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geokills
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California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana / Cannabis 4
#13125311 - 08/30/10 06:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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California voters will soon be going to the polls to make a statement on the personal use of cannabis. If you live in California, please make sure to vote. If you know someone who lives in California, please give them a call or send them an email encouraging them to support this important piece of legislation.
Here is a portion of a fairly gentle post I submitted elsewhere to people who have been arguing against Proposition 19. If you frequent other websites and see people fighting against this legalization, consider posting the following in response:
Quote:
Prohibition does not work. There is no denying that a demand for marijuana exists, and that it cannot be eliminated simply because we make the marijuana illegal. People will find a way to procure their substance of choice, so wouldn't it be better to take the marijuana industry out of the hands of the black market? In doing so, we will undoubtedly see flat to decreased use amongst adolescents, as the substance will not be as popular amongst illicit drug dealers since the exorbitant profit margin will collapse, and kids will have a hard time buying from vendors that ask for proof of age.
Furthermore, law enforcement can quit wasting their time feeding the prison industrial complex by pursuing non-violent crimes related to marijuana, and can instead focus on the crimes that are actually hurting people. This should help reverse the disgusting fact that our country has the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens out of any country on this entire planet, which will save our state and local government much needed money; all while preserving a harmless personal freedom.
Not withstanding the fact that marijuana is substantially less toxic than alcohol (and non-addicting), it is up to adults to make responsible decisions as to how much they will use, just as they do with any other intoxicating substance. Attempting to police morality and personal choice is simply wrong. We need to take a more realistic stance on drug use in this country. People will do it regardless of its legal status. Control the substance, thereby making it as safe as possible for the consumer, while generating additional tax revenue that would otherwise be lost to criminal enterprise, and help curb the incredible waste in the criminal justice system that arises out of these absolutely futile prohibitionary laws.
If you really want to get involved, consider making calls to young absentee voters in California from your own phone at your leisure.
It's really easy to do, and after the first few calls it's total cake! Just be relaxed and respectful, these are normal people. In fact, most of the calls you'll make through JustSayNow will go straight to answering machine.
Here's the script I wrote for myself:Quote:
Hi ____,
My name is ____ and I'm calling because I see that you are registered to vote as an absentee and I just want to make sure that you and everyone else in your household will in fact vote by tomorrow.
I apologize if you've already received calls about this, but I'm really just trying to get people to support Proposition 19, the legalize, tax and regulate marijuana initiative. Prop 19 is designed to treat marijuana pretty much the same as alcohol, which will allow the police and our criminal justice system to focus on violent crimes instead of the non-violent crimes.
This will in turn reduce the prison population which is already WAY over capacity, and should even generate some solid tax revenue for the state and local governments.
Prop 19 is really aimed at protecting consumers while reducing the profits obtained by illegal drug dealers.
I mean, there IS a demand for marijuana in this country, and for 70 years marijuana prohibition has done NOTHING to reduce that demand.
But I'll tell you, tons of money has been wasted all while taking away freedom from the people who get caught using or growing this substance; a substance that incidentally, is less toxic than alcohol AND non-addicting.
Just to clear up some misconceptions, this will not make it legal to drive under the influence. If a pot user is pulled over while driving and fails a field sobriety test, they will have their car impounded and they will have to face the consequences through the court system.
What Prop 19 will do is preserve personal freedom for responsible adults while cleaning up some of the waste in our criminal justice system.
So I thank you for hearing me out and if you haven't voted already, please make sure that you do, and please support prop 19!
Take care and have a nice day.
The race is very tight, but there is definitely a real chance of this passing.  It would be a significant step toward getting federal prohibition repealed!
www.thenewleaf.org www.yeson19.com
// Original post dated August 30th, 2010:
Friends of Cannabis! The People of the State of California will present Proposition 19 on this November's election ballot and I would urge everyone to make sure that you are registered to vote (and if you are not, you can fill out/print/mail this registration form) in order to participate in this November's election. The deal:- Proposition 19 - The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010
Allows people 21 years old or older to possess, cultivate, or transport marijuana for personal use. Permits local governments to regulate and tax commercial production and sale of marijuana to people 21 years old or older. Prohibits people from possessing marijuana on school grounds, using it in public, smoking it while minors are present, or providing it to anyone under 21 years old. Maintains current prohibitions against driving while impaired.
Summary of estimated fiscal impact: Savings of up to several tens of millions of dollars annually to state and local governments on the costs of incarcerating and supervising certain marijuana offenders. Unknown but potentially major tax, fee, and benefit assessment revenues to state and local government related to the production and sale of marijuana products.
M'lady and I attended the "Know Your Rights" expo in Anaheim this past weekend, and it was disappointing to see the low turnout and predominantly sales-oriented roster of attendees. However, we did get to listen to some informative speakers, both for and against the proposition (including Judge Jim Gray, whom you may remember from some of my older spam!).
I would greatly prefer this proposition to be as simple as "removing all existing laws pertaining to marijuana." But in reality, this type of legislation has little chance of passing unless the public can be assured that it will help to prevent children from having ready access to the substance, while simultaneously ensuring the integrity of the product available to adults. Sadly, I don't believe that the issue of non-violent citizens being sent to jail and their families as a result being extremely strained carries enough weight by itself... even though this issue is at the heart of law enforcement expenses that have helped to send our state's budget into dire straits, in addition to making our country one which houses 5% of the total world population but 25% of the world's prisoners!
I wish we didn't have to offer the concession of instituting a sin tax upon marijuana (akin to alcohol and tobacco), which seems likely to happen given the way that Prop 19 has been worded. Nevertheless, I am happy to support legislation that works toward reducing the atrocities that have been committed against so many non-violent citizens on account of our perversely harmful and antiquated prohibition drug laws.
There is a demand for cannabis in this country. Criminalizing the substance has done nothing to stop it, yet has been responsible for wasting unbelievable billions of dollars while ruining the lives of millions of normal people like you and me. In two words, it's fucked! Let's do something about it. Please help encourage sensible drug policy.

On October 6th, I sent out this email to all of my friends and family, and would encourage you to do the same:
Quote:
Friends & Family! I just wanted to take a moment to encourage everyone to speak with their own friends and families about this important issue. Voting against Proposition 19 would maintain a status quo that directly hurts tens of thousands of people in California every year who face legal consequences on account of the prohibitionary laws governing their personal use of marijuana. It is an absolute travesty that our financially strapped state has been forced to continue this strain on our entire criminal justice system, just to hunt down and prosecute non-violent marijuana offenders. Our state legislature recognized this fact when Governor Schwarzenegger signed SB 1449 into law last week, effectively reducing the penalty for public use of pot from a misdemeanor (requiring a court appearance and criminal record) to an infraction (which is the same class as a parking ticket - no court appearance, no court costs, and no criminal record). Beyond that, people who fear these laws against cannabis will often turn to less safe legal alternatives such as the synthetic JWH compounds found in K2 and Spice over the counter herbal blends, which have been reported to produce adverse health affects and have a very short history of use. Untainted marijuana on the other hand is extremely low in toxicity and holds a long history of safe use. Please remember to vote yes on Proposition 19, and forward this email to family and friends who may have a misunderstanding of the real issues here. The latest polls are showing passable support for proposition 19, but the only poll that matters is the one on November 2nd! Some interesting and related commentary:
I hope everyone is enjoying the rain!

Thanks for reading, ~Mike

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Edited by geokills (11/01/10 12:15 PM)
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Annapurna1
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: geokills]
#13125568 - 08/30/10 06:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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forget about prop 19...it will be resoundingly defeated.. swept away in the repugnican megatsunami...beyond which you will be confronted with far more pressing concerns than where to score your next bag...i will post a separate thread on this topic later on...
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geokills
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Annapurna1]
#13125579 - 08/30/10 06:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Have a look at that first You Tube video I posted above. It's a pretty neat clip show of republican and conservative commentators in favor of marijuana legalization.
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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Annapurna1
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: geokills]
#13125618 - 08/30/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
we either put ppl who are smoking marijuana behind bars..or we legalize it...
its not hard to guess which choice a congress full of right-wing moonbats (who are already calling bu$hco "too liberal")..along with gov nut-meg whitman.. will make...but ill give you a clue ..they wont go along with glenn beck on this one...
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Chespirito
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: geokills]
#13125881 - 08/30/10 07:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ill be voting for it, and opinion polls have it close but narrowly winning as far as I'm aware. However since Im not physically in LA (or CA) anymore I dont see the commercials for or against it, so I dont know how much of an impact those will have come voting time.
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AlexD
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Chespirito]
#13127503 - 08/31/10 03:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh man I'm so with you on that one. I'm not an american so I can't help with voting, though I'll definitely consider visiting when victory parties begin 
BTW from what I saw MM dispensary folk are fighting against legalization
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Prisoner#1
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: AlexD]
#13128027 - 08/31/10 09:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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because they believe it'll cut deeply into their money, apparently they dont realize that the black market does that already
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Dickhead
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Annapurna1] 1
#13129622 - 08/31/10 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not a help in any way.
GO VOTE EVERYONE. It is really easy....
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Le_Canard
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Dickhead]
#13130007 - 08/31/10 05:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dunno, it couldn't hurt to hope. You never know. Besides, if it's gonna happen, it'll happen in Cal. first.
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Doc_T
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Dickhead]
#13130054 - 08/31/10 05:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Legal weed will cost more. And I sure can't 'trade' for it!
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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RogerRabbit
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Chespirito]
#13130112 - 08/31/10 05:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chespirito said: opinion polls have it close but narrowly winning as far as I'm aware.
Opinion polls can be deceiving, because they call people on the phone at random. However, a charged issue will bring people to the polls, both for and against. As it appears, there's more who are very charged up for this to pass, than those who are very charged up for it to fail. Since it's an off-presidential election year, voter turnout is going to be key. We'll have to see if the bigots who want to control other people's lives can rally more people to the polls than the stoners or libertarians. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Dickhead
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Annapurna1]
#13130694 - 08/31/10 08:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Taxes can be a good thing. Better than fines.
Go Vote. I would without a doubt. I would also tell everyone else to do the same.
If they said "It Doesn't matter, It won't pass". You don't vote because YOU'LL Win. You Vote Because You feel one way or the other.
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AlexD
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Dickhead]
#13131866 - 09/01/10 12:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=182317
A solid chunk of ICmag cali stoners are against it. Are there any polls specifically on 19, not on legalization in general?
Edited by AlexD (09/01/10 12:13 AM)
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geokills
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: AlexD]
#13132843 - 09/01/10 09:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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At the "Know Your Rights" expo I attended last weekend, it became my understanding that current polling places support for proposition 19 consistently between 50% - 60% in favor thereof.
I listened to as many people against this proposition at the expo as I did who were in favor of it. The primary concerns provided by dissenting parties include some ambiguous wording that will leave room for interpretation by the courts and thus potential abuses against marijuana users and cultivators. However, I've read through the entire text (there's a link in my first post), and it seems that these arguments really don't hold much water.
The purpose of the bill is to regulate, control and tax marijuana. There's no secret about that. I would love to see a proposition that simply stated "To Remove All Laws Pertaining to Marijuana from the Legal Code" -- but come on, that's a pipe dream! Marijuana is a widely used and undoubtedly intoxicating substance, and so it stands to reason that it will be controlled in order to make sure minors cannot so easily get their hands on it. One of the principle pieces of propaganda against marijuana over past decades has been the scare tactic aimed towards parents regarding the perilous dangers pot poses to their children. Obviously, once such an idea has been so hard wired into our social structure, one cannot expect that we'll magically get the votes to remove all regulation on the plant to the point where an elementary school could use it for landscaping!
It's not like marijuana is being unfairly singled out with this legislation. Afterall, alcohol and tobacco have long been regulated and taxed heavily. Sure I can brew 100 gallons of beer each year, but that's not nearly enough to run any sort of profitable business venture. For this, I understand why so many pot growers are pissed about Prop 19. It indeed will probably edge many of them out of a market that has supported them for a long time. Nevertheless, it's not going to prevent anyone from growing amounts for personal use and really isn't that what matters most? People will be able to grow pot for themselves, for medical OR recreational reasons.
Furthermore, prop 19 contains language that appears to allow local city and county governments to make their own laws allowing for greater cultivation and possession limits than the general state guidelines. This is exactly what I would want to see - bringing the legislative power closer to the people! Just as the federal government probably doesn't know what's best for my town, my state legislature in the capital may also not be fully aware of the local politics of my city or county. I firmly believe laws such as these should be enacted as locally as possible. This way, each community can decide what is best for them.
Anyways, I'm getting a little long winded... my main point is that a change in marijuana law will require some concessions. It's a process that should progress toward more respectful and common sense laws, but a process nevertheless. The Tax & Regulate basis for the current legislation is an effective way at legitimizing the debate on the real benefits and harms of cannabis, and will help turn otherwise conservative voters towards supporting this step in the right direction. If it passes, it will set an example for the rest of the country and can only help to move us as a nation towards more responsible drug laws that don't mandate the caging of harmless users.
I will concede that prop 19 will probably hurt the "mom and pop" pot producers, and that in their place large corporations will have a major advantage in the economic sense. But the bottom line is that we cannot continue to imprison non-violent people for a private activity that does not affect anyone else but themselves! It is destroying lives and our budget. It is insanity! To think that people want to shut down Prop 19 because it isn't perfect is a little bit insane to me too. Since when has anything in politics been perfect?!
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Half a loaf is better than none.
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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AlexD
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: geokills]
#13132883 - 09/01/10 09:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wiki article for 19 lists some polls with 50-60% majority, but it's not clear if it's specifically about 19 or legalization in general.
Serious pot growers and medicals are probably a small minority of stoners so I hope it's going to pass regardless.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: AlexD]
#13132962 - 09/01/10 10:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I certainly hope it passes, because what happens in CA generally is adopted around the country within a decade or so.
However, remember only two years ago when medical MJ grows were being raided by the feds under the dubya administration on the grounds that federal law trumps state law. All it will take is a change of administration in DC and the CA law will be rendered null and void. We also need to pursue legalization on the federal level. I would like nothing more than to be able to grow my own without fear of arrest and asset forfeiture. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Chespirito
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13133226 - 09/01/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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If the federal government decides to go after CA growers they will only go after the largest of farms. These large farms will undoubtedly be owned by a large probably current corporation. Id reckon that these corporations will have more sway over the Executive branch then the current medical growers and mom and pop growers. Not to say that the Executive branch wont still go after them however I think it's a slightly different matter.
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Annapurna1
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Chespirito]
#13133519 - 09/01/10 12:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chespirito said: If the federal government decides to go after CA growers they will only go after the largest of farms. These large farms will undoubtedly be owned by a large probably current corporation. Id reckon that these corporations will have more sway over the Executive branch then the current medical growers and mom and pop growers. Not to say that the Executive branch wont still go after them however I think it's a slightly different matter.
its not just the feds.. theres also governor-to-be nutmeg whitman to worry about...
but first the feds ..the 112th congress is going to be controlled by repugnican extremists (including CA sen carly fiorina).. which means that o'bumble will be forced to make some painful political tradeoffs.. including reversing his kind-of-sort-of policy of medical marijuana detente...the new congress will also undoubtedly push for pernicious anti-terrorism legislation..mandating that anyone caught with a spliff in their mouth is a de facto terrorist to be held under torture as such...
now on to the nutmeg...whitman will no doubt be among the federal repugs greatest allies ..two things that i can think of off the top of my head is collecting the tax in the form of stamps that are never printed.. along with restricting the "legal marijuana" to industrial hemp...
if prop19 does manage to buck the far right trend.. then it would be in the ultimate act of cynicism as CA casts a vote for legal marijuana with one hand..while at the same time casting two votes against it (in the guise of whitman and fiorina) with the other hand...
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AlexD
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: Annapurna1]
#13134028 - 09/01/10 02:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder if there is anything you can talk about without ranting about "repugs" every 2 seconds
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: California [CA] Proposition 19 - Tax & Regulate Marijuana [Re: AlexD]
#13134111 - 09/01/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlexD said: I wonder if there is anything you can talk about without ranting about "repugs" every 2 seconds 
You really are a dreamer.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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