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Offlineknarkkorven
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Unknown psilocybe (magica? physaloides? TI:s look here!)
    #13078505 - 08/20/10 02:55 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Found in Sweden in the same habitat as psilocybe semilanceata.

Has a pelicle and hygrophanous cap.

Grows from old grass.

I strongly feel that it is a psilocybe, but what kind?




Edited by knarkkorven (08/22/10 05:12 PM)


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OfflineChaos_ultt
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13078674 - 08/20/10 03:36 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

These are really cool!

I think they're in the inactive clade though (Deconica)

They look a lot like the former Psilocybe magica.


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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Chaos_ultt]
    #13079017 - 08/20/10 04:49 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Hi kk..

Could be Deconica inquilina.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Chaos_ultt]
    #13079023 - 08/20/10 04:50 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

The caps are also very close to Psilocybe sierrae (= P. subfimetaria
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Forum4&Number=4397850
But the stipe color is not as pale.

P. magica (Deconica magica) is also close, perhaps right. To bad the photo on the site isn't bigger
http://www.entoloma.nl/html/psmagica.html

Terve Mikael! No, I don't think they look the same, wrong cap shape http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Psilocybe_inquilina.jpg/800px-Psilocybe_inquilina.jpg


Edited by knarkkorven (08/20/10 04:53 PM)


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13081146 - 08/21/10 01:30 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

doesnt look like a subfimetaria to me? is it growing on dung? they are a dung lover. and those stems are way wrong i think,look at how dark it is and all the fibrils.

i think definetly its a deconica. my guess is maybe Deconica physaloides if thats what its called now, formerly psilocybe physaloides.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #13081537 - 08/21/10 04:08 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I have two more photos. Habitat and a closeup.



psylosymonreturns: Well... The tall grass on the left is a pile of cow dung from one or two years ago. The cows avoid eating grass growing from it, creating tussocks with taller grass. Workman's photos shows mushrooms growing from old grass / old manure (?) and has the comment "Original singular specimen was collected in a field with Psilocybe semilanceata".

P.physaloides is another mushrooms hard to find info (pics/descriptions) of. There are a couple of records on mushroom observer, but those grow on wood.

Found http://web.natur.cuni.cz/cvsm/CM60203.pdf with some more info on p. magica. The moss Campylium stellatum is present in all habitats where I find libs, often even attached to the bases, would most probable be around my unknown findings to.

This seems to be a harder nut to crack than I thought. Or is it? Where are the TI's? Alan? Workman? :wink:

To bad I can't find it in my pile of libs, they where all stuck together and broke apart to easy, being transported home in a plastic bag in my pocket. So I don't have spore prints or any other remains.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13081954 - 08/21/10 10:09 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

i still think its a physaloides. look how the stem fattens up at the apex. that is feature of this mushroom,see the darkening base with the fibrils? another feature.see those distant gills?  these characteristics are not seen on a subfimetria. they are known to grow in soils, and field forest interfaces. they may be wood in the ground. how old is this field? was this found on the edge of the field?
i know you want these to be subfimatarias but they are not.i gurantee this my friend. i am sorry. :hug:
they look inactive , dont they?at least they do to me. deconicas dont look active.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #13082705 - 08/21/10 02:17 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

That info is from Magic mushrooms of the world, right? Or any other source? Flora Agaricina Nederlandica perhaps?

A close match, yes. But the photo, (the only I can find that is "verified") have other features, like the cap shape. Looks more like p./d. montana which it is considered to be synonymous for, and habitat/substrate is not spot on.

Quote:

i know you want these to be subfimatarias




I can see the differences, but there could always be variations. The color and texture of the stipe points to deconica, I agree. That is most probable. :smile: Just looking for mushrooms matching macroscopically .

I would like to see more photos of p./d. magica but can't find any :frown:


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13086362 - 08/22/10 02:39 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

this is one i believed to be a subfimetaria which i found last year. but because it was my first day of the season out i didnt have my shit together and i mixxed these up.:sad: plus i was also just figuring out my camera.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13086378 - 08/22/10 02:43 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

this is one i believed to be a subfimetaria which i found last year. but because it was my first day of the season out i didnt have my shit together and i mixxed these up.:sad: plus i was also just figuring out my camera.


you can see the samll patch of 3 mushrooms growing off the right side of the dung pile. look at those purple spores!! i was sure these were subfimetarias as i have been looking for them for since like 96-97 when i first got PMOTW. i was pretty disapointed in myself shittin the bed on these. those spores hould have gone to workman!


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InvisibleBobzimmer
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #13086988 - 08/22/10 05:41 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with Psylosymon. Psilocybe physaloides.


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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #13087099 - 08/22/10 06:10 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I think Psilocybe montana shows close resemblance


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Bobzimmer]
    #13088002 - 08/22/10 10:13 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bobzimmer said:
I agree with Psylosymon. Psilocybe physaloides.




thanks Bob :thumbup:


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #13089621 - 08/23/10 11:18 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

And physaloides is considered to be montana... So what I found is in other words montana? Growing from grass in a cow pasture, unlike it's normal habitat in mossy forests. Ok. If you say so. :wink:

Quote:

Name: Psilocybe physaloides
Author: (Bull.) Quél.
Citation:
Preferred Synonym(s): Deconica montana (Pers.) P.D. Orton
Deprecated Synonym(s): Psilocybe montana (Pers.) P. Kumm., Agaricus montanus Pers., Agaricus montanus var. montanus Pers., Agaricus physaloides Bull., Deconica atrorufa sensu auct., Deconica physaloides (Bull.) P. Karst., Psilocybe atrorufa sensu auct.




http://mushroomobserver.org/name/show_name/5347?q=1UFz


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13089809 - 08/23/10 12:16 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

well i am not sure whats up with that page because how could it be a physaloides and a montana at the same time!!?? they are 2 different mushrooms with different characteristics and even different spore sizes and shapes. HOW the hell could they be the same?

i dont think much time is spent on that page or has even been updated in a while. they still call it a psilocybe when obviously its inactive and should be a deconica.Herb was the last to update it back in 09.

i dont agree with that page, so the habitat isnt that wierd. there could easily be wood underneath the ground, and you never answered my question if it was by the edge of the field.
considering you think its a subfimataria which it is obvious it isnt,a physaloides is a perfect match.and it is that , i would bet you $.
you asked for  TI and bob is a respected TI ,just because he agreed with me you write him off???
i know your type, you know better then everyone.your the smartest.your swedish.you must be perfect.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #13090193 - 08/23/10 01:53 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

considering you think its a subfimatariote




No, I don't and never did. I was proposing it as ONE of many candidates. As you can read in #13079023 I am myself against it as the stipe colors don't match and I lean more towards deconica. So, please don't tell me what I want to believe or think.

And I have from the beginning asked for more photos of physaloides or any other sources than what's in Psilocybin mushrooms of the world, which is quite old and have wrong info on several other species described in it.

I am glad that bob had time to look in this thread and answer, but he doesn't tell what features he is basing that decision on. Is it just because you name dropped physaloides, is it the same features you point out or is it something else?

You are welcome to think this mushrooms are whatever you want it to be, I am just questioning why you are so certain and want to discuss it. The fact is that physaloides is mentioned in only 16 threads on The Shroomery, and half of them are listings of psilocybe in states/countries, the other half is guesses on mushrooms, and none look like this. And only one photo of it (from PMOTW) makes it a very rare mushroom. But that's great if you can narrow it down with that fat upper stem and fibrils on the dark stipe, and rule out other pretty much unknown deconicas (like magica). I just wish I had the same knowledge.

And i think the source for Mushroom observers montana info is from Flora Agaricina Nederlandica (p.34). I don't have access to p.33 so I don't know in what context is is mentioned.

Quote:

i know your type, you know better then everyone.your the smartest.your swedish.you must be perfect.




And you are american, with the worlds biggest self confidence and best judgement. :wink: Vote Bush for president! Yeah! hehe, just kidding. I respect your input psylosymonreturns.

edit: damn, you're canadian, right? Then I have no good insults. :laugh:


Edited by knarkkorven (08/23/10 02:50 PM)


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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13090267 - 08/23/10 02:09 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

I found exactly these same mushrooms today. Same habitat, amongst the grass near libs. Thought they were just another LBM. I'll gather and photo some the next time I hunt.


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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Lanceata]
    #13090427 - 08/23/10 02:40 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lanceata said:
I found exactly these same mushrooms today. Same habitat, amongst the grass near libs. Thought they were just another LBM. I'll gather and photo some the next time I hunt.



I'm so pleased you said that, they do look like one I've seen as well.  I played with it and figured it might be an inactive Deconica but left it, because there's only so many varieties of small and large mushroom you can carry around in good nick and remember what's what.  Next time I'll also be paying attention.


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: Joie]
    #13090937 - 08/23/10 04:40 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. Please, take the camera with you next time. I will check the same place for it again, I must find some more, take spore prints and better macro photos in a light tent at home. If it is physaloides, magica,  or any other rare deconica (rare = not many photos on the web) I think I have to make that situation better.

At least, you will get some better reference photos when you have to correct a stubborn swede the next time :wink:


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Re: Unknown psilocybe (help me with ID) [Re: knarkkorven]
    #13091254 - 08/23/10 05:56 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Ok....I agreed with Psylosymon because of what I saw in PMotW. The dark stem with the silver fibrils is somewhat distinctive and I'd say a good match. The cap, habitat and range also match the description.

I've never found Psilocybe physaloides, but I've found D. montana and unless this is a variant, this isn't that.

The distinction between Psilocybe and Deconica is a complete mess at this point. Many species fit clearly into one or the other, but many species need to be tested genetically and perhaps chemically to properly name under the "new way". The new Psilocybes will be the ones related to P. semilanceata and the Deconicas will be centered around D. montana and D. moellerii. I would guess these mushrooms fall somewhere in near the latter.


--------------------
Mr. Mushrooms said:
I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC.  I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi.  I really do.  I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them.  I think they are beautiful.  I even dream of them.


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