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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: the meditation thread [Re: Kickle]
    #13099890 - 08/25/10 12:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

thanks dude sometimes i feel like im just talking to myself here, oh wait, I Am! :wink:


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Offlineand yet it moves
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Registered: 08/21/10
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Re: the meditation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #13100000 - 08/25/10 12:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i wrote this down last night: "i believe inner peace can be achieved by giving up my sanity and giving in to the voices in my head instead of fighting them."

my new favorite mantra/visualization/meditative aid is to quiet the voices (from eckert tolle); if you imagine your thoughts as a mouse and you are a cat perched outside a hole in the wall, waiting for the mouse, it will never appear.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: the meditation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #13100042 - 08/25/10 12:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1nfinity said:
thanks dude sometimes i feel like im just talking to myself here, oh wait, I Am! :wink:




heh
despite agreeing with you, I think a sitting practice is valuable
1) for cultivating the beginning stages of awakening
2) for cultivating concentration

What happens with the concentration is unbelievably important though and the cultivation of it is a separate matter from how to effectively utilize it. IMO your directions are a good way to see how to use concentration as they emphasize looking at the self with it.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: the meditation thread [Re: Kickle]
    #13103741 - 08/26/10 01:20 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah attention/concentration is very important up to a point as attention & concentration can distract from this recognition if they are completely absorbed in objects, so its good to use attention as its such a powerful tool it would be insane to not train it somewhat, but its also about using attention to go beyond attention, using attention to find that awareness which is beyond the movement of attention, so its like effort to find what's effortless, meditation is such a subtle phenomena.

I do sit but i wouldn't say its a prerequisite as anything phenomenal can not ultimately be 'it'
There's no path so i can't advocate a path, apart from maybe 'seeing there is no path' as the path :wink:

So its like using attention to see the true nature of your Self, but once you see your Self* then you see that you don't actually need to use attention to Be That, its always here.

*by this i mean non objectively seeing/intangible seeing


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Offlineexoskeletal
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Re: the meditation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #13103818 - 08/26/10 02:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm glad that you guy's can quiet your mind for hour's a day. I certainly cant.

Is there a certain art to shutting down the mind or is it more of a practice makes perfect kind of situation?


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Offlinedeff
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: the meditation thread [Re: exoskeletal]
    #13104638 - 08/26/10 10:12 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

don't try and suppress the mind, instead just watch it impartially

if you stop feeding thoughts with attraction, aversion, self identification etc then they start to diminish naturally

suppressing your thoughts intentionally though - you might as well be an inanimate object then - the goal is awareness not lack of brain activity

so i think it's fine if there's some thoughts but whats important is that you don't associate the thoughts as "yourself" or that you lose mindfulness by getting swept inside the ball of thoughts - watch from a distance

and of course this gets easier with practice, like anything. meditation is one of those things with an initial steep learning curve for most but then it becomes effortless and very enjoyable imo. it's something you have to make an initial investment in that may not be particularly enjoyable at first, but then the fruit of it (or fruitlessness of it) is well worth it


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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
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Re: the meditation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #13112038 - 08/27/10 10:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1nfinity said:
Quote:

Scantraxx said:

Quote:

1nfinity said:
Yeah, i was just thinking about this stuff and it came to me that the true state of being although appearing as effortless, is not the opposite of the state of effort, its beyond effort or effortless, so the feeling of effort or practice can arise within that being with no contradiction whatsoever




Why do you think practise is bad? Take a hobby for example, playing guitar, boring as hell when I first started, couldn't play anything got frusturated, but stuck through it, now I love it! Avoiding effort just sounds like laziness.

Also, if it is effortless, have you achieved the 'true state of being'?




I don't think practice is bad at all i practice lots of things, i exercise regularly, i eat healthy, i learn musical instruments etc... its just that i see the highest goal of meditation as being realization of your eternal being, and to practice for something which is eternal makes no sense, as if something is eternal its already present in every situation of life.

If there could be a practice it would be seeing through this false identity that thinks it can practice to achieve it, that practice i would advocate all day long, question your identity, find out who you are. You are already who you are so its not practicing for something you don't have yet, so not really a practice. Which also answers the second question, i haven't achieved anything, what has happened is effort was exaughsted to the point that i saw "I" could never ever achieve this state of pure being, that it was already here all along, so i gave up & what is always here, is just here.

'Just Being' is the greatest meditation there is, yet our minds want set goals, something to do, something to achieve, something to become




I hear what you're saying, but it seems like you think you have got meditation 'figured out'. I'm just saying, if you turn your life into a meditative style, I feel you are going to miss out on the beneifts of a sitting practise (which are now scientifically proven) Thats just me though, I enjoy practising, I think you have negative connotations around practise, otherwise, you wouldn't see it as a 'thing' to achieve something, sure you could probably live in a meditative way while being concious, but you aren't going to reach any of the states that are proven from sitting in meditation, physical distractions will always grab your attention, no matter what, in sitting, less to be distracted by etc, I don't even see sitting as 'something' I see it more as a 'nothing' when you go there, you are detaching from physical and made man things, like the concept of 'practise'.

And I would assume most people that are practising meditation, take that into their lives anyway (If not there motives are probably strange) so I'm not having a dig or anything, I just feel that you are missing out and make reasons as to why you don't need/want to meditate. But you did say you do sit so what I am saying isn't entirely true to you.

The fact I can escape/relax while meditating is enough for me to continue 'practise' practise seems like a bad word to call it, practise usually involves effort, meditation I think shouldn't be an effort (In the begining most will see it as an effort, only because it is uncomfortable, but once you push past that stage it is effortless) we are always 'doing' so regardless, any meditative approach is going to be 'doing' whether you call it practise or not, so what is the difference between reaching meditative states in closed eye sitting or open eyed conciousness? All I can really say to that is distractions will ultimately be the biggest factor when meditating in a concious physical state.

I cannot relax while in waking conciousness with my eyes open, no one can (relax as much as eyes closed that is) the brain is being stimulated by the outer enviroment, when you sit and close your eyes you are making that outer enviroment less existent and making your own internal enviroment more real.

Also, you say 'just being' is the best meditation there is, I do agree, but who do you think is better at 'just being' a monk that has sat in meditated for 10,000 hours or someone that has just made their lifestyle more meditative?


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: the meditation thread [Re: exoskeletal]
    #13127679 - 08/31/10 05:49 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

exoskeletal said:

Is there a certain art to shutting down the mind or is it more of a practice makes perfect kind of situation?




There is an art to it, i really like that way of putting it, its not so mental
Its indescribable really, just like art

Art is beauty
So can you learn to see beauty in things?
Or do you unlearn to then see that everything is already beautiful?

Beauty is the nature of 'this'
'This' is the universe, and universe means 'one song'
The act of singing, or composition, is an expression of beauty, art


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Edited by Chronic7 (08/31/10 09:36 AM)


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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 688
Last seen: 10 years, 29 days
Re: the meditation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #13132655 - 09/01/10 08:23 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Meditated for an hour and 20 minutes today, in one session, which is the longest I have been able to achieve, time wasn't really something that mattered though. When I came back to reality it felt as if my body had been asleep, haha really nice feeling!

The main reason was I have a blocked eustchian(sp?) tube and really loud tinitus, that helped me escape it for a while haha!

Come on guys, need more updates!


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