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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Why are you, you?
    #1306939 - 02/14/03 02:37 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ok i was sitting at my computer this morning and was wondering why people believe what they believe. I was never into politics until i was about 18 or so after leaving home. I noticed that there were tons of people in life that used to complain about how unfair they've been treated with thew hand that life dealt them. They would always tell me how lucky i am because i had the ability to afford college (which they didn't know that i was dirt poor and in debt to my ass, without being helped $1 in my education)without knowing anything about me. I believe this conversation shifted my philosophical view of the world (to the extent of my knowledge that is). Since that day i've had a very low tolerance for people that whine about how tough they had/have it.

Can you point to specific time in your life where you said "this is the difinitive point where my philosopical beliefs changed"?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,236
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Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1306959 - 02/14/03 03:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Since that day i've had a very low tolerance for people that whine
about how tough they had/have it.




Just because someone has it worse, doesn't mean I can't complain about how bad I have it. Because by your logic, only the person who has it worse than everyone else in the world can complain. Even the person who has it the second worse can't complain, because someone else has it worse.



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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1306979 - 02/14/03 03:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

They would always tell me how lucky i am because i had the ability to afford college




It's a good thing you never got caught with pot. I'm sure you know that anyone with a pot offence is not allowed to get student loans. Or maybe it's just federal student loans. In any case, that's just insane. INSANE!

Quote:

(which they didn't know that i was dirt poor and in debt to my ass, without being helped $1 in my education)




Yah, but our countries can afford to make education free. Or at least make most of it free...some people think that would be a good thing. Some countries have done that. I think that should be done.

I'm not complaining.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
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Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307016 - 02/14/03 04:12 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Can you point to specific time in your life where you said "this is the difinitive point where my philosopical beliefs changed"?

Yep. It was while I was working the night shift sorting mail at the Canadian post office. This was before the postal code had been introduced -- you had to memorize the entire city, and sort the mail by street name and number. At that time in the city I lived (Ottawa) it involved the memorization of 5500 - 6000 different bits of information. You'd look at a letter, see that it was "1053 Carling Avenue" and without even thinking, you'd flip it into the right slot on the sorting frame. Believe it or not, I can still tell you exactly where "1053 Carling Avenue" goes in a standard sorting frame.

Like you, I had little interest in politics while I was in school, but it was impossible to avoid it at the post office.

Anyway... we'd all be sitting in a long row, each with our sorting frames in front of us, spaced about 5 or 6 feet apart, so it was easy to talk with the guy on either side of you, or even one guy down from that. To kill time, we'd get into these more or less endless discussions about everything under the sun. Everyone who worked there was a member of the union -- union membership was compulsory. The union was full of Marxist-Leninists -- I mean LITERALLY full of them; a lot of the upper echelons were card-carrying members. So naturally a lot of the conversation was politically oriented or philosophically oriented. It didn't take me long to figure out that Marxism was a crock of shit, and that got me questioning Canada's socialist aspects, and eventually even questioning union ethics. The CUPW (Canadian Union of Postal Workers) was an EXTREMELY militant union in those days (early Seventies).

I started reading political stuff from both sides of the fence at home, from Proudhon and Marx to Bastiat and Jefferson, and after seven years of sorting mail at night (SEVEN YEARS -- I still can't believe I lasted that long in that godawful hole) I quit and moved into the private sector.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (02/14/03 04:15 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1307019 - 02/14/03 04:12 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

****Even the person who has it the second worse can't complain, because someone else has it worse. ****

now you're getting it...whining does nothing but take up my oxygen.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1307034 - 02/14/03 04:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

****I'm sure you know that anyone with a pot offence is not allowed to get student loans****

Not if the offense is a misdemeanor...but i and about 99% of those on this site are against the WOD and are for legalization of drugs to some point or another.....

****Some countries have done that. I think that should be done.****

I've always said that education should be dirt cheap. The way i see it is that a country would want the smartest people and what better way to invest in the future then with affordable education. Even if it was just at the Community College level. You will never see me in support of colleges and Universities raising their rates above the cost of living..it's sad..

BTW you never answered the main question of this thread. neither has Learyfan..


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (02/14/03 04:27 AM)


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1307036 - 02/14/03 04:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)


Just because someone has it worse, doesn't mean I can't complain about how bad I have it.

Everybody will always complain, no matter how good they have it. I don't have a
problem with complaining, but I do have a problem when that complaining leads
to defeatism in a person, which in turn leads to inactivity.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Phred]
    #1307043 - 02/14/03 04:26 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i felt the same way in college, i was surrounded by little boys and girls that were only interested in the easy way out and when politics came up i was always in the minority but knew that what the others were saying was a crock.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307044 - 02/14/03 04:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)


Can you point to specific time in your life where you said "this is the difinitive point where my philosopical beliefs changed"?


The definitive philosophical occurrence in my life was going from being a liberal
to being libertarian oriented. I can't really nail down when the conversion took
place. It happened over an extended period of time.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Phred]
    #1307264 - 02/14/03 06:26 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It didn't take me long to figure out that Marxism was a crock of shit

I get the impression you'd already made your mind up before then pink.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307270 - 02/14/03 06:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i felt the same way in college, i was surrounded by little boys and girls that were only interested in the easy way out and when politics came up i was always in the minority but knew that what the others were saying was a crock.

Sounds like you've got a pretty big chip on your shoulder inny. I've no doubt many of those "little boys and girls" had it far, far harder than you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1307294 - 02/14/03 06:41 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

****Sounds like you've got a pretty big chip on your shoulder inny****

I have a big chip on my shoulder, i'm egotistic and selfish, who isn't?

****I've no doubt many of those "little boys and girls" had it far, far harder than you. ****

maybe and maybe not...either way whatever cards they were dealt has no affect on how and wether i will succeed or not. I'm the only person that can determine that.

Back to the main point, when did you decide to believe what you believe? I actually want to know...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307645 - 02/14/03 09:50 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

when did you decide to believe what you believe? I actually want to know...

Its constantly changing, many of my views stemmed from my philosophy classes, but even some of those views have changed. Believe it or not, this forum has had much influence on my beliefs. Before partaking in this forum I was a hard Lefty, but after being here for a while and seeing valid points from Rights and Lefts, my view has been evolving into a more moderate stance. For that, thank you guys.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307728 - 02/14/03 10:39 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Can you point to specific time in your life where you said "this is the difinitive point where my philosopical beliefs changed"?



Not really. My parents are liberals and over the years I've just become progressively more and more liberal, tho some people on this board have made certain points that at least made me see the validity of the more conservative view.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (02/14/03 10:40 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307792 - 02/14/03 10:59 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I have a big chip on my shoulder, i'm egotistic and selfish, who isn't?

Plenty of folk.

either way whatever cards they were dealt has no affect on how and wether i will succeed or not

So why worry about it? You sounded a little bitter that's all.

when did you decide to believe what you believe?

I come from a working class background. Watching people destroy their health working themselves to death for a pittance while fat idle bastards got rich off their backs. Watching thatchers cops beat up hard-working miners and their wives during the '84 strike. Seeing that first hand makes you realise fundamental truths that never leave you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
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Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307793 - 02/14/03 10:59 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

People complain for various reasons. Some people complain because other people are more capable than they are. Some complain because they do not have the ability to cope in this type of society,and they feel like misfits. But some people complain because they do not like the way the world is and feel helpless. They are caring people who just feel overwhelmed.

I changed alot when I became a real estate agent. I was given alot of insight into this system . I learned alot about the banking industry and it shattered my illusions of equal opportunity unless you were willing to play the game. I could go on but what is the point


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1307948 - 02/14/03 12:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ive always had opinions on the way the world works, probably from watching TV while younger.  I used to love watching Crossfire on CNN!  I used to see Republicans vs Democrats in a sort of Christian vs New Age mentality.  US politics are by far the most dramatic, and therefore the most fun.

After discovering Libertarianism, while making a great living on my own, I was a staunch conformist for many years.  Funny, I was always against the drug war, although never tried drugs.  It just fits into basic individual freedoms that Libertarianism stands for.  I have a lot of political books ranging across the spectrum.  My favorite US politician is Jesse Ventura! :smile:

It wasn't until I discovered this site that I began to ponder Canadian politics.  I just took the system for granted and wrote it off as boring.  Now I see why Canada is so great.  I am not a Liberal but I think Jean Chretien is a great leader, who truly cares about humanity.  Now I am not a true libertarian because I like many of the socialist policies in Canada.  I vote NDP.  I'm all for gun ownership and individual freedom.  Anti drug war, etc.  I also believe that every human, even if you dont like them, still has a right to life.  It is our duty as human beings to make the world great.  I'm very proud of my country, our health care system, welfare policies, our news media, isolationism w/small army, etc.  I truly believe that Canada is moving in a positive direction and sets a great example for the world. 

I used to be 100% for the US.  After trying to figure out what caused the horrors of 9/11, various facts and opinions opened my eyes.  After learning things through this site, I find myself disgusted with the US government.  The whole country eminates fear and paranoia.  Now that Bush is in office, I find myself missing the good ol days of Clinton, when scandals were hilarious instead of horrifying. 

Go Canada!!!  :grin: 


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man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1307976 - 02/14/03 12:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

****Plenty of folk.****

name one.

****So why worry about it? You sounded a little bitter that's all.****

I don't have a bitter bone on my body. Life's too short to dwell on failures and short-commings. I use what i have and give it my best. Many feel that the best should be given to them...it's sad really.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1308797 - 02/14/03 08:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

name one.

Sara Robshaw. A girl i went to school with who packed in her job as a solicitor and went to live in poverty helping kids in India.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why are you, you? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1309165 - 02/15/03 04:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

everyone in the world is selfish to one point or another. Sure that was a very nice thing to do (whoever she is) but it's human nature to have and ego and tend to be selfish..


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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