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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1314816 - 02/17/03 03:46 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Since Hobbes and Bacon decided to take philosophy AND science on a mad goose chase. Truth has never recovered from those fatal twists and turns.

Aristotle then, Aristotle now.

I rest my case. ( and in this case it is a case of Kentucky's finest bourbon, "American Blended" )

[raises eyebrows up and down like Groucho Marx]


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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1314840 - 02/17/03 03:53 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

HO HO HO HO HE HE HE HE HA HA HA HA

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Please refer us to some of the great works of literature of the animals then.  Or perhaps a review of their syntactical grammar.  Or a simple list of the machines they make that make other machines.

Show us their written history, their religion, or their technology, please.

The gulf is both wide and deep and cannot be spanned.

There were no great Oriental Philosophers, just rugs.

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314889 - 02/17/03 04:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1314930 - 02/17/03 04:31 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Aristotle was a dandy.

Humans aren't better than non-conscious beings... we're just more conscious. Sure, it's great... woohoo I'm conscious. Ethics and morals (and scales, for that matter) are all irrelevant to animals... but I know you know that.
Lame deer... can't even think...[/Homer Simpson voice]



So I'm lost... what's going on here?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315107 - 02/17/03 05:13 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Mr. Mushrooms reminds me of my philosophy teacher from high school. Except cooler and drunk. Anyways, machines making machines...hmmm. So what if these machines become 'more concious' than us. Does that make us the animals? Or are we still concious and the machines simply become gods. Are retarded folks regarded as animals? I think there are varying degrees of conciousness, with no set line determining when you achieve it. We are evolving as we speak. In a million years, future humans will look back and
Neo Mr. Mushrooms will be scoffing at the animals once again.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315123 - 02/17/03 05:19 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

can't show you that, but I can show you experiments that may awaken one from the egotistic trance of which i speak, in many formats including Oriental systems -
ah the science of freedom.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1315258 - 02/17/03 05:57 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

You are quite right.  Better is a poor word choice.  Then again it was also a small red herring equivocation used by a lover of science so what else would we expect?  Ambiguity can be fun.  You and I both know that.  But it rarely gets us closer to the truth.

The difference between man and the other animals is one of several subjects I have promised but failed to deliver. :frown:

I suppose what I really need to do is to schedule it in and prepare some time to discuss it like I did in the Truth? thread.

Currently it is as shelved as much as your leading us through a discussion on Freddy. :wink:

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Nihilism [Re: bert]
    #1315267 - 02/17/03 06:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

The philosophical argument I am alluding to takes into account other animals than man and their facility with perceptual abstraction AND AI.

Thanks for the compliment. :smile:

Here, have a swig of this bourbon.

Wait.

How old are you?

:grin: :grin: :grin:

:blush:

:cool:


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Nihilism [Re: ]
    #1315274 - 02/17/03 06:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Man, I feel like you just took my brain out, swung it around a couple of times, ring it out and put it back in my head. Nice work. I'm too young for drinking, but too old for thinking.


--------------------
Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1315411 - 02/17/03 07:30 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

If there was no afterlife and we simply no longer existed after death, than I still think I would live my life as I am living it. Either way, what happens happens, and you can't change it- just deal with it.

:grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1315663 - 02/17/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

It is the difference between materialism and reductionism. Materialism is good, scientific, and pragmatic. Reductionism is an ego game. If we can show that God resides in the brain, and we can give the exact physical location where our conception of dualities can merge into a conception of unity, that is materialistic, and therefore great. But if we then argue that, therefore, God does not exist, that is reductionism. Quite the contrary is true... God being located in the brain is a direct proof for the existance of God, and it means that every mystic who ever walked the planet was absolutely right.


Edited by Nomad (02/17/03 11:24 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nihilism [Re: Nomad]
    #1316069 - 02/18/03 05:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

God is a concept in us...

Anything else is a lie.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1316218 - 02/18/03 06:58 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Come on, everything is a concept. "You" are a concept for the thing in the universe which hurts when you burn it. "God" is a concept for the thing in the universe which you experience on 5g, darkness, silence.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nihilism [Re: Nomad]
    #1316314 - 02/18/03 08:09 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Fine.... God is ONLY a concept.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1316372 - 02/18/03 08:27 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Cool enough for me.  :laugh: 


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1316449 - 02/18/03 08:57 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"I use the term myth to describe any belief that effects human existence, behavior, or history that can not be demonstrated by empirical evidence. A myth is not necessarily a false belief, it's a belief that can't be falsified using the scientific method."

Myth cannot be "anything that can't be falsified by science." Because that would mean that my subjective experience is a myth.

But I still like the way this Mack Tanner jiggles. And many ideas in there aren't inherently bad, if not inherently misleading. :grin: 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


Edited by David_Scape (02/18/03 05:13 PM)


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Nihilism [Re: David_Scape]
    #1316786 - 02/18/03 11:41 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think that your subjective experience can be proved by empirical evidence. It would require your subjective experience to interpret the emperical data which would be a conundrum in my opinion.

A limitation of proper conceptualisations, language, and perception lead us to an infinite experience of meaningless conundrums.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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InvisibleGRTUD
INFP
Male

Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 270
Loc: United States
Re: Nihilism [Re: Swami]
    #1319481 - 02/19/03 11:59 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The plain fact is that the scientific examination of human existence strips away every claim for a special status of humanity that would put us above the rest of nature. We discover that we are just one more animal and every human attribute is nothing but the sum total of a chaotic, purposeless evolution. There is no scientific proof of god, no evidence of special meaning for human existence, no set of eternal moral and ethical values, nothing in nature that can be described as good nor as evil.




Well I always felt that what made humankind different from other life forms, was that we persue the idea of God. No other life form has errected monuments to their idea of what and who God is and what that idea might mean to an afterlife. Animals use tools, this opposable thumb notion never impressed me nor did the walking upright fact. We are not very distinguishable from other life forms other than the pyramids, cathedrals, tombs and graveyards. Those other creatures aren't even trying! When's the last time you visited a church built by squirrels? (Shroomism may not reply to this question because I'm sure on some planet, from the 2nd season of Star Trek, the animals there did build cathedrals.) Maybe the animals are smarter, not women!


--------------------
"New shit has come to light..."


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nihilism [Re: GRTUD]
    #1320514 - 02/19/03 06:41 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Oh great... [/sarcasm]

Now religion is the measuring stick of humanness?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Nihilism [Re: Sclorch]
    #1320768 - 02/19/03 11:16 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Wow. I don't know what else to say. Wow. Oh wait, here's my arguement:
What buddy in the real long article said is 99% solid, but how do you explain things that can't be explained? His phrase stating that god was neccassary to explain the rising and setting of the sun so the people at that time could concentrate on things like Deer migration and corn scheduling and what not... damn good point, but what about things in society today that can't be proven? I'm talking things like David Blaine floating on the streets, people getting stabbed 19 times in the chest and living to talk about it, or the numerous accounts in history of "magick" that defies the science we claim to hold as the utmost truth...

There's some phreaky shit out there that we can't explain.. I don't know what I believe and I'm easily persuaded by things paranormal, but at the same time, I feel I kind of have to be...


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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