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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
Salvia Divinorum seeds * 1
    #1306691 - 02/13/03 08:38 PM (21 years, 20 days ago)

How common are salvia seeds? I know they exist because there are photos, so why is it so impossible to buy them? How hard is it to get a plant to produce them?

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OfflineAudi0
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Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: zeta]
    #1306789 - 02/13/03 10:12 PM (21 years, 20 days ago)

i belive it is extrememly hard to grow salvia from seeds and thats why they arent sold.


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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: zeta]
    #1306945 - 02/14/03 12:48 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

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Invisibleperuvian spark
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Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 680
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1306955 - 02/14/03 01:04 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

I recieved some Salvia plants several years ago and two of them had flowers on them when I got them ( no seeds ). One plant still remains and hasn't flowered since. I imagine an artificial photoperiod could be implemented to force them to flower, they shouldn't be any harder to flower than any other member of the salvia family.  :wink: 


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: peruvian spark]
    #1307000 - 02/14/03 02:02 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

a friend had many flowers this season. no seeds yet though manual pollination is being applied. you're right it isn't so much that the seeds are hard to germinate as it is the fact that salvia rarely produces seeds.


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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: peruvian spark]
    #1307203 - 02/14/03 03:57 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

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Invisibleperuvian spark
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Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 680
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1307215 - 02/14/03 04:02 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

Hmmm... Maybe it takes more than just the amount of light the plant recieves, maybe it has to be a certain quality as well. Mexico and Hawaii are pretty sunny places, so maybe flowering could be induced under higher wattage lights. I don't really care if ours ever flowers, but I'd really like to smell one someday.... I like flowers!  :wink: 


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: peruvian spark]
    #1307282 - 02/14/03 04:36 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

my friend's flowered on it's own in natural light. light intensity doesn't seem to be the determining factor.


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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: peruvian spark]
    #1307288 - 02/14/03 04:38 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1307521 - 02/14/03 06:14 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

Has anyone ever looked into the chance of a symbiotic realtionship in the rooting medium? As this could have been lost through the fact it takes cuttings so easerly and became the most common form of propergation.
Just a stoned thought :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: G a n j a]
    #1308056 - 02/14/03 11:16 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

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Offlineuno
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Registered: 04/06/02
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Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1308170 - 02/14/03 12:09 PM (21 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

That hasn't been looked into as far as I know.

Since any symbiotic relationship would have more likely formed in the indigenous area I think it is unlikely that is a factor.

One clue is that the plant was moved to a new environment and THAT forced it to produce seeds. I find that to be highly interesting and there is where I would start the research.

Cheers,


Is your hypothesis that it seeds because its in a new environment in order to better adapt?


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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: uno]
    #1309101 - 02/15/03 01:42 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

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OfflineChromeCrow
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Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1310198 - 02/15/03 03:38 PM (21 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

As far as Mexico is concerned those plants rarely set seed in the wild either.

So far as far as I know it is a plant mystery!




not really, take for example the strawberry. yes it does produce seeds, but its major propagation lies in runners. the same applies with salvia D ( in theory), it doesn't produce seeds, because there is not a great need for seed in continuing the species. it roots so easily, that an piece that falls, has a better than 50% chance of rooting. not to mention the "still intact" method of reproduction, where the weight of the plant forces the branches down onto the soil, and they root while still attached


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1313106 - 02/17/03 01:31 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

right on. the more efficient means of propagation will tend to become dominant over time while other means may still be available though not as well developed. it's effectively salvia saying "seeds don't work as well as rooting from the stem so i'm going to focus on rooting from the stem from now on."


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OfflineChromeCrow
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Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: Bilge]
    #1314709 - 02/17/03 03:16 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

thats it. but after reading this, i did sort of ignore the main question lol sorry zeta.

i would say the seeds were due to a little used gene coming into play. take for example your great x 10 grandfather was 4 feet tall, even though your next 9 great grandfathers were 6' 2" and your father 6"3 there is a small chance you will have a short child, or maybe even your greatgrandchild x?. eventually there will be a factor where the gene from the 4' grandfather comes into play. the salvia seeds could be a gene from a time when there wasnt a good chance for rooting to continue the species, and thru some means, the gene gets unlocked and brought into play even though unused for countless years.

what i wonder is wether the seeds were indeed viable? if there is no need for seed, then there should also no need for the pollin to fertilize them. if pollin was abundant or at least in large enough to get the job done, then you should be able to pollinate them yourself in a controlled situation, such as hybredizing roses. and this as far as i know, has not or can not be done, or there would be more seeds available.

either way, i would buy some just to play with lol


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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1314904 - 02/17/03 04:24 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Thanks a lot for your help everybody
I'm glad this turned out to be such an informative thread  :smile:

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Anonymous

Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1315115 - 02/17/03 05:16 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: ]
    #1315745 - 02/18/03 01:30 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Salvia divinorum is a cultivated plant only and never found in the wild.




do you have a link or reference to support this statement? imho, salvia does fine in the wild. it has been found in the wild with and without prior knowledge of man. but i've been wrong before. it begs the question: if it can't grow in the wild, how did man discover it?

http://www.sabia.com/salvia/index.html


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Salvia Divinorum seeds [Re: Bilge]
    #1315767 - 02/18/03 02:05 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

a few sources supporting my belief that salvia does in fact grow in the wild:

1. http://sagewisdom.org/valdes83.html

Ethnopharmacology of Ska Mar?a Pastora (Salvia divinorum, Epling and J?tiva-M.)
Leander J. Vald?s III, Jos? Luis D?az* and Ara G. Paul
College of Pharmacy, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 (U.S.A.) and *Departamento de Neurobiolog?a, Instituto de Investigaciones Biom?dicas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de Mexico, Apartado Postal 70228, Ciudad Universitaria 20, D.F. (M?xico). (Accepted July 10, 1982) [J. Ethnopharmacology, 7 (1983) 287-312]

?Salvia divinorum (Epling and J?tiva-M.) is a perennial herb in the Labiatae (mint family) native to certain areas in the Sierra Mazateca of Oaxaca, Mexico?

2. http://sagewisdom.org/valdes87.html

Studies of Salvia divinorum (Lamiaceae), an Hallucinogenic Mint from the Sierra Mazateca in Oaxaca, Central Mexico
(HTML by Arachnophilia)
Economic Botany 41(2), 1987, pp. 283-291.
L.J. VALD?S III,2,3 G.M. HATFIELD,2 M. KOREEDA,3 and A.G. PAUL2

?after observing the localities in which the Salvia grew, we believe the mint is collected in the highlands and planted in more accessible places, where it becomes naturalized. It is doubtful that the Salvia is a true cultigen.?

Definition of cultigen: "An organism, especially a cultivated plant, such as a banana, not known to have a wild or uncultivated counterpart."

3. http://www.sabia.com/salvia/index.html

THE BOTANY OF SALVIA DIVINORUM (LABIATAE)

"Salvia divinorum, ceremoniously employed by the Mazatec Indians of Oaxaca, is endemic to the sierra inhabited by the Mazatec, its distribution anthropogenic.

Definition of endemic: Native to or confined to a certain region
Definition of anthropogenic: Caused by humans


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