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OfflineDemon
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A word to those in hard times
    #1313059 - 02/17/03 02:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I came across a verse while reading Crowley's "Liber AL vel Legis (The Book of the Law)". It sums up the fact that good things happpen in life, and bad things happen. But we musn't let the bad block the good. I hope you take as much from it as I do.

Chapter II, verse 9: Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains.



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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Demon]
    #1313069 - 02/17/03 02:51 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Kinda eerie coming from a Cenobite, but..

It's true: the Good outweighs the Bad by far. It's just that when you're stuck in the slums of life it's hard to see that. Try to see something of beauty, albeit a memory, and hold onto that. Try & find strenght within yourself & remain positive.

When you cannot see anything positive in this world at all, regardless of your circumstances, you are likely in a state of DEPRESSION, which is a chemical imbalance doctors usually are quite capable of treating with pharms or CBT sessions.

It's like tripping: hang on, things will get better!


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Invisible40oz
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Asante]
    #1313077 - 02/17/03 03:01 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be sad..


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OfflineboOM
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Demon]
    #1313083 - 02/17/03 03:07 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

" If I could tell the world just one thing, it would be that we're okay and not to worry, cause worrying is useless in times like these"


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OfflineJackal
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: boO]
    #1313090 - 02/17/03 03:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Agreed, worrying about something you cannot change is pointless - Let It Be.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Asante]
    #1313241 - 02/17/03 06:11 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

you are likely in a state of DEPRESSION, which is a chemical imbalance
 



Depression isn`t alway's a chemical imbalance. As a psychology major/pre-med minor i have to do a short internship at a outpatient clinic and alot of the people we deal with have a psychological cause for there depression. Alot of doctor's have made it standard to prescribe meds to anyone they think is depressed, causing everybody to think that depression is just a  chemical imbalance. Sometimes this is the case ,but not alway's. If you are suffering from depression it's a good idea to see psychologist or psychiatrist instead of a G.P. doctor because they are alot more likely to be able to treat your depression correctly. :grin: 


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Some climb
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OfflineMydriasis
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: chinacat72]
    #1313381 - 02/17/03 08:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think the revelation in the scientific community that almost anything going on in the brain is measurable by chemical balances have created some confusion about depression,. I mean, if you have a state of depression going on, your serotonin levels are probably low, however, this does of course not mean that serotonin levels are the reason for depression, rather a symptom.. It seems, however, like there are 'clinical' depressions, where a person can really use SSRI's,.. I had a bad case of depression last year, and was finaly prescribed to Fluoxetin, wich is I believe, what is in prozac, and it really helped me get a new perspective on things, and i havent used it since the first 3 months I had it. But, in my opinion, if a clinical depression is when you cant really say whats getting you down, then its possible to argue that there's just so much panic in this phase of history, that that might as well be the reason you cant put your finger on whats going on...

Anyway, I think this forum is a great initiative, clearly showing that there are some very responible, serious people around here... I think this may help someone in need sometime.. Any user of illegal, or rather publicly disliked drugs, is probably under more stress than they might know..


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Mydriasis]
    #1313570 - 02/17/03 09:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I like the way you put low serotonin level's as a symptom instead of a cause.
This can be true with many cases and low serotonin can be the cause of some to.
There is however no reason to think that everyone who is depressed has low serotonin levels. In fact i think it is quite evident that this isn't the case after watching how people respond to SSRI's. Alot are helped by the increased availability of serotonin that reuptake inhibition causes, but some react to the meds as if they had a enough serotonin to begin with and now they have to much.
Some people just need some therapy to deal with the problem that is manifesting itself through depression.
Some just have chemical imbalences for no aparent reason and need to be balenced through meds. I have several family member's who are this way.
They respond very well to SSRI treatment.
I agree that this forum was an excallent idea.  :grin:Hopefully it will become a safe ,nonjudgemental place were people can get opinion's and idea's about there problem's.  :smile: 


--------------------
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Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (02/17/03 12:55 PM)


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Asante]
    #1314027 - 02/17/03 12:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

> a chemical imbalance doctors usually are quite capable of treating
> with pharms or CBT sessions.

Wow, that seems a little drastic, don't you think?

'owowowI'm happy I'm happy life is beautiful please stop...!'

:smirk: 


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OfflineMydriasis
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: chinacat72]
    #1314622 - 02/17/03 04:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Chinacat..
Thank you for enlightening me somewhat, my presumtions may outwieght my knowledge in this area!

Again, great initiative, shows real engagement!


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Xibalba]
    #1315649 - 02/18/03 01:05 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

LOL with a cherry on top!
When I said "CBT session" I really did mean: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Your alternative might be viable too, but only in a small % of the population.

CBT is one of the most effective therapies for a host of psychological problems. Alot of the time pharms equal bandaids whereas CBT offers the cure for a problem.

About "Chemical imbalance", lemme go deeper on that. I basically said "Pharms OR Therapy" because I believe the coin has two sides:
1: Chemical imbalance may cause loop of negative thinking
2: Loop of negative thinking may cause chemical imbalance
It's like the chicken & the egg thing: what came first? In any depression both are present but the cause (psychological/physiological) might be different. To make matters more complicated: "Psychological" depression may be improved with Pharms and "Physiological" depression may improve with Therapy.

Still further: some research -seems to- point in the direction that most people who get into a state of depression are somewhat prone to it, whilst others are incapable of it. No refs unfortunately: read it in a newspaper article in the health section.

I'd say if good, clean, effective therapy can help you as good or better than pharms, then by all means go for that. There are -roughly spoken- 4 kinds of antidepressants: Serotonin acting (like prozac) Noradrenalin acting (like ludiomil) Dopamine acting (like wellbutrin/zyban) and combinations thereof (like remeron, st. John's Wort and MAOIs) They all are drugs in that if they are tolerated well they basically make you feel "less depressed" = "more euphoric" = "high".

Unfortunately no good, clean, universally well-tolerated antidepressants exist today, and I strongly believe the invention of a really good antidepressant (or euphoriant, basically the same to me but a nono word for doctors) will be one of the greatest discoveries of the 21th century.

I've got bouts of depression, really deep ones. Wheter it's Psychology or Biology to me is irrelevant: both are present. Screw the chicken & eat the egg. Allthough pot offers great relief (psychologically or physiologically: both are possible with THC) I opt for CBT, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to try & rid myself of it. Should this be insufficient the next stop will probably be SSRIs, allthough I'm reluctant since all antidepressants are cardiotoxic and I'm recovering from a heart infarction.

Depression is HELL, I know from my own experience. Looking at the world around me I strongly believe the majority of the population is in a mild state of depression. (read up on it in "The Hedonistic Imperative" as found on www.hedweb.com or something, do it offline because its lotsa text and food for thought too) I get huge bursts of it but know, even at the very depth of it which is suicidal urges, that it's just a clouding of consciousness, nothing more. Anyone who has had, for instance, a bad trip can vouch for this: Hell was 100% Real back then, but now you're merrily LOLling along & can't even grasp the intensity of how bad it was then.

So imbalance or negative events or thoughts: remember it's just a clouding of consciousness & try to fix it with positivity, prefarably with nice thoughts, attitudes & activities, but only after that with  :smile: pills.  I guess alot of us Shroomerites use nonpsychedelics and grass to combat a certain degree of dysphoria: i believe to read that between the lines of alot of posts here. 


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Asante]
    #1316010 - 02/18/03 07:05 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:



In any depression both are present but the cause (psychological/physiological) might be different.
 



Can you provide a link or some VALID data supporting this. This is my 4th year as a psychology student and i have never seen  any valid research that say's ALL cases of depression are caused by or accompanied with a chemical imbalence.
Most of the reseach we see here at my university support's that a very high percentage of cases of depression are caused or accompanied by an imbalence ,but not ALL are.Two types of depression-grief depression and learned helplessness are thought to not involve any chemical imbalence. These two are also the least responsive to any type of antidepressant therapy. If they are left untreated long enough(4-12mo.) they can turn into major depression which will cause a chemical imbalence as a symptom. We have a long way to go before we fully understand depression and all it's causes and manifestation's. The advent of Prozac gave the world the impression that the cure for depression was found and the cause was something as simple as just an irregularity of neurochemistery.
It was true for some people ,but not for other's :confused:
As far as Cognative Behavoral Therapy it is a wonderful breakthrough in therapy.
So much more affective and quicker than the old psychoanalytic method's.
I take it your from Europe as they usually call it CBT and here  we call it CT. :grin:
 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (02/18/03 10:30 AM)


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Anonymous #1

Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Asante]
    #1316708 - 02/18/03 12:55 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: 40oz]
    #1317003 - 02/18/03 03:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be sad..

This is highly simplistic advice as we are not digital robots. I would wager that every family that lost loved ones during the 9/11 was sad for quite some time and that none of them "chose" to be sad in the common defintion of the word.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Demon]
    #1317008 - 02/18/03 03:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Remember all ye that existence is pure joy...

One can only "remember" that what you once knew. As I have never known that all existence is pure joy (like having your wife raped and killed), it is impossible to "remember" this "fact".


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: boO]
    #1317015 - 02/18/03 03:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If I could tell the world just one thing, it would be that we're okay...

The author of the '70's bestseller, "I'm OK; You're OK" committed suicide.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Swami]
    #1317767 - 02/18/03 09:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe he came down from his emotional high and got one good look at the 80's?

Oh right, this is the serious forum.


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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: Swami]
    #1317837 - 02/18/03 10:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Everything in life is a choice. Yes, the 9/11 famlies choose to be sad. Perspective = key


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: A word to those in hard times [Re: chinacat72]
    #1317997 - 02/19/03 01:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Link? Sorry, got it out of a dutch book by Dr. Diekstra & he's notorious for swiping stuff & other copyright violations.

But then again, to put it in Commander Data's terms: "Define Imbalance".
Every thought etc. has an effect on brain chemistry. Patterns of thought lead to neuroplastic changes in brain structure (learning stuff; the vital part of CBT/CT which btw seems alot more acceptable then ECT) with aquiring new skills as a result. A learning process of negativity might "grow" a brain into a tendency to for instance depression. Take away the negative input & you're left with an imbalanced brain where it comes to emotion. So I'd say the prolonged period of grief (4-12 months are also typical CBT/CT durations for "hard cases", and becoming either cured or sick neuroplastically is basically the same) So the grief might be called a Chemical imbalance, followed by a "structural imbalance"
(just using common sense & my general nerdness :grin:)

"spend a long time consistently in one psychological place and it'll stick to some degree". . .  Might give a whole new outlook on HPPD/Flashbacks!


Gee Mr. Mushrooms! Thanxa lot! 5 Shrooms is all one needs for a strong trip! :grin: 


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