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Invisiblemaxphun
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Panaeolus Cyanescens (Wild print - Florida)**UpdateFeb25No.2
    #1306780 - 02/14/03 12:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Species:  Panaeolus cyanescens / Copelandia cyanescens
Strain: Florida (wild) Manatee County

Agar Culture

Multi-spore onto agar (Light malt & yeast) 
Isolated healthy/fast growing section.
Transferred to strong peroxide agar.

Incubation Temp: 75 ? 85 F



Grain Culture

Wheat grain was simmered for 45 min, drained, then pressure-cooked for 1hour 30 min. 
Inoculated 6 x 1 pint Jars with Wheat Grain with 3 agar wedges each inside a homemade glove box.



1 jar out of six stalled no visual sign of contamination but a strong coco smell.

Full colonisation took 2 weeks.

Incubation Temp: 70 ? 85 F



Substrate Preparation

2 Jars Used to spawn pasteurised Hay (Oven pasteurised 170 F for 2 hours).

Hay was submerged in water for 48 hours before pasteurising.



Spawning & Incubation 

Hay was mixed with colonised wheat grain, covered with plastic (wholes punched).

Incubation Temp: 70 ? 78 F

One week later Hay is nearly colonised.




Spawning & Casing Failures

1 Jar was cased in the jar with composed horse dung (***Contaminated***)
2 Jars where used to spawn serialised composed dung and straw. (**little growth **stalled **)

Casing

2 parts Peat and Loam mix
2 parts Vermiculite
1 part fine Limestone grit
2 parts Water

Oven pasteurised 170 F for 2 hours

Casing layer applied.

Depth: 2/3 Inch



Casing layer colonising



Incubation Temp: 70 ? 75 F  (casing surface only) but I would guess the temperature was significantly higher below casing layer.

Primordia conditions have now been introduced....

Primordia Formation Procedure

Humidity: Supplied from wet perlite.
Air temp: 70 - 75 F (from 20th Feb temp = 75 - 84 F)
Air Exchange: 1.5 per hour from aquarium bubbler 18/24
Air Circulation: Computer Fan running 18/24
Light: Diffuse natural light
Exhaust: 4 holes tightly filled with synthetic pillow stuffing

First Pins 3 days after starting the primordia formation conditions.

   

//Update Feb 25th//

Cropping

Humidity: Supplied from wet perlite. Very High due to bottom heat.
Air temp: 75 - 84 F
Air Exchange: 1.5 per hour from aquarium bubbler 24 hour
Air Circulation: Computer Fan running 24 hour
Light: Diffuse natural light
Exhaust: 4 holes tightly filled with synthetic pillow stuffing



//end update//

Credits

Shroomery Forums (Thanks  :smile:)
Stamets & Chilton (1883)The Mushroom Cultivator.

Questions

Does the hay look ready to case? **ANSWERED**
Does the casing Layer sound good? Concerns over burning mycelium with the lime **ANSWERED**
What was the strong coco smell (contamination???)?

Note

This is my first attempt at mushroom cultivation.
I will keep you all updated.   


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Edited by maxphun (02/25/03 07:27 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1306918 - 02/14/03 02:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>Stamets & Chilton (1883)The Mushroom Cultivator.
This is an OLD book :wink:

>Does the hay look ready to case?
Yes.

>Does the casing Layer sound good? Concerns over the burning mycelium
Deffinitely, Pan. cyanescens nearly needs a casing layer.(1/2 inch)

>What was the strong coco smell (contamination???)?
Some kind of bacteria, I guess. 

BTW, your "hay" looks much  like straw. Are you sure it?s hay?


Edited by Anno (02/14/03 02:12 AM)


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Anno]
    #1306935 - 02/14/03 02:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This book was way ahead of its time!!  :grin:

> BTW, your "hay" looks much like straw. Are you sure it?s hay?

I assumed it was hay because it looked different from the bagged straw the supplyer had (pet store). You?re probably right though.

 


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1307324 - 02/14/03 06:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, very commendable Maxphun :smile:

One of the best growlogs so far, and for your first attempt, you are doing a great job.

I can't wait to see your outcome, please keep us updated.

and, yes, I would case that straw, it looks plenty colonized.

Great job!


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1307525 - 02/14/03 08:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Excellent format and results!!!

Joshua


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1307980 - 02/14/03 12:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update Casing layer was applied today- its depth was 2/3 Inch. Fingers crossed.

:smile: Thanks for the encouragement  :smile:
 


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1308329 - 02/14/03 03:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

me crosses fingers for you :smile: :grin: 


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1308359 - 02/14/03 03:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Excellent log. I have found that casing with peat based casings is fine, but they contaminate easier than simple coco coir and verm casings - which ive used with great success. Even after the primordia production has stopped, they casing does not readily contaminate.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1309210 - 02/15/03 05:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Excellent.  Thats 3 Pan growlogs on the go at the same time - should make for some interesting comparisons (results etc).

How long do you intend to incubate the cased hay?  I have found that Pan myc rips through the casing layer real quick (mine was coir/verm).

Keep posting max :grin: 


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: mix_up]
    #1309367 - 02/15/03 08:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> How long do you intend to incubate the cased hay? I have found that Pan myc rips through the casing layer real quick (mine was coir/verm).

As long as it takes for the mycelium to appear evenly. Covering any early appearances of mycelium until an even spread is achieve. I was expecting it to take only a few days to a week, but I don't have any experence of casing.

The colonised hay is not flat, which may cause as few problems?!


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Edited by maxphun (02/15/03 09:24 AM)


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1310764 - 02/15/03 11:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update First signs of growth on the casing layer at two locations. These have been patched with more casing mix.

Concerns

The mycelial growth is not characterized by many thick , white rhizomorphic strands as suggested by Stamets & Chilton (1983), but rather cottony growth.

Question

Is this due to the characteristics of Pan. Cyan. or a problem with casing moisture?

I noticed little rhizomorphic growth through all stages of growth.

Note: Moisture content Casing mix when squeezed only just reveals a few drops of water. I am thinking of spraying the surface lightly with boiled water.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1310806 - 02/16/03 01:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>The mycelium growth is not characterized by many thick , white rhizomorphic
>strands as suggested by Stamets & Chilton

This is completely understandable, since the above characteristics are only valid for P. cubensis, NOT Pan. cyanescens.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Anno]
    #1311155 - 02/16/03 08:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

On behalf of myself and I think Max -Phew !!!!!  I was getting worried about the cottony myc as well - especially as Stamets suggests that non Rhizo myc is more prone to overlay.  :tongue: 


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Anno]
    #1313067 - 02/17/03 02:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Anno you have set my mind at ease.

Update: I have added a picture of the casting layer. It was taken shortly after patching the first signs of mycelium growth to help encourage an even pin set. Since then patches of mycelium have become visible in about a 1/4 of the casing. This has been lightly covered once again with casting mix. I think this will be my last attempt at patching, once the mycelium brakes through again I will be introducing fruiting conditions.


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Edited by maxphun (02/17/03 07:19 AM)


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1315750 - 02/18/03 03:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update: Casing pictures & Primordia Formation Procedure added.

Concerns: Temperatures have been lower than expected (70 - 75 F).


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1316401 - 02/18/03 10:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

RAISE TEMP!!!

all my pan cyan failures were because of low temps, and poor air exchange, once you add bubblers, or fan enough, then it's only a concern of temp. I always kept mine at 80deg. and that was perfect, i would get much less fruit at 75, and none in the 70-74 range, hardly.


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1318933 - 02/19/03 10:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

{{{{{{{RAISE TEMP!!!

all my pan cyan failures were because of low temps, and poor air exchange, once you add bubblers, or fan enough, then it's only a concern of temp. I always kept mine at 80deg. and that was perfect, i would get much less fruit at 75, and none in the 70-74 range, hardly. }}}}}}}}}}}

TRUE TRUE!!!!


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1319094 - 02/19/03 11:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The problem is that the introduction of fresh air into the grow area lowers the temp to room temperature (70 F). Running the bubbler less raises the temperature, but fresh air targets calculated for 2 exchanges per hour, require the bubbler to be on at all times.

One way to solve this problem is to run a heater fan in front of the pumps input. This works very well, but is very costly to run.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1319539 - 02/19/03 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

gotta do what you gotta do. I never had good results with 70 deg temps, when i was in amsterdam. I only had results with 80 deg temps.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1320409 - 02/19/03 07:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Throw a heater blanket under it and solve both you problems by being able to run the bubbler 24/7


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1320588 - 02/19/03 09:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ive grown pans at temperatures ranging from 70-77 normallay around 22C and the only difference ive noted is that they tend to pin faster at higher temperatures. Certainly i cannot see any reason who slightly colder temps would cause the casing to 'fail'.
Quite the opposite infact when you consider that most contaminants are more prolific in higher temperatures. As long as the temperature is maintained at a steady level and air exchange is provided they will perform.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1320718 - 02/20/03 12:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Psssssttttt.....A seed mat warmer works perfect....  :cool: 


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: BlueJay]
    #1320769 - 02/20/03 01:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have been using an aquarium heater in a container directly below the fruiting chamber. This it not adequate though. I have now added insulation around the chamber and placed a heated seed tray filled with wet perlite below the fruiting tray (inside the fruiting chamber). I will be monitoring the temperature closely.

Thanks everyone for the advice.  :smile: 
 


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1321101 - 02/20/03 06:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Temp has stabilised between 75 ? 79. It worked :smile:.
Slower and less fluctuation in temp also. 


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1321106 - 02/20/03 06:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

awesome, can't wait to see the results. You're sure you're getting enough air exchange? that's the only reason left to fail.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1321126 - 02/20/03 06:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I calculated the required air exchange using the formula in the Mushroom Cultivator and checked the amount of air my pump was shifting by filling a plastic bag with a known volume for a set period of time.

My calculations where about 1.7 exchanges per hour, the required is 2 exchanges according to the Mushroom Cultivator, but the chamber is not constantly sealed so I think this would be adequate.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1321544 - 02/20/03 09:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wow, good job.

best of luck to you friend =)


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print:Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1326285 - 02/22/03 11:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update:

First pins have appeared :smile:. It?s a wonderful day. 

See picture in first post  :grin: 


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print:Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1327606 - 02/22/03 11:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Congradulations!!  Your temps at 77C right?  My second casing looks identical to yours but no pins yet.

I have to take my hat of to you mate (i've been cultivating for 10 months and grown 4 types of cubs)  and I still have'nt nailed Pans!

5 stars to you ! well earned. :cool: 


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print:Florida) [Re: mix_up]
    #1327731 - 02/23/03 01:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks Mix up,

My temp is now between 76 - 84 F.

More pictures coming soon.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print:Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1329830 - 02/23/03 09:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Looking Great!!! That's an awesome job, especially considering this is your first try. My friend is pretty experienced and his only got to be a bit taller than those pins, and that's when they grew at all. You are already a talented cultivator. Where did you get your straw? Was it a particular brand name or type (wheat, etc)?

Thank you.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (Wild print - Florida)**Update Feb 24** [Re: maxphun]
    #1329956 - 02/23/03 11:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update

The pins are developing nicely. They seem very thin, but as I have read this can be expected with Pan cyan. I love the cameral colour heads. I am very pleased.

3 New pictures added  :smile: . See first post..... 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Where did you get your straw?

Pet shop (no brand name).


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Edited by maxphun (02/23/03 11:20 PM)


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1332844 - 02/24/03 10:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update:  :laugh:

Cropping section has been added to the log.

Still more pins are developing and the shrooms are growing nicely.

Concerns   :confused:

There is no humidity gauge so I am concerned that the humidity is too high for good fruit body formation. All surfaces in the grow chamber have large water droplets. Ocaionally water droplets land on the casing surface.   


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1333507 - 02/25/03 07:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Update: 3 More Pictures added (see first post).

What do you all think?



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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1334337 - 02/25/03 11:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

jeasously, coming over me. No seroiusly YOU BA'STAD. Seriously take a pic of your air circulation system AKA computer fan. Thats the ony difference between your set up and mine! I come home every night full of expectactions and Nout!!! then I look at your log and feel like crap !!! aHHHHHHHHaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, well done !!!"! keep the pics coming


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1334416 - 02/25/03 12:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

great job and dont mist them babes much or they wont put out for you......They will abort fast...One or two squirts of very fine mist a day are the max...


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: BlueJay]
    #1334439 - 02/25/03 12:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Id suggest not misting them at all. They tend to mature fast and its not worth the risk. The few times ive misted bm fruitbodies they have gone dark blue within 24 hours.
They look very yummy!
Ill have to try Bluejay's straw methods - im used to manure, but it sounds interesting.


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1336364 - 02/26/03 12:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have never misted them. The humidity is very high because of the heated seed tray, which is filled and surrounded with perlite. I feel this is providing too much humidity, some of the smaller Shrooms are covered with fresh mycelium. I am going to try a few things to lower the humidity without lowering the temp.

The heated tray filled with wet perlite would be perfect for cakes as it provides perfect temp and very high humidity.


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Edited by maxphun (02/26/03 01:36 AM)


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1336379 - 02/26/03 01:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Air exchange and circulation system

Computer fan - attached on the top of the camber lid.



Computer Fan housing - directing the air across the casing surface.



The bubbler is placed directly below to computer fan, so fresh air is circulated.



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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: BlueJay]
    #1337617 - 02/26/03 12:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Some bad news !!    :frown:

Some of the shrooms are turning black I assume they are aborting. It?s probably due to the high humidity. I have removed some of the wet perlite to see if this helps reduce the humidity. I hope they pull through..

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. ...


 


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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1338354 - 02/26/03 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Put your heating device on a timer so its warm for 12 hours and cool for 12 hours..This mimics the day and night differences in nature.Keep the air on 24 though.....Has worked miracles for a friend that grow show quality pans...


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


Edited by BlueJay (02/26/03 05:43 PM)


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: BlueJay]
    #1339023 - 02/26/03 11:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks BlueJay - I will give it a go.


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Invisiblemaxphun
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1339049 - 02/27/03 12:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Abort Pictures:  :frown:




 


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1339466 - 02/27/03 06:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

now clone your largest fruit and you'll have a fruiting strain of pan. cyan

looks like it might have just been shabby because it was MS. MS tend to have extremelly varying yields w/ pans - in my experiences.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinemix_up
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: maxphun]
    #1341469 - 02/27/03 09:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Shit !

I think all this proves a point. Pans are NOT as easy to grow as cubs. By the way my casings have still done nothing.

Whats MS? type of strain?


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: mix_up]
    #1342180 - 02/28/03 07:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Whats MS?<<<<<<


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: mix_up]
    #1342183 - 02/28/03 07:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Whats MS?....Multispore is what he is trying to say..... I personally would not clone but take spores from many large fruit generations..Just my opinion..STABILIZE THE GENETICS SO YOU CAN KEEP THE STRAINS FOR EVER ..CLONING WILL SECENATE(SP?) ..No good.....


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: BlueJay]
    #1342761 - 02/28/03 12:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

cloning will senesce after cloning a clone of a clone of a clone, perhaps - but one clone, taken as your culture is how a lot of fruiting cultures are taken. It's how stamets gets a lot of his strains, i.e. his morel strain.

With pans I had the best results with a Multispore inoculation, where i got a shitty flush, cloned the largest fruit, and from then on I had nice yields. I have kept this clone culture as close to origination as possible. I believe it's only on petri generation 2, and it generates dense flushes, tall robust fruits (under the right conditions of course). I attempted to isolate a strain from spores as well, i couldn't get any fruit from that isolation though (i slacked a great deal, and only took 1 growth from the original innoc, and attempted to go from there, instead of the normal 4-5 wedge per dish route (where i wait for fruiting in vitro), and continued until there was no sectoring)


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (wild print from Florida) [Re: Raadt]
    #1343290 - 02/28/03 04:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ive found this especially with wild prints. You can get four or five isolates going, and one or two will fruit well, and one will barely fruit and the other two refuse to all together.
When ive grown domesticated cambodian pans i got good yields with multispore, but my wild aussies were more variable.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Panaeolus Cyanescens (Wild print - Florida)**UpdateFeb25No.2 [Re: maxphun]
    #4069335 - 04/18/05 06:30 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

OOoo Manatee county!!
Those are my babies!!!!

Those spores must have came from me

:tears: :hugs:  :smile:

GG :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

are there other people who have grown these
and posted results?
-ive sent out plenty of prints over the years
but never seen anything past the agar-work

its too bad they aborted but shheesh its your first try

its your first try growing mushrooms and look what-you-done!
outta this world,
im happy to see this.

GG


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Panaeolus

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