Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Embossed spore print? I need an explanation.
    #13080659 - 08/20/10 09:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I’ve been noticing what looks like an embossed spore print on the reverse side of the foil on most of my spore prints and prints I’ve received from others.  I was just wondering, does anyone know what causes that to happen? 

I already have an idea of how it might happen, but I don’t have any sources to back me up.  From what I understand, spores are dispersed from the mushroom gills pretty fiercely in order to ensure lots of possibilities for germination locations. I imagine the force that the spores collectively eject on to the foil could cause an embossed appearance on the reverse side of regular aluminum foil. (Would this still happen when using thicker foil?)

Just curious, any thoughts?


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: prozak812]
    #13080773 - 08/20/10 09:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That's the most likely cause, if people are incorrectly using the cheapest foil they can get.  Heavy duty foil works better and doesn't tear as easily.

People are always wondering how spores get on top of the caps, and it's due as you said to the spores being ejected with extreme force, coupled with their elliptical shape, similar to an airplane wing.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13080890 - 08/20/10 10:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Cool.  I suppose I oughtta upgrade to some better foil.  At least for prints.  Actually, I'm going to say that 200 square feet of Great Value aluminum foil is fantastic for my jar covers and other kitchen needs-- But for my prints... for the laboratory... I need something higher quality.  Though, I must admit, it's pretty cool that those little fungi are capable of embossing their print on foil.

It's always a pleasure to get wise words and expert opinion from you, RR.  Thanks for lookin' out!


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13081225 - 08/20/10 11:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

People are always wondering how spores get on top of the caps, and it's due as you said to the spores being ejected with extreme force, coupled with their elliptical shape, similar to an airplane wing.
RR




you just answered one of the greatest mysteries about mushrooms for me. THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom, now i won't loose any sleep pondering this phenomenon anymore :laugh:

Like seriously, first i noticed when i ate mushrooms and spent time at my grow. I immediately noticed that there was no possible way other than some magical air current to deposit the spores on top of the mushrooms. I also sensed a strong field of energy around the mushrooms themselves, especially the open capped ones. Maybe i was picking up on this but not even realizing it.

I knew they were ejected with an extremely large force, i thought this was enough to send them flying. i never fathomed that they would have enough energy to fly a loop up and land ontop of the mushrooms with such a strange distribution pattern that is reminiscent of magnetic field lines.


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOwce
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 34
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: prozak812]
    #13081246 - 08/20/10 11:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

you mean this guys? I somehow cannot imagine spore being shot into foil, so it would emboss anything. Imho that would require an absurd amount of energy for something as light as a spore. Isn't the explanation as simple as that the surface of the foil with the print isn't flat and you push the shape of the spore hills into the foil?

I am really curious.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRagnarokkr

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 146
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Owce]
    #13081361 - 08/21/10 12:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

25,000 g's!

http://books.google.com/books?id=NPI8_-omzvsC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false

(from Mycelium Running, by Paul Stamets)

Edited by Ragnarokkr (08/22/10 12:17 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Owce]
    #13081363 - 08/21/10 12:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, it requires an absurd amount of energy, but there are A LOT of spores. If each just puts a microscopic dent into it i can most certainly see this causing an emboss


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13081394 - 08/21/10 12:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
the cheapest foil they can get.  Heavy duty foil works better and doesn't tear as easily.




I've never torn a spore print.
I like heavy foil for covering jars, but prints aren't a durable item, y'know?

(I think the embossing is kind of fun. It's not just cheap foil- it's noobs smoothing the foil down.)


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOwce
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 34
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13081418 - 08/21/10 01:07 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

omg, that would count as absurd amount of energy. I would still bet on the smoothing hypothesis, but now it seems kinda possible that it could really be done by just the spores alone.

edit:
My science knowledge is rather dusty, but the important thing about acceleration is for how long it persists. 10000g's sound like a lot, but it in fact doesn't mean anything, right? 

Edited by Owce (08/21/10 01:11 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephaseflux
Stranger than most


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 702
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13081472 - 08/21/10 01:31 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
the cheapest foil they can get.  Heavy duty foil works better and doesn't tear as easily.




I've never torn a spore print.
I like heavy foil for covering jars, but prints aren't a durable item, y'know?

(I think the embossing is kind of fun. It's not just cheap foil- it's noobs smoothing the foil down.)




Oops, should I not be doing that? I always thought it would be better to get all the air out. Oh well my prints still work so i suppose it doesn't matter :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13081639 - 08/21/10 03:31 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Won't hurt anything, spores are tough.

I was sitting here wondering about the force involved in denting the foil by the spores shooting out of the cap.
Not all the much per spore, but there's millions of spores... I wonder how much the foil heats up? And the cap?


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBase Icks
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13081779 - 08/21/10 06:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Won't hurt anything, spores are tough.

I was sitting here wondering about the force involved in denting the foil by the spores shooting out of the cap.
Not all the much per spore, but there's millions of spores... I wonder how much the foil heats up? And the cap?



:header:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelil_demented
Loner will lone
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 6,146
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Base Icks]
    #13081807 - 08/21/10 06:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is some fascinating stuff. Thanks for posting this question OP.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetoxinn
Stranger (than what?)
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: lil_demented]
    #13081831 - 08/21/10 06:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yea you would think that all the friction of the spores making speedy contact with that foil should generate some heat.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineafrosheen
9Lives the cat
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: toxinn]
    #13081948 - 08/21/10 08:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'd like to get a super sensitive microphone close to the foil and see if it sounds like rain during spore deposits.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: lil_demented]
    #13082021 - 08/21/10 08:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lil_demented said:
This is some fascinating stuff. Thanks for posting this question OP.




No trouble.  It was actually my roommate who noticed it...  And at first, it just didn't seem possible-- that the force of spores could have a naked-eye visual effect, but I mean... Millions?  It would HAVE to have SOME effect, right?

I'll see if I can't get a nice picture of one of my next prints, before I officially upgrade foils.


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Ragnarokkr]
    #13082134 - 08/21/10 09:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ragnarokkr said:
25,000 g's!

http://books.google.com/books?id=NPI8_-omzvsC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false




This is nuts.  Really.  Read the link.  Think.  If we had a human-sized mushrooms, they would be sending it's spores to the Andromeda Galaxy... assuming we figured out how to override the whole gravity thing.


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Owce]
    #13082189 - 08/21/10 09:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

if an object is accelerated with some hundred thousand g's then that's  LOT.

The spores posses an immense amount of energy relative to their tiny weight just after they are launched. If a football hit you in the head that leaves the kickers foot with 25000g's you would have no more head. Because the spores are tiny their energy dissipates rather fast, yet it's enough for such a tiny object to be thrown inches away. if you, as a human person tried to throw a spore that far it would probably fall straight down after it leaves your hand, due to the small acceleration that your hand is able to impose on the spores.

i can see without a doubt how that would be able to leave prints on foil. Sure a spore doesn't weigh much, but it packs a lot of energy for it's size when it's launched. enough so to leave a tiny dent in the tinfoil (we are talking about a dent the size of the spore), over and over and over again, cause there a millions of spores.

amazing stuff!


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13082363 - 08/21/10 10:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The idea that the force of the spores hitting the aluminum and denting it is utter NONSENSE.

It's exactly what doc said. If you take a pen or something and smooth out the print you'll get this affect.

If the spores are landing on top of the cap, then how on god's earth can they also be plummeting to the aluminum with such force that they dent it. Ridiculous. :wow: :wow: :wow:

If you're that serious about it, figure out the maximum terminal velocity of the spore and see how much the impact force would be. I guess a spore reaches terminal velocity in about an inch of fall or less.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (08/21/10 10:54 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13082389 - 08/21/10 10:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Ive never made an embossed print, Ive recieved them,

I also do not flatten my prints, Therefore my bet is people flattening their prints.. or the prints get flattened in the mail


--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephaseflux
Stranger than most


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 702
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13082545 - 08/21/10 11:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pscientist said:
Ive never made an embossed print, Ive recieved them,

I also do not flatten my prints, Therefore my bet is people flattening their prints.. or the prints get flattened in the mail




That's what i think also, that its due to flattening the prints.
I guess i'll check next time before I fold the foil.

Also, I don't think the spores on the caps (of the tallest mushrooms)is due to spores floating up and down again in an arc, but rather being pushed through the flesh of the cap. From what it looks like to me, it seems like the spores are not only shot out the bottom of the cap, but upward through the mushroom flesh.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13082572 - 08/21/10 11:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phaseflux said:
From what it looks like to me, it seems like the spores are not only shot out the bottom of the cap, but upward through the mushroom flesh.




:rofl: :rofl2: :lmao:

I'm sorry, this just really tickled my funny bone. I'm not trying to be mean. It's a valid theory I suppose.

How did these spores get on the lid of the fc tho?


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13082581 - 08/21/10 11:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phaseflux said:
From what it looks like to me, it seems like the spores are not only shot out the bottom of the cap, but upward through the mushroom flesh.




Shooting from the gills up through the flesh of the cap? I doubt it.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephaseflux
Stranger than most


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 702
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13082636 - 08/21/10 11:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

thats exactly what it seems like to me. At first, I'll have spore patterns on the caps, and only a bit on the perlite (top of caps of tallest shrooms darker than perlite also), none on the ceiling of the FC. And a lot of times the caps will look dark, even before a large amount of the spores are dropped. Seems like for how dark the caps get, that if the spores really did arc upward after going downwards, that the walls of the FC would also be completely covered in spores, but they aren't.

Seems plausible if they are ejected with so much force that they should be able to penetrate the flesh of the mushroom (which is porous).
I always thought of it as an explosion of spores within the cap, and that most just tend to go down because thats the path of least resistance.

This is just a guess based on my observations.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedizzyease
1--2--3--4--5


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 541
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 14 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13083023 - 08/21/10 01:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So imagine, if you fell asleep with a cap on your arm. I wonder what that'd be like. shooting spores into your skin. :P

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: dizzyease]
    #13083370 - 08/21/10 03:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Air currents cause the spores to waft onto the caps.
Although spores are ejected at a terrific speed, they are to light to leave an impression in aluminum foil.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13083398 - 08/21/10 03:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
The idea that the force of the spores hitting the aluminum and denting it is utter NONSENSE.

It's exactly what doc said. If you take a pen or something and smooth out the print you'll get this affect.

If the spores are landing on top of the cap, then how on god's earth can they also be plummeting to the aluminum with such force that they dent it. Ridiculous. :wow: :wow: :wow:





Because the cap is sitting on the foil or wax paper, not suspended on its stipe.  I've never seen spores land on a cap when printing.  I've also seen the imprint and I don't flatten out my prints.  If you don't think 25,000 times the weight of a apore being projected from less than 1/8" distance at the the speed a bullet leaves a rifle, times a few million spores, can't dent foil, think again before you call nonsense on the experts in the field. 

Mushrooms are amazing creatures, and the hydraulic pressure built as they grow is also phenomenal. I've seen mushrooms push 20 pound rocks out of their way so they could grow.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13083412 - 08/21/10 03:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i believe you.
I have a sound understanding of physics, and i know that what you're postulating is 100% plausible.

if one shot a tiny sand grain at you you wouldn't even notice. Yet, a sandblaster is powerful enough to take your skin off to the bone in no time.

How many grams / milligrams of spores does a mushroom release? Now calculate the total kinetic energy that a single projectile of combined mass would contain, and you'd realize it's more than enough to put a dent into some tinfoil.


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineafrosheen
9Lives the cat
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13084777 - 08/21/10 10:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:popcorn: Good thread.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrum
la muerte peluda


Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 557
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: afrosheen]
    #13084808 - 08/21/10 10:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Occam's Razor - What other force could be denting the foil?



Its probably not dali.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13084978 - 08/22/10 12:07 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
People are always wondering how spores get on top of the caps, and it's due as you said to the spores being ejected with extreme force, coupled with their elliptical shape, similar to an airplane wing.
RR





Quote:

phaseflux said:
Also, I don't think the spores on the caps (of the tallest mushrooms)is due to spores floating up and down again in an arc, but rather being pushed through the flesh of the cap. From what it looks like to me, it seems like the spores are not only shot out the bottom of the cap, but upward through the mushroom flesh.





reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddddddddddd


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13084992 - 08/22/10 12:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i don't even care to argue this point, everybody that knows a thing or two about physics knows that what RR hypothesized is a very viable theory. I'd like to see some proof, but for now, i can easily see and understand why this happens. It was a mystery before someone mentioned them being ejected with a very high acceleration.

Think about a paper plane. It doesn't weigh much, and you are accelerating it using your hands. It goes flying for quite a remarkable distance for something that only weighs a few grams, requiring a little amount of energy. Imagine you could accelerate this plane at some hundred thousand G's, i can see how it would end up on top of a skyscraper. let's not get into the stability of paper of course, this is a simple thought experiment to illustrate a point.


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13085029 - 08/22/10 12:33 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phaseflux said:
Also, I don't think the spores on the caps (of the tallest mushrooms)is due to spores floating up and down again in an arc, but rather being pushed through the flesh of the cap. From what it looks like to me, it seems like the spores are not only shot out the bottom of the cap, but upward through the mushroom flesh.




This is incorrect.  They're not penetrating the mushroom flesh.  You can see this easily with polypores in the forest.  They're as tough and woody as the trees they're attached to, yet the tops of the conks are covered in spores.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13086011 - 08/22/10 10:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Roger, you are incorrect.
Spores are designed to float on air currents, not to shoot through them like a bullet. Next.

http://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/spore-discharge-mushrooms.html
"While the spore leaves the basidium with a tremendous acceleration, it is small and quickly feels the effects of air resistance. The spore briefly follows an almost straight-line path away from the basidium, then slows, loses the forward momentum given by the initial acceleration and finally drifts down (under the influence of gravity) in the air gap between the gills until clear of the cap - where even the slightest of air currents will carry the spores further afield. In the following diagram the blue lines show the paths of a number of spores, some just released from the basidium and others nearly beyond the bottom of the gills and into the open air."



--------------------
Some things can grow without the light.--RJD

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086123 - 08/22/10 11:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The spore briefly follows an almost straight-line path away from the basidium



Straight into the foil, right?


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086132 - 08/22/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:

"While the spore leaves the basidium with a tremendous acceleration, it is small and quickly feels the effects of air resistance. The spore briefly follows an almost straight-line path away from the basidium, then slows, loses the forward momentum given by the initial acceleration and finally drifts down (under the influence of gravity) in the air gap between the gills until clear of the cap - where even the slightest of air currents will carry the spores further afield. [/image]





thats all fine and dandy.

what happens when you minimize the amount of air between the gills and whatever the spores are landing on.

there are almost 0 air currents between a cap and the foil that it is sitting on.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086163 - 08/22/10 11:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Look at the picture.

It doesn't matter if the cap is directly on the foil, the spores are shot out horizontally into the space between the gills, not vertically downward onto the foil.

Within half a millimeter all the force is lost!


--------------------
Some things can grow without the light.--RJD

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13086168 - 08/22/10 11:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
think again before you call nonsense on the experts in the field. 

RR





Who here are you calling an expert in physics? Yourself? Or maybe that guy who said the spores push up thru the flesh of the cap?

:rofl2:

Seriously tho, how much would an average basidiospore weigh and what is the terminal velocity at a given altitude / air pressure?

While trying to find the answer to this I found this interesting factoid:

A complete range of intermediate basidiospore sizes exists, giving a nearly normal frequency curve slightly skewed towards the lower values. This indicates that no taxa based on basidiospore sizes can be justified. Mean lengths of basidiospores were correlated with altitudes (specimens limited to those collected within lat. 10° N. and S. of the equator to limit a possible influence of latitude). Collection data and corresponding basidiospore sizes indicate also a positive influence of latitude on basidiospore size. Temperature appears to be the regulator since it varies in the same direction whether by latitude or altitude. Increase in temperature seems to depress basidiospore size.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (08/22/10 11:51 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086177 - 08/22/10 11:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Look at the picture.

It doesn't matter if the cap is directly on the foil, the spores are shot out horizontally into the space between the gills, not vertically downward onto the foil.

Within half a millimeter all the force is lost!




i just have a hard time believing that something this organic makes right angles as it leaves the cap.

but i am very interested to see where this thread ends up


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086203 - 08/22/10 11:46 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Right angles?
Its called, gravity!


--------------------
Some things can grow without the light.--RJD

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLeopardMan
Constantly changing
Male

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086207 - 08/22/10 11:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Look at the picture.

It doesn't matter if the cap is directly on the foil, the spores are shot out horizontally into the space between the gills, not vertically downward onto the foil.

Within half a millimeter all the force is lost!




i just have a hard time believing that something this organic makes right angles as it leaves the cap.

but i am very interested to see where this thread ends up




Well, at least we have a second opinion. I completely trust RR but I like to compare different viewpoints :shrug:


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086241 - 08/22/10 11:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Right angles?
Its called, gravity!



your picture illustrates right angles. gravity allows for slopes.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086250 - 08/22/10 11:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

HerbBaker said:  "look at the picture"

OK

I am a pretty well read graduate, not bragging, bear with me......
I have seen illustrations of a plethora of theories in multiple medium.

You prove nothing with a cartoon.

Fact: observation of phenomena was made
Fact: expert explains

observation explained 1+1=2

Fact: cartoons used to show the earth was flat and monsters consumed sea beAring vessels daring to wander to close.

Just observation by a noob mycologist but well versed bullshit translator.
Be Blessed
GREAt THREAD RP :wink:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLeopardMan
Constantly changing
Male

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13086285 - 08/22/10 12:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"The spore producing structures mentioned so far in these pages are not the familiar mushrooms . Spore release in mushrooms is not completely understood. Cells called basidia produce spores, which cover the surface of the gills or pores on the underside of a mushroom's cap. Mushrooms and other fungi that possess basidia are known as Basidiomycetes. The spores are produced on the tips of "pegs" (sterigmata) projecting from the basidia. The spores are off-center (asymmetric) on the pegs. Mycologists have discovered that spores are discharged 0.5 to 1 mm from basidia. A mushroom's discharge range is related to the spacing between its gills or the diameter of its tubes. If the range were greater spores would hit, and perhaps stick to, adjacent gills or the opposite wall of a tube".

Source


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13086303 - 08/22/10 12:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

How come most people on this site, wanna tell me how smart they think are?
That's not a sign of intelligence. Sorry.

What they are trying to show in the picture, (if you had taken the time to go to the original page and read it) is the spores are stopped by air pressure; after that, the only place to go is down. That's where gravity comes in.

Even when a cap is sitting on foil there is still air resistance in the space between the gills.

If just the air pressure can stop the spore within half a millimeter, how little force must the spore have.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086313 - 08/22/10 12:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The spore launches sideways to clear the gill so it can fall down. Like these guys just said.

I are smart too.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13086316 - 08/22/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yah sideways.. Not Down!


Edited by HerbBaker (08/22/10 12:24 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086329 - 08/22/10 12:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
How come most people on this site, wanna tell me how smart they think are?
That's not a sign of intelligence. Sorry.





the same reason you feel the need to assert yours.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLeopardMan
Constantly changing
Male

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086332 - 08/22/10 12:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It makes sense to me. Waiting for RR's reply. Thanks HerbBaker :thumbup:


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLeopardMan
Constantly changing
Male

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: LeopardMan]
    #13086342 - 08/22/10 12:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Look here:

"There are several different mechanisms by which fungi release their spores into the air, which then allows them to be dispersed by wind. One that was mentioned, in the previous section, was the dispersal of basidiospores of mushrooms. This release is accomplished by the forcible ejection of the basidia from the basidiospores. The force that ejects the basidiospores comes about from the internal pressure that is built up in the basidia. When the basidiospores are mature, the pressure in the basidia literally shoots the basidiospores between the gills of the mushroom. Although the actual distance that the basidiospores are ejected is very short, it is enough to  allow them to drop between the gills, without getting trapped (see Figure 5a-b, on previous page)."

Source


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086351 - 08/22/10 12:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I was providing facts as to perpetuate my theory.  Any idiot can graduate from a big 10 university.
I never metioned intellect, it seems to the basis of most of your posts, however.
I disagree with RR as well, look it up, I got banned over it.
I am simply looking for something other than a drawing, I know RRs opinions on mycology are respected.
I know I have seen wiley coyote do some neat stuff in cartoons that could NEVER be substantiated by physical fact.
Follow me kiddo?
Now I add the phenomena of spores on fruit tops.....
Air flow that we as cultivators create to dispense CO2......
Another drawing, grrrrrrreat. 
I am with the experts on this one.  And I am not some easily swung ass kisser HerbBaker, it is just that facts are just that, uhhhhhhhhhh
"it is what it is"?????
That one maybe?????
Now provide me a theory as to how said embossing occurs, in an experienced mycologists hand???
This interests me, and I am a skeptic by nature, pardon my harsh post style, it is due mostly, to my copious substance consumption.
Be Blessed

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086405 - 08/22/10 12:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

HerbBaker said:
How come most people on this site, wanna tell me how smart they think are?
That's not a sign of intelligence. Sorry.





the same reason you feel the need to assert yours.




My point is, its a shallow debate tactic, people do this when they try get people to believe them.

If you think I'm just asserting my intelligence, then you got me wrong. I'm trying to help as many people as possible with the tools I have available.

We all know things another people don't, intelligence is knowing why.
I don't kiss anyone's ass, ever.
If disrespect me, I'll ignore you. If you wanna learn how embossing occurs, look it up.

Edited by HerbBaker (08/22/10 12:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086422 - 08/22/10 12:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
If you think I'm just asserting my intelligence, then you got me wrong. I'm trying to help as many people as possible with the tools I have available.





but of course you could not possibly have gotten anyone on this site wrong eh?


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086435 - 08/22/10 01:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I get people "wrong" all the time..
I am far from perfect.

Is that the impression I'm giving you?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086450 - 08/22/10 01:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
I get people "wrong" all the time..
I am far from perfect.

Is that the impression I'm giving you?





i got the impression that you wanted to impress.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086459 - 08/22/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe that says more about you, then it does about me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086464 - 08/22/10 01:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No wonder you're an opt-out.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13086481 - 08/22/10 01:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

When I opted out my feedback was awesome.
I just refuse to play tag-along.
Does that satisfy your curiosity?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086491 - 08/22/10 01:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Maybe that says more about you, then it does about me.




maybe, maybe not.
depends on the person.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13086497 - 08/22/10 01:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This belongs in Icelanders "Hubris" thread lmao
the " impression " I got was that your " impression " of yourself is elevated, albeit falsely, on the topic of " impression "



:lolsy:



Back to serious stuff, any way to test these theories?


Quote:

Doc_T said:
No wonder you're an opt-out.




Take bein an asshole like a man Herbbie, check my rates, add if you like.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleprismism
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,570
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13086500 - 08/22/10 01:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You guys are now reduced to bickering back and forth like little girls. Continue the discussion about the damn embossed spore print or shut the fuck up.


--------------------
ephemeral anomalous

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: prismism]
    #13086515 - 08/22/10 01:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

prismism said:
You guys are now reduced to bickering back and forth like little girls. Continue the discussion about the damn embossed spore print or shut the fuck up.



:loudnoises:  :methisgood:  :nosiridontlikeit:


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13086562 - 08/22/10 01:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If I'm an asshole for sticking to my guns, then so be it. :shrug: WE all got our own opinion.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13086578 - 08/22/10 01:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
If I'm an asshole for sticking to my guns, then so be it. :shrug: WE all got our own opinion.




no one called you an asshole :shrug:


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: prismism]
    #13086630 - 08/22/10 01:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:
This belongs in Icelanders "Hubris" thread lmao
the " impression " I got was that your " impression " of yourself is elevated, albeit falsely, on the topic of " impression "



:lolsy:



Back to serious stuff, any way to test these theories?


Quote:

Doc_T said:
No wonder you're an opt-out.




Take bein an asshole like a man Herbbie, check my rates, add if you like.



Quote:

prismism said:
You guys are now reduced to bickering back and forth like little girls. Continue the discussion about the damn embossed spore print or shut the fuck up.



please show me where we strayed from debate to personal name calling???
I believe YOU were the first melt of the thread....
What is YOUR theory on embossment, other than STFU sir/ma'am???

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13086713 - 08/22/10 02:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

ARRRRRG the spores leave the gill in an angle far beyond 180 degrees. Some bang into the foil some never make it there. It's enough to leave an embossed spore print, i will show all of you some proof of a dark print taken on thin foil. It does leave a SLIGHT emboss. Once i got some caps we will have a side by side comparison.

We never said ALL the spores bang into the tinfoil. a fraction of the spores that shoot of the gills at their lowest point are responsible for the emboss.


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Edited by rave420 (08/22/10 02:18 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13086842 - 08/22/10 02:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rave420 said:
ARRRRRG the spores leave the gill in an angle far beyond 180 degrees. Some bang into the foil some never make it there. It's enough to leave an embossed spore print, i will show all of you some proof of a dark print taken on thin foil. It does leave a SLIGHT emboss. Once i got some caps we will have a side by side comparison.

We never said ALL the spores bang into the tinfoil. a fraction of the spores that shoot of the gills at their lowest point are responsible for the emboss.



I'm in, different foils, different air restriction ( bags, jars, open bags, closed ect. ) .....
Does this apply to Doc's efficency thread????
I will also use a few race of p cubies

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13086864 - 08/22/10 02:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Better quality print = more efficient grow.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13086967 - 08/22/10 03:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Far out!!!!
I have PE3 on the way, suppossed to be a spore throwing sub of PE race, I may add this race later. =~}

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13087753 - 08/22/10 07:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:

I disagree with RR as well, look it up, I got banned over it.





Let's get one thing straight right fucking now.  You didn't get banned either by me or for disagreeing with me. 

You got banned by another mod for being an asshole to other members because you fail to understand the difference between a mushroom spore and a plant seed, and the difference between a mushroom substrate and a fertilizer for growing plants.  This is a mushroom forum, not a plant forum, and you don't seem to know the difference.  Now, back the fuck off on this bullshit story that you got banned for disagreeing with me. You weren't and neither has anyone else. :mad2:

The main purpose of the electron micrograph below was to show the distinctive shape of the pleurocystidia in Copelandia cyanescens, but there's a few basidia shown as well, and even in the few that are shown, one can see the individual sterigmata diverging from each basidium at different angles.  As can be seen, some spores will hit the opposite gill surface, others hit another basidium or its spores, but some are ejected up to several inches away when a mushroom is standing upright.  Anyone with a microscope can easily see that the shape of a spore resembles that of an airfoil.  However, it's an airfoil without a control surface, thus they will fly in all directions.  Stamets reports they're ejected at a force of 25,000 times the force of gravity.  He also knows very well how much force this is, since he got a first hand demonstration of the physiological effects of only 4 to 5 Gs in my aerobatic aircraft.

Somewhere around here I have a larger version of that same picture, with the focus zoomed out.  It's probably on one of my backup hard drives, but shows about a hundred basidia, and one can really see how the spores will go in all directions, not straight across or straight down.
RR



--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13087841 - 08/22/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, you post a question and walk away, and the thread explodes!

I feel good about sparking such a discussion.  RR, I was satisfied with you confirming that my theory is possible, or even likely.  This thread has been very educational.  I am thrilled that RR-- and everyone else-- has taken the time to post such fascinating and interesting information.  Thank you so much!

I am holding off on upgrading foil, and when I take my next prints, I'll look more closely, and post pics...

In the meantime, however, if anyone has pics of their embossed prints, feel free to post!

Once again, thanks all!  Have a shroomy day! :mushroom2:


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13087903 - 08/22/10 07:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

everybody

smoke some weed

:flyhigh:  :gethigh:  :volcano:

and then let's evaluate the plausibility one more time..

The cap that lies on the tinfoil has the bottom of it's gills relatively close to the tinfoil. The underside of the gills is where the spores are ejected closest to the tinfoil. Now, you also have to acknowledge that if a spore hit tinfoil at a high enough velocity that it would leave a dent. A really microscopically small dent of course. There are hundreds of millions of spores that can hit the tinfoil all within a small area, and this would certainly be enough to slightly leave an emboss on the tinfoil, the same way you can sandblast logos onto plastic.

RogerRabbit, if i recall correctly you had access to a microscope. Maybe if time allows it, you should try this one yourself, make a sporeprint on thin tinfoil. Then i would be interested what you would see under the microscope. I am almost certain that the surface emboss would appear smoothly shaped out. What else would be causing this, if not the impact of the spores themselves? I bet it looks just like a sandblasted logo that gave away under pressure...

Also, i'd be interested in how man mcg or mg of spores are released from the cap itself. Do you have an educated guess maybe? Because then we could play around with math and physics some, and calculate how many cm of lead a projectile of the total combined spore mass launched at 25000 x 9.8m/s2 would penetrate. I bet the result would surprise most people.


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Edited by rave420 (08/22/10 07:57 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13088151 - 08/22/10 08:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

How bout we get some pics up of these things. the embossed prints that is.

I really dont care how forcefully they get ejected. Tell me their mass and we can calculate out the terminal velocity and the impact force.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (08/22/10 08:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13088680 - 08/22/10 11:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Got an atomic scale?

Actually, a good set of triple beams should be able to weigh a sporeprint.  Weigh the foil before and after printing.  The gasser is going to be counting all those spores. :shocked:
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSockadin
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,248
Last seen: 19 days, 2 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13088753 - 08/22/10 11:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So I use to use sheets of clear acetate that you can get from any scrapping supply store. They are basically made of plastic, and are easy to sterilize. Easy to use, and a bit harder than foil. Plus they make storage of the prints much simpler, and if you clean them properly they can be reuse able.

  Also they are clear, so you get a nice Clear Print!!!

(edit)

I should have read the entire post. That got way outa hand (Clap...Clap)

  So I love this idea and would love to find a way to take embossing metal and try to get an embossed print onto it, then (god forbid) wash the metal and frame the outlined print.

Also if it does work like a sandblaster, there will be a million different impressions that make up the structure of the spore print (wouldn't be smooth under microscope)

To further the discussion, would this be similar to our finger prints?

Is the embossed print style specific to a strain (race) or each individual mushrooms genetics?

Edited by Sockadin (08/22/10 11:37 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMaharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Sockadin]
    #13089500 - 08/23/10 07:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Pardon your feathers RR.  For the record, I meant I got too hot headed when debating Sir Rabbit and was banned.  Also for the record, I appologized to the mod AND crabbypants RR... Nuff said :smile:

Also, i'd be interested in how man mcg or mg of spores are released from the cap itself. Do you have an educated guess maybe? Because then we could play around with math and physics some, and calculate how many cm of lead a projectile of the total combined spore mass launched at 25000 x 9.8m/s2 would penetrate. I bet the result would surprise most people

^^^^^^ this^^^^^^^
would be VERY interesting

As would the fingerprint theory. 

:popcorn:

Edited by Maharishi_2_U (08/23/10 08:00 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13089509 - 08/23/10 08:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:
Also, i'd be interested in how man mcg or mg of spores are released from the cap itself.




Somebody here has a scale that can measure this.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleandymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13089574 - 08/23/10 08:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I don't remember whether anyone posed this question (though I gotta admit I started skimming when things got stupid :rolleyes:):

Could the drying of the spores collectively cause the embossing effect?

Not to say I find the 'impact' theory implausible, but.


--------------------
How I make spore prints
Trade List
My flow hood

If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say,
"Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper"  -odds

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #13089690 - 08/23/10 09:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

boredcertified said:and calculate how many cm of lead a projectile of the total combined spore mass launched at 25000 x 9.8m/s2 would penetrate.





This launch speed is a useless figure. You have to account for terminal velocity.

For example, lets say you were to stuff a bit of cotton in the end of an air rifle and fire it straight down from the roof of a 4 story building.

It doesn't matter how hard you fire it. It's going to hit the ground at a speed dependent on it's mass and air resistance.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13089777 - 08/23/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Irrelevant.

Bear in mind, when a cap is laying on foil or wax paper for printing, the gills are smashed and many of the basidia are pressed right up against it.  The spores are shot while directly touching the foil, much like a suicidal person putting a gun to his head.  Air resistance doesn't play a part other than for the spores that are far up on the gills.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13089906 - 08/23/10 10:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Lets say the average spore is 5 microns in diameter. Lets say in my analogy the cotton wad is 1 inch in diameter and falls 50 feet, a ratio of 1:600.

600 * 5 microns is 3000 microns. This is .12 inches. So yes, I'm saying a spore can reach terminal velocity in roughly a tenth of an inch of fall. How is that not relevant?


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13090312 - 08/23/10 12:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Spores aren't in free fall due to gravity, so terminal velocity doesn't apply. They are propelled.
In addition, they are aerodynamically sculpted so using a cotton ball as a model isn't very useful.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13090486 - 08/23/10 12:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, they are sculpted like an air foil, so they will float, not so they will slice thru the air like a bullet.

I think it's a great analogy, the cotton ball is being projected also, but its impact velocity has nothing to do with the muzzle velocity, because of it's shape.

Here's another analogy: grab a leaf off a tree and throw it as hard as you can at the ground. The force with which you throw it has virtually nothing to do with the speed it hits the ground.

Where are the pics of this phenomena we are arguing about. I've never even seen it happen to tell the truth. I just looked at a stack of 20+ prints and I see no imprints on the outside of any of them.

:picdidnthappen:


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13090494 - 08/23/10 12:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:I just looked at a stack of 20+ prints and I see no imprints on the outside of any of them.





Really? I've seen it. Hang on, I'll look at mine, see if there's one here.

Here you go:



--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Edited by Doc_T (08/23/10 01:00 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13090653 - 08/23/10 01:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i will remove myself from this discussion pretty soon.

We have neither hard facts nor evidence we can discuss, other than stuff we hypothesize. This is like a fox chasing it's tail.

Someone throw me some numbers, some pictures, or something else that can get us close to results and we're talking. Until then, i have to do experimentation myself, and i see my next open caps coming up in a week or two.

We have no "middle ground" for either side of the argument, just heated debates that tend to get personal really quick.

If some people can't understand or fathom how a microscopic spore can leave a dent on a surface on a microscopic atomic scale then i can't help and have nothing to offer in this discussion. Believe what you want to, i know what holds true in my house.

THANK YOU Doc_T for bringing a picture into this thread, this let's me know i am not alone observing this phenomenon, those are clearly dents left behind by spores shooting out the gills. Again, i can't prove this yet, but nobody else seems to offer another theory that can explain this. Until then, it's the fore of the spores denting the foil :smile:

@anonjon: Your name is "the misinformant" :laugh:
anyway, your analogy with the tree is good. However, imagine there was foil there RIGHT when the leaf left your hand, most of it's energy it got from the throw would still be intact, and would be enough to at least leave a mark on something, don't you think? Same goes for the cottonball. Shoot it at a distance, and you will never feel it. However, place a piece of foil or wax right behind the muzzle, and you will see it leave an imprint on the foil / wax!


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Edited by rave420 (08/23/10 01:32 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekevincoughlin
Stoned

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 229
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13090677 - 08/23/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

High-speed video of a fungus releasing spores at 180,000 g--the biggest acceleration ever recorded in nature. Courtesy of Nick Money, Miami University, Ohio.




Also some spores can be so light they're released like smoke floating "up" into the air. Could explain why some people get spores on the lid of their FC and top of caps.


--------------------
Smoke weed every Sunday and throughout your dreams - Jesus 4:20(The one and only God)

Their are no stupid questions, just stupid people - Mrs Garrison

Edited by kevincoughlin (08/23/10 01:34 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern... Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: kevincoughlin]
    #13090685 - 08/23/10 01:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kevincoughlin said:
High-speed video of a fungus releasing spores at 180,000 g--the biggest acceleration ever recorded in nature. Courtesy of Nick Money, Miami University, Ohio.








Wow,that was cool looking!


--------------------
7 days without waves makes one weak!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: kevincoughlin]
    #13090690 - 08/23/10 01:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

tell me that won't leave a dent of foil :wink:


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13090746 - 08/23/10 01:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So the next step has to be lay a cap on skin and feel for it. Someplace sensitive like the small of your back.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13090754 - 08/23/10 01:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i highly doubt you would be able to feel it.

Now i am moldy concerned about touching mold ever again, what if they shoot their spore deposits under my skin? EEEK!


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: rave420]
    #13090761 - 08/23/10 01:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rave420 said:
i highly doubt you would be able to feel it.




Dude, the spores dent foil!!11!!! :lol:


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLeopardMan
Constantly changing
Male

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: kevincoughlin]
    #13090793 - 08/23/10 01:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kevincoughlin said:
High-speed video of a fungus releasing spores at 180,000 g--the biggest acceleration ever recorded in nature. Courtesy of Nick Money, Miami University, Ohio.




Also some spores can be so light they're released like smoke floating "up" into the air. Could explain why some people get spores on the lid of their FC and top of caps.





Spectacular!


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

-Charles Bukowski-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13090836 - 08/23/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:

Here you go:







Holy Crap! I've never seen that b4.

Can't argue with the video either. That just fucking blows my mind.

I don't see how this argument really got personal. On a speculative level I thought I was right. But in the face of such evidence what can I do but switch sides. :shrug: Great thread.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (08/23/10 02:14 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrum
la muerte peluda


Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 557
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13090872 - 08/23/10 02:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)






This launch speed is a useless figure. You have to account for terminal velocity.

For example, lets say you were to stuff a bit of cotton in the end of an air rifle and fire it straight down from the roof of a 4 story building.

It doesn't matter how hard you fire it. It's going to hit the ground at a speed dependent on it's mass and air resistance.




It is a very important figure.  That bullet has got to cover a lot more distance before air molecules will slow it down to terminal velocity.  A musket ball might slow down a little...4 stories worth of distance aint gonna do shit on anything made after 1870. 

Now a spore is a hell of a lot tinier and as RR cited, moving at the speed of a rifle (avg muzzle velocity around 800fps).  I'm not sure what the weight of a spore is and while the tensile strength of aluminum has been calculated, no numbers have been crunched so far as I can see to calculate pressures to understand what kind of velocity we're talking about that might leave an impression.  But, just for shits and giggles I took a pin and held it about a foot above the tin foil dropped it, and guess what?  Then from 6 inches...guess what?  While the pin weighs substantially more than a spore, the spore is moving a shit ton faster.  Speed certainly matters, if you know anything about guns, a .223 is a pretty tiny bullet, but if there is enough powder behind it, it'll take your head clean off your shoulders from 50 yards.  Spores can imprint upon aluminum is my vote.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: krum]
    #13090884 - 08/23/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

My error was one of scale. My analogy with the air gun wasn't bad, but I didn't realize that it was more like firing an elephant gun than an air gun. This is really an amazing trick the mushroom is pulling off.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerave420
open minded
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13091378 - 08/23/10 04:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yes, but it's hundreds of thousands individual spores hitting the foil, not all at the same time, but drawn out over say, 24 hours.

If you want to place a cap on your back and see if you feel something go ahead, but i am pretty sure i know the likely outcome of this :wink:


--------------------

we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.


:pm:Help me with my collection (trades only)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephaseflux
Stranger than most


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 702
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13094332 - 08/24/10 07:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

anonjon said:I just looked at a stack of 20+ prints and I see no imprints on the outside of any of them.





Really? I've seen it. Hang on, I'll look at mine, see if there's one here.

Here you go:






Those are some pretty strong impressions, but that foil is folded correct? I'm not saying that this can't be something that happens, but i believe a picture of a fresh print which hasn't been folded over would be more conclusive. Also, how open was the cap when it was placed on the foil? The reason I ask is because if the cap was fully open to where the gills were touching the foil, couldn't it be the weight of the cap pressing up against the foil for several hours causing the indentations?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13094342 - 08/24/10 07:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, that one is folded- but I have some here that are not.
This is the sharpest and clearest, but it's also the biggest, so it might be from the folding or not.

Quote:

couldn't it be the weight of the cap pressing up against the foil for several hours causing the indentations?




Edge of the cap doesn't show. Whether it's resting on the rim, or the gills. Only ever see gill lines.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Edited by Doc_T (08/24/10 07:39 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13094513 - 08/24/10 08:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Do the smallest and lightest caps not show this embossing?

They may be "gill lines" from the weight of the cap.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13094552 - 08/24/10 09:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Do the smallest and lightest caps not show this embossing?

They may be "gill lines" from the weight of the cap.




i wondered that too, but look at the very end of the gill line, how theres those deep round pockmarks.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #13094562 - 08/24/10 09:23 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think somebody has a print that will give a better picture than that one.
I also think we should all try making a few prints in the next few days, see what kinds of variables turn up.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13094622 - 08/24/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I do I do,



be right back


--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13094630 - 08/24/10 09:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You could look at a cross section of foil and see if the embossing is caused by gills.., if there are no spores on the reverse side of where the lines are then you know its the gills themselves causing the lines.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13094679 - 08/24/10 10:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well  its pretty hard to get a picture of, but check this out



--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13094831 - 08/24/10 10:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Looks like it was a heavy cap.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephaseflux
Stranger than most


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 702
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13094846 - 08/24/10 10:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pscientist said:
Well  its pretty hard to get a picture of, but check this out






Those are folded over also... and whats worse is that I can see words embossed on there to the left as if you were writing on another print while that one was underneath it.. which implies you placed pressure on it. No offense but I find it even more inconclusive then the pic Doc_T posted.

A fresh print that hasn't been folded over would be better, and one where the cap placing weight on the foil isn't a factor also. Perhaps by leaving a bit of the stipe remaining so that the print is slightly elevated? Tho I suppose the extra space could cause a significant decrease in force.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: phaseflux]
    #13094862 - 08/24/10 10:53 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phaseflux said:
Quote:

Pscientist said:
Well  its pretty hard to get a picture of, but check this out






Those are folded over also... and whats worse is that I can see words embossed on there to the left as if you were writing on another print while that one was underneath it.. which implies you placed pressure on it.





Assumptions assumptions

Okay its not folded over, its a piece of foil against another piece of foil for one, secondly I didnt even make it,

and lastly I didnt write on it, thanks though :awedance:


--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvilMushroom666
Heretic
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13096667 - 08/24/10 05:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A print I recently received. 4 prints, 4 different strains, all embossed like this one. Tried to capture it best as I could:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13137428 - 09/02/10 07:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Here is a print from Redboy (more lavender really) on extremely thin Walmart foil, absolutely no embossing took place from spores hitting the foil.






I do have a number of prints that do show embossing, but they all have been folded over or shipped in the mail first. I have noticed no embossing in freshly taken prints.:shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbBaker
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13137484 - 09/02/10 08:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The air pressure around us is equal to about 33 feet of water.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetokerten
thorough thinker
Male


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 153
Loc: newhereintheusa
Last seen: 13 years, 29 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13137685 - 09/02/10 09:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

couldn't we just gently wash/blow the majority of spores off the foil
and then look with a microscope for dents ?
like a before and after picture ?
with one sheet of foil to account for the pressing/stamp variable
any one see any flaws in this test ?
to me it seems like a pretty definitive way to tell whether or not the foil is actually getting dented, but hey im no expert :shrug:


--------------------
Please, don't believe everything They tell you

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13137689 - 09/02/10 09:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
Here is a print from Redboy (more lavender really) on extremely thin Walmart foil, absolutely no embossing took place from spores hitting the foil.






I do have a number of prints that do show embossing, but they all have been folded over or shipped in the mail first. I have noticed no embossing in freshly taken prints.:shrug:





So then that proves it, letter are tightly bundled together for mailing, and the tightness folds the prints down and leaves the embossing, it seems like the most logical answer


--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJavadog
Continuing along
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13137696 - 09/02/10 09:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not as fun as the exploding spore theory...but Occam's Razor, I suppose.


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pscientist]
    #13137706 - 09/02/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pscientist said:
So then that proves it, letter are tightly bundled together for mailing, and the tightness folds the prints down and leaves the embossing, it seems like the most logical answer





maybe if he took another picture of the same print folded and flattened to see if that would produce the emboss.

i'm still going on heavy caps.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePscientist
KushKaptain
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 2,685
Loc: Sirius X1
Last seen: 6 days, 1 hour
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13137741 - 09/02/10 10:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Its hard to really say, I guess that a heavy cap resting some weight on all its gills could leave the imprint after 18-36 hours of printing.  But I think its from mailing personally.


--------------------
Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePinback
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Europe
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13138784 - 09/02/10 02:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HerbBaker said:
I do have a number of prints that do show embossing, but they all have been folded over or shipped in the mail first. I have noticed no embossing in freshly taken prints.:shrug:




Good thinking, I can confirm this. I took a fresh print with no embossing and folded it. Then I drew a ruler over it to simulate handling pressure. Lo and behold, embossing appeared after doing so.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprozak812
PeruvianEnthusiast?
Male


Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Pinback]
    #13144345 - 09/03/10 07:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pinback said:
Quote:

HerbBaker said:
I do have a number of prints that do show embossing, but they all have been folded over or shipped in the mail first. I have noticed no embossing in freshly taken prints.:shrug:




Good thinking, I can confirm this. I took a fresh print with no embossing and folded it. Then I drew a ruler over it to simulate handling pressure. Lo and behold, embossing appeared after doing so.




I was just coming back to post a similar update, but someone beat me to it, lol.  As the OP, I'm gonna post my findings anyway.  :-D

I took fresh PR prints and looked to see if there was embossing (and I used cheap Great Value foil from Wal*Mart), and I was disappointed to see that there was no embossing.

Then--still curious-- I folded it over and flattened it out by running a tissue over the foil/print on my glass table-- Completely flattening it out... and.. there was embossing!  Not only embossing-- but the embossing occurred on the OPPOSITE side of where the spores would be slamming into the (cheap) foil!

I dunno if this proves my original theory COMPLETELY wrong-- but it certainly makes it seem far less likely.  -And make the mail hypothesis much MORE likely.

Either way, it's still pretty cool.  :thumbup:


--------------------
 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: prozak812]
    #13584583 - 12/05/10 06:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Bumping an old thread to say:

It's gotta be the post office sorting machine rollers, same as we saw in the Wedge Tek thread.
Not as interesting as the ideas we discussed those months ago, but much more likely.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 1 day
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13585484 - 12/05/10 11:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

likely ya.
but fun? naw

MY caps ejaculate spores SO HARD THEY DENT THE FOIL.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: k00laid]
    #13585543 - 12/05/10 12:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I guess the next question is whether anybody has seen dented foil from their own caps... or only through the mail.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineafrosheen
9Lives the cat
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Doc_T]
    #13593416 - 12/06/10 10:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Controlled test would be to suspend the cap a mm or so above the foil surface and see what happens. That and an extremely sensitive microphone in close proximity to the foil to see if it can "hear" the spores hitting the foil.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekevbo
Manure Connoisseur
Male

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 372
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: afrosheen]
    #13593572 - 12/06/10 10:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I wonder if they would sound like bombs dropping. But I'm sure someone is harvesting now.. why not just make a bunch of prints and NOT fold it over and see what happens. It has to be from pressing on the foil

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMind-Rip
Strange-er
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/14
Posts: 255
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: anonjon]
    #20834157 - 11/13/14 09:03 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
The idea that the force of the spores hitting the aluminum and denting it is utter NONSENSE.

It's exactly what doc said. If you take a pen or something and smooth out the print you'll get this affect.

If the spores are landing on top of the cap, then how on god's earth can they also be plummeting to the aluminum with such force that they dent it. Ridiculous. :wow: :wow: :wow:

If you're that serious about it, figure out the maximum terminal velocity of the spore and see how much the impact force would be. I guess a spore reaches terminal velocity in about an inch of fall or less. 




Terminal velocity implies that it's falling at only one g with air slowing it down. So 25000 g's would make quite a difference.


--------------------
The mushroom is love.
The mushroom is life.
Eateth of the fruit body
And you will become one with everything.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebabz89
engrossed:mycophile
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 895
Loc: PNW! Flag
Re: Embossed spore print? I need an explanation. [Re: Mind-Rip]
    #20834204 - 11/13/14 09:14 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh peaking my head into the forums again.:wow: The movement is so nominal and the matter in question so microscopic that mass/weight would have to be a factor here to achieve the desired outcome; or at least my pet hamster Dr. Hammy (including a doctorate in theoretical physics) says. ''this is the only relative data to achieve your goal.'' Too many formulas and expressions to attempt to give you a hypothesis as to why this answer is most likely correct... this suddenly seems like not a cult question anymore:psychsplit:


--------------------
"When the war of love overcomes the love of war, the world will truely be a better places. One love"Bob Marley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Attention Newbies-Make Spore Prints With Foil! Catzeye 22,366 1 02/20/02 01:54 PM
by psilocybinjunkie
* Spore Prints
( 1 2 all )
DERRAYLD 5,017 20 06/01/19 06:02 PM
by Adden
* Attention Newbies-Use Foil to make a sporeprint!
( 1 2 3 all )
Catzeye 25,753 46 02/23/02 12:20 PM
by bluhoney
* How do you use spore prints efficently? dnkyrhubarb 20,231 14 03/03/22 04:07 PM
by Schtarker
* Re: I suck...Help me with my spore print technique Anonymous 4,288 3 04/16/01 11:34 PM
by Anonymous
* how do u take a spore print? shroomer187 3,357 4 10/07/01 03:42 PM
by tchyted
* 2 question's about spore print's The_Mushroom_God 3,884 3 04/14/02 01:33 PM
by Mushroom_Madness
* Spore Printing, Q Zwieback0 2,300 1 08/31/02 07:51 AM
by BeppoMarx

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
5,020 topic views. 24 members, 122 guests and 70 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.076 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 14 queries.