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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #1306464 - 02/13/03 05:22 PM (21 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

"Here is the reason I got from PayPal.

As you know, the PayPal User Agreement (Section V.3) states that
PayPal, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to close an account
at any time for any reason. We write to inform you that, after a
review of your site, and in accordance with this section of the User
Agreement, your account has been closed. Your funds will be held for
180 days from the date of the last transaction on the account. After
180 days have expired, we will refund your funds by mailing a check to
the address linked to your account."





I remember reading of many other legal loop holes that they have up there sleeves as well.... I never was a fan of paypal due to the loop holes that they can pull into play at anytime.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


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InvisibleIDontGrow
insomniac

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 217
Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: psilocyber]
    #1308784 - 02/14/03 06:27 PM (21 years, 13 days ago)

you knew paypal had qurks about its vendors...you were playing russian rulet..the camber with the bullet finally got infornt of the fireing pin.


--------------------
work of fiction

http://www.thenook.org/


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: psilocyber]
    #1309776 - 02/15/03 10:19 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Unfortunately they are also protected in this case. In thier contract they will state that any held funds will be deposited into non-interest bearing accounts. I would imagine it would be tough to check whether or not this is true,




Actualy as a company they have to have a disclosure of earnings available to depositors and stockholders. The deposit the money into a pool of cash, all of it's invested and making them more. Your funds are 'available' to dump into your account after about 3 buisiness days...it's an instant transfer. the only reason that it takes that time is they have to pull from the pool. Also buy frezing your money you no longer have access to transfer, much like a deposit, you cant touch it to invest on your own and as such you are entitles to a reasonable amount of intrest.


Quote:

but this is what they will claim if you present this argument to them. We had a similar situation when our merchant processor decided to hold serveral days worth of sales as a "security deposit" against our account. Trust me, these guys have a TON of highly paid lawyers protecting their money and company, it'll be a tough fight and I'm sure that you'll find that in almost all cases their contract (which you agreed to when signing up) covers almost all possible angle for dispute.




Exactly right, but so far there have been many user agreement that have been contested over the years, most have some course of action that can be exploited and still others like, paypals, leave you no recourse. There are several hols in the old paypal agreement, and the new one as well. this is they updated.




Quote:

About all you can do is make a lot of noise and hope they'll take care of you cause they will get sick and tired of hearing from you (this works!).




Works like a charm....

Quote:

, perhaps more logical claim you can lay against them is the fact that you will owe taxes on the revenue generated off those sales. As a result they are technically holding onto money that belongs to either the federal government or your state government (if you pay state income tax). This argument holds more weight.





it does, but it also doesnt hurt to look into the law regarding 'financial institutions', regardless of what they may say, they are acting as a bank, they distribute credit cards, pay interest and invest money for some of their users, remember the SnL scandles....same thing happening all over again....

Prisoner#1


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Jammer]
    #1309779 - 02/15/03 10:21 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

I remember reading of many other legal loop holes that they have up there sleeves as well.... I never was a fan of paypal due to the loop holes that they can pull into play at anytime.




Those loopholes work 2 ways....thats the fun of the lawyerspeak.

Prisoner#1

I'll see if I can locate the full text and post a little that works to vendor advantage



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: IDontGrow]
    #1309784 - 02/15/03 10:28 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

you knew paypal had qurks about its vendors...you were playing russian rulet..the camber with the bullet finally got infornt of the fireing pin.




Yes, but it looks very prejudicial, as it they are trying to prevent competition with
e-bay and some of the people selling spores there....one guy seems to be selling every strain available through any of the vendor, grow kits with spores and quite a few other interesting items that fall under a violation of Paypal and Ebay policy.

A brief look into their policy regarding items that are construed as illegal is a wise idea, document several cases of the policy being violated....most of these instances recieve a final bid and payment is generaly made through payal or bid pay, both are subs of the parent company E-Bay....

Prisoner#1


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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1310251 - 02/15/03 04:08 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

"Those loopholes work 2 ways....thats the fun of the lawyerspeak.

Prisoner#1

I'll see if I can locate the full text and post a little that works to vendor advantage"





I would be most interested in reading this.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


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OfflineDSD
devil

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 1,263
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Jammer]
    #1310542 - 02/15/03 07:06 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)



Good job prisoner #1, a little legal advice is usually a good thing.


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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1311213 - 02/16/03 06:41 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

So far the reason above is the only written statement I received from them.

After emailing them several times with the transaction #'s to refund, then the idiots ask me for name/dates/amount etc. All they need is the transaction ID.. just another way for them to stall a few more days.

So both of our accounts were closed the same day. Interesting. Definatly sounds like some dirty play at work here.
Although I haven't been argueing with any vendors in a very long time or pissed off any customers that I know recently.
Oh well.. doesn't matter now. The dirty deed has been done.

Plenty of other services out there to use.



--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com



muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: DSD]
    #1311235 - 02/16/03 06:51 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

with as much trouble as I have been in you learn the ins and out of the system, I have had arrests for a variety of things but verry rarely did a charge stick, normaly I'm arrested because I was just too outspoken for the cops to deal with, the hate when you know your rights better than they do....

Prisoner#1

it also helps when you have a $30k a year retainer


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: psilocyber]
    #1311361 - 02/16/03 08:15 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

From paypal user agreement.....about pooled funds earning interest, the money is being placed in both investments and FDIC accounts. Placing the money in FDIC banks can bring involvement from the Treasury if it's pushed hard enough.
Also, even though you arent earning interest on the 'pooled funds', when you have an account frozen by paypal, this means that they have canceled the user agreement and have terminated your account. You are no longer bound under this account.


You are not required to keep funds in the PayPal system (i.e., carry a balance in your PayPal agency account) in order to use the Service. If you do carry a U.S. Dollar balance in your PayPal account and do not enroll in the PayPal Money Market Fund, PayPal will pool your funds together with funds from other Users, and will place those funds in accounts at one or more FDIC-insured banks ("Pooled Accounts"). You agree that any earnings on the Pooled Accounts will be the property of PayPal, and you will not receive interest or other earnings on the funds that PayPal handles as your agent. Balances held in currencies other than U.S. Dollars will not be placed with the FDIC-insured banks

another interesting tidbit about your paypal banking services

Article 5. Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity. If PayPal (or Wells Fargo, in connection with processing credit card transactions) has reason to believe that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, or improper activity, including without limitation any violation of any terms and conditions of this Agreement, your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated. Further, if such behavior involved a MasterCard or VISA credit card transaction, it may result in you/your business being prevented from registering for payment acceptance through any payment provider or directly with any bank acquirer operating under license to either the MasterCard or VISA card associations. You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including but not limited to granting authorized PayPal representatives "guest" or "member" access to any password-protected portions of your website.

Ok...now under this article you may be selling a product that is 'prohibited', as would the parent company e-bay, they are currently trafficking in the very same product that many of you carry, as well as schedule 1 narcotics, ie...Opium, in the form of 'poppy pods' alledged to be sold for ornamental purposed, just as yours are....with this criminal charges could be filed but most likely wont be. But civil action would be a viable alternative because it shows that the parent company e-bay wishes to remove competing vendors...think Monopoly/ Anti-trust....remember microsoft.....

The article also states that you will cooperate fully....start requesting the information regarding the investigation, they are acting as you agent in a financial transaction and you are entitled to a FULL disclosure of the investigatio, especialy since it is your money being held.

thats it for today.....

Prisoner#1



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #1311385 - 02/16/03 08:27 AM (21 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

So far the reason above is the only written statement I received from them.

After emailing them several times with the transaction #'s to refund, then the idiots ask me for name/dates/amount etc. All they need is the transaction ID.. just another way for them to stall a few more days.




demand your cash, demand detail of the transactions, and demand the details of their investigations, otherwise they are unlawfully denying you access to your funds, write a letter stating that from the time in which your paypal account you have determined that a reasonable intrest rate of 24% is being cgarged for all funds being with held. This amount fall just below the amount for usury and is perfectly legal, as it is the same charged by 'Providian' the persone supplying them with the paypal credit card lines. You can make this claim because of a 'willful misconduct' clause in the user policy.

Quote:

So both of our accounts were closed the same day. Interesting. Definatly sounds like some dirty play at work here.
Although I haven't been argueing with any vendors in a very long time or pissed off any customers that I know recently.
Oh well.. doesn't matter now. The dirty deed has been done.
Plenty of other services out there to use.





I got 3 contamed B+ syringes from you...but with the volume that I had purchased they were freebee's anywayand the other free syringes more than made up for it....and as you have always done right by me in the past I never cared.

The whole thing you want to become at the moment is a pain in Paypal ass.

Prisoner#1


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Another One Bites the Dust [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #1311405 - 02/16/03 08:34 AM (21 years, 11 days ago)

I almost forgot....A little social engeneering would be in order, send your request for a check for the amount of the held funds via regestered mail. also try and aquire information with regards to paypal Execs, anything you can get...SSN, Addresss, what ever, there is always something out there, if you know any one in santa clara california, request they do a little dumpster diving....it's called detective work....you would be amazed at how much info is availabe there....
A web page can be made to display any sensitive and or private information that would violate paypals user agreement for every one of the users if a few are posted publicly....there is no crime as long as you arent using it for any fraudulent purpose....

Prisoner#1


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