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Offlineeleutheromania
Hitch Hiker ofthe Galaxy

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 31
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"?
    #1305678 - 02/13/03 01:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The title pretty much sums it up.
I couldn't find much info on said question on the net, and I only found one referance to it on the shroomery board, and It wasn't really along the same lines as this.

So I hope this hasn't already been covered, and any input would be greatly apreciated.

Thank you.


--------------------
I rose up towards the ceiling, rolled over, and looked down on my body, lying there in peaceful repose. I thought to myself, "Damn, too much".


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Anonymous

Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: eleutheromania]
    #1305703 - 02/13/03 01:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: eleutheromania]
    #1306121 - 02/13/03 04:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty sure the "l" is silent. Other than that I have no idea sorry!


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Offlineeleutheromania
Hitch Hiker ofthe Galaxy

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 31
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: ]
    #1306900 - 02/14/03 01:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

How in the heck you we pronounce your name?




LOL, I Suppose how it's spelt. I haven't exactly got the opinion of anyone with a decent knowledge of such things. I just came across the word one day (A book perhaps) .looked up it's meaning, I got it from Here eleutheromania : manic desire for freedom. Take it with a grain of salt if you will, but it describes me pretty well.

And thanks Zeta, I thought It may be silent.

Would the rest probably be pronounced pretty much how it's spelt?


--------------------
I rose up towards the ceiling, rolled over, and looked down on my body, lying there in peaceful repose. I thought to myself, "Damn, too much".


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Anonymous

Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: eleutheromania]
    #1306908 - 02/14/03 01:55 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: ]
    #1307171 - 02/14/03 05:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

HEy, You left an 'n?' out of the name.

It is teonan?catl

tee-oh-na-n?-cah-till,

I named my son Teona in 1977. It is from the epithet teonan?catl, after the word. However, the actual word was not this term. see below from Ancient SHamanic Mushroom Names byu John W. Allen.

Quote:

Noted ethnomycologist R. Gordon Wasson (1974, see Fig. 1), reported that Molina had referred to the sacred mushrooms as xochinan?catl. Xochi is the nahuatl word for flower and nan?catl implies mushrooms. The words teonan?catl and nanac?tl were names Sahag?n used when describing several species of entheogenic mushrooms which were indigenous to the New World (Sahag?n, 1956). Nan?catl is also the nahuatl word for meat and is used primarily by Mexican Indians to describe entheogenic mushrooms as well as their edible and poisonous cousins.




Quote:

Wasson (1981) suggested that Teonan?catl could also be interpreted as "sacred mushroom", "wondrous mushroom", or even "divine meat." According to Guzm?n (1990:96), "after Wasson called attention to the word teonan?catl it was used indiscriminately to describe any of the Mexican hallucinogenic mushroom [species]. But Sahag?n applied it only to those mushrooms used by the nahuatl tribe. It no longer has currency; at any rate, neither Reko, Weitlaner, Schultes nor Wasson found [or uncovered any evidence that the word] teonan?catl [was currently] being used by modern indians. However, I [Guzm?n] discovered that a similar [word], teotlaquilnan?catl, was the popular name applied to sacred mushrooms such as P[silocybe] mexicana Heim and P[silocybe] caerulescens Murr. by the indians who use them in the region of Necaxa [in the] state of Puebla--A Nahuatl region . This naturally raises the question: Was the Nahuatl word teotlaquilnan?catl misconstrued by Sahag?n to be [interpreted as] teonan?catl?" (Guzm?n, 1960).




mj



Edited by mjshroomer (02/14/03 05:58 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1307223 - 02/14/03 06:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: zeta]
    #1307443 - 02/14/03 07:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the "L" is not silent, but not fully pronounced either. it's a different pronunciation made by forming the "T" sound with the tongue against the side teeth instead of the front ones, resulting in a very slight "L" sort of sound.


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Offlineeleutheromania
Hitch Hiker ofthe Galaxy

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 31
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1308279 - 02/14/03 03:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks heaps for clearing that up MJ  :smile:

As usual you never cease to amaze me, and your sons name is really cool. what does he think of it though? I assume he knows the full details of what his name means.

Oh and sorry about the spelling mistake, I ctrl+C'ed it from erowid, and just assumed thats how it was spelt.  :tongue: 


--------------------
I rose up towards the ceiling, rolled over, and looked down on my body, lying there in peaceful repose. I thought to myself, "Damn, too much".


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: eleutheromania]
    #1310839 - 02/16/03 02:57 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Difficult... I'd say phonetically like

Tee-yo-nana-cattle

or something. Another Holy name for Shrooms is

Dishitholerraja

Pronounce THAT  :grin:

 


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: Asante]
    #1311088 - 02/16/03 07:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wiccan_Seeker,

The actual epithet is:

di-shi-th?-le-nraja (the fungus like those grow on cow dung).

It is use to describe Psilocybce subcubensis amongstr cetrtain Mazatec Shamans.

There are also manty variations of the woerd used by others, which is basically similar in meaning.

I won't post a lot since this one is suffient.

Mjshroomer

See:

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/articles.

Read Ancient Shamanic Mushroom Names of Mesoamerica and Other Regions of the World.

mj

ANd the C in teonan?catl is pronounced as Ka witrh the accent on ah not cat as in cattle.


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OfflineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
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Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1312936 - 02/17/03 12:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Pronouncing a language you've never heard spoken is quite hard, especially when there's several translations around like
Teunanacatl
to make it more confusing I'm a Dutch national and pronounce stuff in a way unspeakable for english folk. Cant phonetisize it: unpronouncable.

To dwell a little off-topic: Ipomoea Violacea (= I.Tricolor etc) is called
Tlitlitzin or Tlitliltzin, I've read. Now I can pronounce that, but I guess it's impossible to get it right. I mean: different languages use different SOUNDS that simply have to be heard. Take our province of Limburg. There they speak with a "soft G". Well, I can tell you it sounds like 'gay' as some gays would pronounce it, but that doesn't help. Same goes with the R. All of Holland makes an R akin to that in Retro of it, but in Rotterdam and Amsterdam it sounds like they're spitting!
Now that's just provinces in a tiny country.
There should be Aztec/mazatec etc. MP3s on this!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: Asante]
    #1313262 - 02/17/03 06:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The language is Nahuautl, the language of the Aztecs.

THis is how I have heard R. Gordon Wasson use the epithet. And Many other scholars in both the the USA and in Europe, including the late R. E. Schultes, Jonathan Ott, Andrew Weil, Albert Hofmann, Jochen Gartz, Giorgio Samorini, Tjakko Stijve, Mexican Authority Gast?n Guzman, WAde Davis, Timothy Plowman, Ram Dass and even my friend Arno Adelaars who wrote the Dutch Book "Alles over Paddos", and Hans van den Hurk who owns the Conscious Dreams shops including Veronique's Kokopeli S,mart Shop pronounces the word as I wrote it above.

That list would also include both the McKenna brothers although Terence is dead, he pronounced as I did and I known many other scholars whoalso pronounce it as I did.

Yes none of us know what the Nahuautl language sounded like, but that pronounciation is the closest to it.


mj

And other similar words here are now included. However each one means several diffrerent things.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (02/17/03 06:39 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pronunciation of "Teonancatl"? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1313264 - 02/17/03 06:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ott pronounces that word as Til-lit-lit-zin,

mj


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