  :laugh: 

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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1316449 - 02/18/03 08:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"I use the term myth to describe any belief that effects human existence, behavior, or history that can not be demonstrated by empirical evidence. A myth is not necessarily a false belief, it's a belief that can't be falsified using the scientific method."

Myth cannot be "anything that can't be falsified by science." Because that would mean that my subjective experience is a myth.

But I still like the way this Mack Tanner jiggles. And many ideas in there aren't inherently bad, if not inherently misleading. :grin: 


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

Edited by David_Scape (02/18/03 05:13 PM)

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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
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Re: Nihilism [Re: David_Scape]
    #1316786 - 02/18/03 11:41 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think that your subjective experience can be proved by empirical evidence. It would require your subjective experience to interpret the emperical data which would be a conundrum in my opinion.

A limitation of proper conceptualisations, language, and perception lead us to an infinite experience of meaningless conundrums.

Joshua


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The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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InvisibleGRTUD
INFP
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1319481 - 02/19/03 11:59 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The plain fact is that the scientific examination of human existence strips away every claim for a special status of humanity that would put us above the rest of nature. We discover that we are just one more animal and every human attribute is nothing but the sum total of a chaotic, purposeless evolution. There is no scientific proof of god, no evidence of special meaning for human existence, no set of eternal moral and ethical values, nothing in nature that can be described as good nor as evil.




Well I always felt that what made humankind different from other life forms, was that we persue the idea of God. No other life form has errected monuments to their idea of what and who God is and what that idea might mean to an afterlife. Animals use tools, this opposable thumb notion never impressed me nor did the walking upright fact. We are not very distinguishable from other life forms other than the pyramids, cathedrals, tombs and graveyards. Those other creatures aren't even trying! When's the last time you visited a church built by squirrels? (Shroomism may not reply to this question because I'm sure on some planet, from the 2nd season of Star Trek, the animals there did build cathedrals.) Maybe the animals are smarter, not women!


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"New shit has come to light..."

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Nihilism [Re: GRTUD]
    #1320514 - 02/19/03 06:41 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Oh great... [/sarcasm]

Now religion is the measuring stick of humanness?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinenubious
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1320768 - 02/19/03 11:16 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Wow. I don't know what else to say. Wow. Oh wait, here's my arguement:
What buddy in the real long article said is 99% solid, but how do you explain things that can't be explained? His phrase stating that god was neccassary to explain the rising and setting of the sun so the people at that time could concentrate on things like Deer migration and corn scheduling and what not... damn good point, but what about things in society today that can't be proven? I'm talking things like David Blaine floating on the streets, people getting stabbed 19 times in the chest and living to talk about it, or the numerous accounts in history of "magick" that defies the science we claim to hold as the utmost truth...

There's some phreaky shit out there that we can't explain.. I don't know what I believe and I'm easily persuaded by things paranormal, but at the same time, I feel I kind of have to be...


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Nihilism [Re: nubious]
    #1321492 - 02/20/03 06:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

99% solid? His definition of Myth(the word the article is practically based on) is flawed. I dont know about you but that tells me the structure is weaker than 99%. :grin:

"People getting stabbed 19 times in the chest and living to talk about it,"

Those had to have been flabby stabs...
Any man who knows how to stab makes long deep gashes at the chest and throat. The chest is such a tiny area when it comes to a man throwing a knife or shank in your direction. Even I, a fair modestly controlled individual, whould have nailed the solar plexus a couple of times. Was this man stabed in front of hospital? :tongue: :tongue:   


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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1321508 - 02/20/03 07:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Have you read DMT: The Spirit Molecule?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Nihilism [Re: nubious]
    #1321511 - 02/20/03 07:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I can SHOW you how David Blaine "floated"... I used to be seriously into magic tricks when I was in high school (NO, I didn't do shows... just a hobby). Blaine's "floating" stunt is a combination of performance and camera tricks (they showed this on FOX's expose on magicians a few years back).


but how do you explain things that can't be explained?

I don't think you're understanding correctly... you're assuming there is a need to explain the "unexplainable" and/or that there are such things.

Being able to be comfortable with unknowns is a cornerstone of my personal philosophy. It's a terrific stress-reducer... even in dark times. Like last year, my roommate flipped out and tried to kill me and a friend (literally- I'll spare you the details)... though I faced hardships because of the incident (broken this... broken that... money problems... court dates interfering with my schedule...), I was still happy. Sure, there were times that I felt like crap... but those moments were fleeting. As a shroomerite here recently said, "Pain is inevitable, suffering isn't."


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Nihilism [Re: David_Scape]
    #1321516 - 02/20/03 07:06 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

DS: 99% solid? His definition of Myth(the word the article is practically based on) is flawed. I dont know about you but that tells me the structure is weaker than 99%.

He uses modifiers to help compensate for his lack of sufficient terminology.
SECULAR myths
PARANORMAL myths

I thought he got his point across... though I agree, it wasn't perfect.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1321682 - 02/20/03 08:18 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I guess that many of his examples of secular myths might as well be thought of as such. But his original definition is still flawed, because subjective experience would fall under this category even though it exists. The major portion of his point still stands despite this though...



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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1322488 - 02/20/03 01:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Oh great... [/sarcasm]

Now religion is the measuring stick of humanness?




That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  :cool:


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Nihilism [Re: GRTUD]
    #1322695 - 02/20/03 02:50 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So you're saying that nihilists are less human than priests?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

Edited by bert (02/20/03 02:52 PM)

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Offlinenubious
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Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1323206 - 02/20/03 06:15 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Unexplainable? How's this - a schizophrenic hears voices - the doctor doesn't know why, but they know that there's activity in parts of the brain that aren't really mapped. These voices are so real to the person that they can cause the reality we live in to blend with the one they hear. Medication can make these voices go away.
The following is an excert from this page on schizophrenia...

Hallucinations and illusions are disturbances of perception that are common in people suffering from schizophrenia. Hallucinations are perceptions that occur without connection to an appropriate source. Although hallucinations can occur in any sensory form ? auditory (sound), visual (sight), tactile (touch), gustatory (taste), and olfactory (smell) ? hearing voices that other people do not hear is the most common type of hallucination in schizophrenia. Voices may describe the patient?s activities, carry on a conversation, warn of impending dangers, or even issue orders to the individual. Illusions, on the other hand, occur when a sensory stimulus is present but is incorrectly interpreted by the individual.

Because we know so LITTLE about the brain, we don't know it's full capabilities. Warning of impending danger? It's happened....


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Nihilism [Re: nubious]
    #1323981 - 02/21/03 04:56 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I really don't know what you're trying to argue here...

How about this: you connect the dots for me (nihilism---->schizophrenia) and I'll get back to you when I understand your thesis.


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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1327898 - 02/23/03 01:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So you're saying that nihilists are less human than priests?




No not at all. I merely commented on the part of the article that (apparently) sums up the thesis of such beliefs, which stated that there was no observable difference between humanity and the rest of life on this planet. I can't agree based on a very simple observation.


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