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Offlinesve
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When the genus is changed, is the species name changed?
    #13125615 - 08/30/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

When a mushroom is moved from one genus to another, does the species name also change or is it kept the same?


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: sve] * 1
    #13125904 - 08/30/10 07:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Sometimes.  The species name is usually retained unless there is a conflict, such as, if the species name is already established as a valid and distinct taxon in that genus, then a new species name must be given to the species being introduced to the genus so that there are not two taxa with the same name.

For example, the species Weraroa novae-zelandiae is actually a Psilocybe.  However, there is already a different species named Psilocybe novae-zelandiae, so a new name has been proposed for the secotioid species that needs to be placed in the same genus.  The new name is Psilocybe weraroa, aptly referring to the old generic dumping ground for secotioid fungi, which this species used to be the lectotype for.

Furthermore, in Latin, words have a gender- either masculine, feminine, or neuter (neither).  The gender of the species is supposed to match the gender of the genus it is contained in.  Thus, species names may often be retained, but if they are placed into a different genus with a different gender, then the species name must be masculinized, feminized, or neutralized, depending.

For example, the genus Coprinus is masculine because it ends with "us", so when Coprinus atramentarius was placed into the genus Coprinopsis (a feminine name), the species name became Coprinopsis atramentaria.

More examples of Latin gender endings:

Masculine:
-us
-er
-is
-r

Feminine:
-a
-ra
-is
-ris

Neuter:
-um
-rum
-e
-re


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InvisibleBobzimmer
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13125933 - 08/30/10 07:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, so that's how that works! Thanks!:salute:


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Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.


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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #13126460 - 08/30/10 09:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, thank you!


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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: sve]
    #13126542 - 08/30/10 09:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Very useful data Curecat, thanks!


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13126718 - 08/30/10 10:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for feeding the inner geek in me Curecat. Very informative!


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Invisiblecaphillkid
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13126988 - 08/30/10 11:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
Sometimes.  The species name is usually retained unless there is a conflict, such as, if the species name is already established as a valid and distinct taxon in that genus, then a new species name must be given to the species being introduced to the genus so that there are not two taxa with the same name.

For example, the species Weraroa novae-zelandiae is actually a Psilocybe.  However, there is already a different species named Psilocybe novae-zelandiae, so a new name has been proposed for the secotioid species that needs to be placed in the same genus.  The new name is Psilocybe weraroa, aptly referring to the old generic dumping ground for secotioid fungi, which this species used to be the lectotype for.

Furthermore, in Latin, words have a gender- either masculine, feminine, or neuter (neither).  The gender of the species is supposed to match the gender of the genus it is contained in.  Thus, species names may often be retained, but if they are placed into a different genus with a different gender, then the species name must be masculinized, feminized, or neutralized, depending.

For example, the genus Coprinus is masculine because it ends with "us", so when Coprinus atramentarius was placed into the genus Coprinopsis (a feminine name), the species name became Coprinopsis atramentaria.

More examples of Latin gender endings:

Masculine:
-us
-er
-is
-r

Feminine:
-a
-ra
-is
-ris

Neuter:
-um
-rum
-e
-re




So, the genus is the noun and the species follows the adjective form.  Some of your Latin endings can be multiple genders and multiple cases.  "Opsis" is also Greek, not Latin.  The wikipedia article does a decent job of explain how Latin nouns and adjectives decline.  All of this modern naming is made up Latin and Greek endings mixed together and shouldn't be confused with actual Latin or Ancient Greek.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: caphillkid]
    #13127025 - 08/30/10 11:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, it is "botanical latin" and "botanical greek".


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Invisiblecaphillkid
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13127028 - 08/30/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing you said was wrong, except for generalizing some of the suffixes.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: caphillkid]
    #13127168 - 08/31/10 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Indeed, I asked for any additions to these guidelines on another site and Tom Volk said:

Quote:

There are a lot of exceptions to the ending genders. -loma is always neuter. -cybe is always masculine. etc. It's way more complicated than it needs to be. This is why Latin is a dead language.




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Offlinesve
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13127191 - 08/31/10 12:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This is why Latin is a dead language.




:sad:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: sve]
    #13127249 - 08/31/10 01:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Spoken by a man who teaches the subject.  He would know; and personally, I have to agree that these rules are rather unusual...


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Offlinesve
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13127292 - 08/31/10 01:20 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

That's what made Latin so lovable. I kind of have a thing for useless obscurity.


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Invisiblecaphillkid
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Re: When the genus is changed, is the species name changed? [Re: CureCat]
    #13128809 - 08/31/10 12:43 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
Indeed, I asked for any additions to these guidelines on another site and Tom Volk said:

Quote:

There are a lot of exceptions to the ending genders. -loma is always neuter. -cybe is always masculine. etc. It's way more complicated than it needs to be. This is why Latin is a dead language.







I can't comment on Tom Volk's knowledge, but "loma" and "cybe" are Greek not Latin.  My beef with the naming is that everything gets mixed and then people describe everything as Latin.  Latin isn't dead because it is complicated, it's actually a very straightforward language to learn.  The words follow patterns depending upon case in the sentence and once you learn these declensions and conjugations (for verbs) it comes down to learning vocabulary.  I realize that botanical Latin and Greek need to be simplified for modern use, but it seems to confuse the two languages together.  That's not to say that ancient Romans didn't incorporate Greek nouns into their language, they did, but these words usually followed the Greek declensions not Latin, even though it is generally acceptable today to apply Latin endings to these Greek words.
  I think learning Latin was a huge "bonus" (<-- Latin) for me now that I am studying mushrooms, and I wish more people studied the language.  It's very applicable today in so many ways, not just for the sciences.


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