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Anonymous #1

Security clearance question
    #13021079 - 08/08/10 10:21 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hey shroomery, I'm going to be going up for a few jobs that require a security clearance in the US. Problem is that I have a fuckload of skeletons in my closet and I'm worried that I might not be able to get cleared.

Here are the two factors I know are going to cause me problems and have been keeping me in a cold sweat:

1) Dual citizenship (US and another EU country)- I have 2 passports and have traveled and lived extensively outside the US for the past 5 years. For the past 2 years I have been living in an EU country and getting discounted education by virtue of my passport. Also I should mention that I got my citizenship in 2005 through my father.

2) Drug use: Used to smoke weed but stopped around 5 years ago. Haven't touched it since. Shrooms are another story, I did them several times over the past few years and actually grew them here (in a country where it was legal to grow them) but haven't taken or grown them in about a year and a half. I'm pretty sure that a bunch of people around here are aware of that and would probably cough that up to an investigator.

Supposedly for these things it's best to be completely candid and that's what I'm going to do. I don't plan on touching drugs ever again and am willing to sign an affidavit to that effect as well as renouncing my dual citizenship. Do I even stand a chance at getting clearance or am I irrevocably fucked?

Thanks guys.

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Anonymous #2

Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13021307 - 08/08/10 11:22 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The dual citizenship is probably you're biggest problem. You'll probably be automatically disqualified because of it - sorry.

If you're not, I wouldn't say a goddamn fucking thing about the drugs if it's been that long. If your friends have any sort of wits about them, they'll keep their mouths shut if interviewed.

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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #13024171 - 08/08/10 10:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


The dual citizenship is probably you're biggest problem. You'll probably be automatically disqualified because of it - sorry.





^^^This!

Security clearances are rarely granted to those with dual citizenship even if the applicant is willing to renounce foreign citizenship. Your chances are almost nil if you obtained your foreign citizenship more than several years after your birth. Your extensive time overseas also does not help your case.


--------------------
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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13024243 - 08/08/10 10:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Communist Druggie.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Security clearance question [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13025001 - 08/09/10 02:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:
Quote:


The dual citizenship is probably you're biggest problem. You'll probably be automatically disqualified because of it - sorry.





^^^This!

Security clearances are rarely granted to those with dual citizenship even if the applicant is willing to renounce foreign citizenship. Your chances are almost nil if you obtained your foreign citizenship more than several years after your birth. Your extensive time overseas also does not help your case.



The first part I know is not true. I think if you can show that you are willing to surrender your passport and don't have extensive personal and family ties abroad it's known as a mitigating circumstance. There are several published cases on the Department of Homeland Security site that show this much:
http://www.dod.gov/dodgc/doha/industrial/2010.html

Also with time spent overseas I heard that this will slow down the process but not necessarily deny it. The part I'm most worried about here is my use and growth of boomers while in this country and the fact that if they sent a background investigator here that would surely come up.

Edited by Anonymous (08/09/10 02:44 AM)

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Anonymous #1

Re: Security clearance question [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #13025003 - 08/09/10 02:35 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ClammyJoe said:
Communist Druggie.



Blow me. If you're not gonna contribute GFTO of my thread.

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Anonymous #3

Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13025063 - 08/09/10 03:10 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How would they know you are a dual citizen? When I was born my parents applied for two citizenships, United States (my father is American) and Australian. On both citizenship forms my parents could truthfully state that I was not a citizen of any other country, as they were both filled in at the same time.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #13025188 - 08/09/10 05:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

> How would they know you are a dual citizen?

Because it is their job to find out things like this... they will know.

The travel and living abroad are going to be your biggest problems.  I wouldn't mention anything about drugs unless asked.  If asked, try to keep your answers in the present, as in "I do not use illegal drugs" rather than "I no longer use illegal drugs".


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Security clearance question [Re: Seuss]
    #13025252 - 08/09/10 05:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> How would they know you are a dual citizen?

Because it is their job to find out things like this... they will know.

The travel and living abroad are going to be your biggest problems.  I wouldn't mention anything about drugs unless asked.  If asked, try to keep your answers in the present, as in "I do not use illegal drugs" rather than "I no longer use illegal drugs".



Thanks Seuss.

Wont they also ask if I have ever used illegal drugs? At that point I would either have to confess or lie, right?

Also, is there anything I can do to mitigate their concerns about my travel and life abroad? I'm just here doing a Master's degree. Also, perfectly happy to give up passport. I saw that's supposed to help with the mitigation part.

I initially wanted to rack up travel and international experience to make myself a more attractive applicant and had no idea this would end up biting me in the ass.  :cruelworld:

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OfflineGulfripper
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Registered: 10/14/09
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13025431 - 08/09/10 07:38 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Dual willl be hard DO NOT mention shit about drugs. Maybe say I smoked marijuana once and it made me feel funny and not enjoy it. Its a super long process and a pain good luck.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Security clearance question [Re: Gulfripper]
    #13025438 - 08/09/10 07:41 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Gulfripper said:
Dual willl be hard DO NOT mention shit about drugs. Maybe say I smoked marijuana once and it made me feel funny and not enjoy it. Its a super long process and a pain good luck.



What if they find out about drugs from one of the interviews they do with someone who knows me? Especially the shrooms... fuck... so many of my friends know that I was into that.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Gulfripper]
    #13025442 - 08/09/10 07:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

> Wont they also ask if I have ever used illegal drugs? At that point I would either have to confess or lie, right?

I've been told that admitting to illegal drug use will immediately disqualify you for a security clearance.  I don't know if this is true or not.  I can't tell you what to do, but in your place, unless on a polygraph machine, I would not admit to any drug use.  (Also, they only go back ten years or until you were 18-years old, whichever is less... so if you used drugs more than ten years ago, or were under 18 at the time, then you are (theoretically) in the clear.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Anonymous #2

Re: Security clearance question [Re: Seuss]
    #13025448 - 08/09/10 07:51 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've seen a few instances (edited DoD documents or something similar) when I was thinking about joining the CIA as a career. A couple were both applying for security clearance and both admitted to smoking weed.

They grilled the fuck out of them in the interview about it for 3-4 pages, but they ultimately passed because they were never "heavy" smokers and had abstained for the last 4-5 years.

Even so, like Seuss said, admit nothing incriminating unless they bring it up.

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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13025537 - 08/09/10 08:41 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I think if you can show that you are willing to surrender your passport and don't have extensive personal and family ties abroad it's known as a mitigating circumstance.




Since you apparently obtained your passport after you were 18 and used it to travel/study abroad, I think you have seriously shot yourself in the foot. Though this case makes it seem like you might be successful: http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/08-02301.h1.pdf.

Quote:

The part I'm most worried about here is my use and growth of boomers while in this country and the fact that if they sent a background investigator here that would surely come up.




I don't know what position/industry you are applying for, but as far as I know there is only one agency that rejects candidates outright for PAST drug usage. I assume your not interested in working for the DEA anyway. If you lie and they find out, you'll obviously be denied. It's up to you to decide whether or not its worth the risk. You could always attempt to wait and apply when those who know about your mushroom use/cultivation become hard to contact and/or irrelevant to the review.


--------------------
Let's upgrade our security practices and move toward client-side PGP for encrypted PMs.
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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13026398 - 08/09/10 12:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:

Wont they also ask if I have ever used illegal drugs? At that point I would either have to confess or lie, right?






They will definitely ask about drugs.

If you have never been caught with drugs they will probably have a hard time finding out about them.  Maybe through parents, a jealous ex, etc.

Admitting to past drug use does not automatically disqualify you, as long as it was some time ago.  Check google and/or a security clearance lawyer about how long that should be.  I think its two years.  Many people pass by being honest about drug use except saying it was further in the past than it was.  If they polygraph you they will try to make a real big deal about the exact amount of time it has been since you used drugs.  Many people consider the exact amount of time to be none of the governments business and successfully lie about it.  Since they consider it a white lie the polygraph can't easily notice stress reactions.

Lying to the feds in this context is a criminal offense, but if they find out they won't charge you, just deny your clearance.

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #13029574 - 08/09/10 11:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

not all clearances are created equal. there's a few "levels" of clearance, and some organizations or employers may have additional rules or stipulations... so before you start worrying about polygraphs and investigators and all kinds of prime-time TV style stuff...

i had a "confidential" clearance many moons ago (actually, it might still be valid :crazy2:). i filled out some paperwork not much different from a job application - had to list any prior convictions (felonies only i believe, i had a misdemeanor on record and dont remember that coming up)... had to list all the addresses i lived at in the past so many years... and a couple of personal references.

i was told there was a credit check (which is honestly one of the most important factors at a low level clearance - for better, or worse, be your credit report as it may..), a basic criminal background check (to make sure i was truthful about priors and of course not currently wanted for something), and that was it.  oh, and a basic piss test for the common 5 panel... none of my references were ever contacted by anybody, i did ask after out of curiosity. they took my prints (:thumbdown:) and my photo. i think it was about a week between submitting my papers and starting my job. the hardest part was abstaining from pot for a month, i wasn't risking a good job with hippy-lore or headshop drinks... ill note that while i believe it was considered a government "sanctioned" clearance, i worked for a private company... it certainly had to do with the nature of the info i dealt with... (back-of-the-house in the financial industry)

i do however have a friend who must have been going for something higher level; hers was with a gov't agency, i remember her having a hard time with a US/CAN dual citizenship and don't know the details, but let's just say she's still working there 5 years later... it was eventually sorted out and she was allowed... (shes the most squeaky clean person i know anyway!)

the only time i've heard of them being really strict on the drug use thing (above and beyond a piss test or felony drug convictions) are for upper level law enforcement, but not so sure it actually falls within the boundaries of the a security check. it's part of the requirements to be eligible to work there; even before your check. ie:

Quote:

Under the FBI's current Employment Drug Policy, an applicant will be found unsuitable for employment if they:

    * Have used any illegal drug (including anabolic steroids after February 27, 1991), other than marijuana, within the past ten years, or engaged in more than minimal experimentation in their lifetime. In making the determination about an applicant’s suitability for FBI employment, all relevant facts, including the frequency of use, will be evaluated.
    * Have used marijuana/cannabis within the past three years, or have extensively used marijuana/cannabis or over a substantial period of time. In making the determination about an applicant’s suitability for FBI employment, all relevant facts, including the recency and frequency of use, will be evaluated.





so unless you're applying at the DEA or something, if you can piss clean, don't sweat it too much. ditto for the citizenship - it may clog the works and there may be some hoops to jump through to satisfy them, but it doesn't doom you... so anyway - my advice, is be honest and not worry too much, especially if you're looking at the most common lower level clearance...

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Offline2859558484
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: creamcorn]
    #13030245 - 08/10/10 03:03 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

polygraph machines are just an interrogation tool- theyre just there to get you to admit to something. I saw on a TV show if you clench your asshole during the control questions, you can throw off the test results.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: creamcorn]
    #13030484 - 08/10/10 06:01 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

> not all clearances are created equal. there's a few "levels" of clearance

Very true.  My clearance was for "TS/SCI" which is towards the more protected end of the scale.  I never had a lesser clearance and have no idea what the differences in background checks are.

> had to list any prior convictions...

Same here... convictions in the last 10 years.

> had to list all the addresses i lived at in the past so many years...

Same.

> and a couple of personal references.

I had to give four "personal" (opposed to professional) references.

> i was told there was a credit check

Same.

> a basic criminal background check

Same.

> oh, and a basic piss test for the common 5 panel.

I never had to take a piss test... though I didn't do drugs at the time, so it would not have been a big deal for me.  This was also back in the early to mid-90's, so things may have changed between then and now with respect to drug testing.

> none of my references were ever contacted by anybody

They interviewed all of my references.  They also asked each of my references for more people that know me and interviewed them as well.  This repeated until they ran out of new people to interview. They also investigated my immediate family.

> they took my prints (:thumbdown:) and my photo.

Same, but I believe this is true of any federal government job.  They took my prints and pictures before I was promoted to a job that required a clearance.

> i think it was about a week between submitting my papers and starting my job.

Mine took around six months.

I also had to sign a release so they could go through my medical records and school records.  I also had to take a polygraph test.  After getting approved, the last bit was a two week training class and a bunch more paperwork including signing a NDA.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineGulfripper
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13049810 - 08/14/10 09:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

Gulfripper said:
Dual willl be hard DO NOT mention shit about drugs. Maybe say I smoked marijuana once and it made me feel funny and not enjoy it. Its a super long process and a pain good luck.



What if they find out about drugs from one of the interviews they do with someone who knows me? Especially the shrooms... fuck... so many of my friends know that I was into that.




Your friends and references should be smarter than that. If they ask if you used drugs, are your refrences really gonne be like  Oh fuck yea he does drugs. But if they do find out about it and it isnt a one or two time thing with pot im pretty sure everything else dq's you. SO if they find out about mushies coke anything it will dq you.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Security clearance question [Re: Gulfripper]
    #13050217 - 08/14/10 11:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Gulfripper said:
Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

Gulfripper said:
Dual willl be hard DO NOT mention shit about drugs. Maybe say I smoked marijuana once and it made me feel funny and not enjoy it. Its a super long process and a pain good luck.



What if they find out about drugs from one of the interviews they do with someone who knows me? Especially the shrooms... fuck... so many of my friends know that I was into that.




Your friends and references should be smarter than that. If they ask if you used drugs, are your refrences really gonne be like  Oh fuck yea he does drugs.





Right, and people shouldn't talk to cops either, but neither of these obvious truths matters as they are universally ignored.

I sure as hell wouldn't tell an investigator anything, but I doubt you'd get even one out of ten people that could shut their mouth.  It sure is rare that a person questioned by the cops doesn't tallk their ear off- even when they're guilty as hell and are talking their way right into jail.  How common do you think it is that someone who would have no consequences to telling an investigator about their friend's life can shut up when they can't even do so when its their ass going to prison?

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