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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia'
    #13016052 - 08/07/10 07:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10154775

Creativity is akin to insanity, say scientists who have been studying how the mind works.

Brain scans reveal striking similarities in the thought pathways of highly creative people and those with schizophrenia.

Both groups lack important receptors used to filter and direct thought.

It could be this uninhibited processing that allows creative people to "think outside the box", say experts from Sweden's Karolinska Institute.

In some people, it leads to mental illness.

But rather than a clear division, experts suspect a continuum, with some people having psychotic traits but few negative symptoms.
Art and suffering

Some of the world's leading artists, writers and theorists have also had mental illnesses - the Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh and American mathematician John Nash (portrayed by Russell Crowe in the film A Beautiful Mind) to name just two.

Creativity is known to be associated with an increased risk of depression, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Thalamus The thalamus channels thoughts

Similarly, people who have mental illness in their family have a higher chance of being creative.

Associate Professor Fredrik Ullen believes his findings could help explain why.

He looked at the brain's dopamine (D2) receptor genes which experts believe govern divergent thought.

He found highly creative people who did well on tests of divergent thought had a lower than expected density of D2 receptors in the thalamus - as do people with schizophrenia.

The thalamus serves as a relay centre, filtering information before it reaches areas of the cortex, which is responsible, amongst other things, for cognition and reasoning.

"Fewer D2 receptors in the thalamus probably means a lower degree of signal filtering, and thus a higher flow of information from the thalamus," said Professor Ullen.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

    Creative people, like those with psychotic illnesses, tend to see the world differently to most. It's like looking at a shattered mirror”

End Quote Mark Millard UK psychologist

He believes it is this barrage of uncensored information that ignites the creative spark.

This would explain how highly creative people manage to see unusual connections in problem-solving situations that other people miss.

Schizophrenics share this same ability to make novel associations. But in schizophrenia, it results in bizarre and disturbing thoughts.

UK psychologist and member of the British Psychological Society Mark Millard said the overlap with mental illness might explain the motivation and determination creative people share.

"Creativity is uncomfortable. It is their dissatisfaction with the present that drives them on to make changes.

"Creative people, like those with psychotic illnesses, tend to see the world differently to most. It's like looking at a shattered mirror. They see the world in a fractured way.

"There is no sense of conventional limitations and you can see this in their work. Take Salvador Dali, for example. He certainly saw the world differently and behaved in a way that some people perceived as very odd."

He said businesses have already recognised and capitalised on this knowledge.

Some companies have "skunk works" - secure, secret laboratories for their highly creative staff where they can freely experiment without disrupting the daily business.

Chartered psychologist Gary Fitzgibbon says an ability to "suspend disbelief" is one way of looking at creativity.

"When you suspend disbelief you are prepared to believe anything and this opens up the scope for seeing more possibilities.

"Creativity is certainly about not being constrained by rules or accepting the restrictions that society places on us. Of course the more people break the rules, the more likely they are to be perceived as 'mentally ill'."

He works as an executive coach helping people to be more creative in their problem solving behaviour and thinking styles.

"The result is typically a significant rise in their well being, so as opposed to creativity being associated with mental illness it becomes associated with good mental health."


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OfflineFisherman
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: blewmeanie]
    #13016068 - 08/07/10 07:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

People have got to stop analyzing everything ._.

Not that it would help in this damned world


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OfflineZanwolf
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: Fisherman]
    #13016997 - 08/07/10 12:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think you really need a scientific explanation to see this. It's obvious when observing and interacting in conversation etc with highly creative people. They act so differently compared to the 'norm' of people.

Nice find and good post though, I reckon it makes perfect sense.


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This is a force of nature, just like lightning, the righteous face it every day and pass it by, but those with evil in their hearts fear it, that is why there is no need to fear it. Just leave them to face death and they will perish.


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: blewmeanie]
    #13016999 - 08/07/10 12:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

We have so much to learn :pipesmoke:


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: blewmeanie]
    #13017299 - 08/07/10 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I believe creative patterns of thought mimic patterns of schizophrenia because they are of one and the same essence. Except that healthy creative behavior has an outlet and is able to be expressed which relieves creative pressure. A schizophrenic has difficulty releasing that pressure, so it builds up inside and the person is overwhelmed with creativity to the point that it drives them mad.


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OfflineSpace Elf
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: blewmeanie]
    #13017912 - 08/07/10 04:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Vincent Van Gogh supposedly had schizophrenia. I wonder if his paintings were his attempt at being creative or just a recreation of his perception.



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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #13018485 - 08/07/10 06:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
I believe creative patterns of thought mimic patterns of schizophrenia because they are of one and the same essence. Except that healthy creative behavior has an outlet and is able to be expressed which relieves creative pressure. A schizophrenic has difficulty releasing that pressure, so it builds up inside and the person is overwhelmed with creativity to the point that it drives them mad.



This.


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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: circastes]
    #13019539 - 08/07/10 10:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Actually, bi-polar disorder has been associated with more creativity in people than schizophrenia, especially if they suffer from the positive effects, which basically remove them from doing much of anything. For instance, catatonic schizophrenics don't do anything all day except pose (for hours) or flail about in a disordered fashion. And Paranoid schizophrenics are generally too immersed in their fantasies to concern themselves with creativity.

Other than that, you're right about mentioning the negative effects, which comprise a "flat affect," "avolition," "ahedonia," and some psychomotor dysfunction. I think John Nash and a few others might be the exception to when it concerns the "positive" symptoms of schizophrenia. However, the movie "A Beautiful Mind" embellishes the truth a bit. The movie portrays Nash having visual hallucinations, when in reality most all of his hallucinations were aural.

I definitely think there's a human need to see creativity and madness as coexistent, but MANY more sane and straightforward people have been highly creative and genius without any semblance of insanity. And this is just the truth of the matter. We must be careful not to get involved with confirmation bias when it comes to this.


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Edited by AnxietyDrive (08/07/10 10:44 PM)


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InvisibleQballs
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13019578 - 08/07/10 10:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think creating an entire reality that you live in is pretty damn creative.


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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: Qballs]
    #13019628 - 08/07/10 11:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Qballs said:
I think creating an entire reality that you live in is pretty damn creative.




:shrug: but you don't have to be schizophrenic to do that. Everyone creates their own realities all the time. The defining characteristic of madness is the degree to which you believe your fantasies, and the degree to which you can function in society.

For instance, Christians can be accused of creating their own fantasy worlds, but at least they can make it in society. :lol:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13019759 - 08/07/10 11:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well schizophrenia isn't a psychological problem, it's neurological. Specifically there is too much dopamine in some areas and not enough in others. Dopamine determines reward sensations, hence the ahedonia in those areas not getting enough. I don't remember which areas are given too much, but I imagine it generates extraneous thought. Schizophrenics don't get a choice.


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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: circastes]
    #13019794 - 08/07/10 11:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Well schizophrenia isn't a psychological problem, it's neurological. Specifically there is too much dopamine in some areas and not enough in others. Dopamine determines reward sensations, hence the ahedonia in those areas not getting enough. I don't remember which areas are given too much, but I imagine it generates extraneous thought. Schizophrenics don't get a choice.




The dopamine idea is just a hypotheses. It's strong, but it's not a verified fact. However, some forms of schizophrenia are neurological, and the way we know this is through neuroimagining. We can actually see the Broca's area, and other areas of the temporal lobe light up whenever a person experiences an aural hullacination. This is a verified fact, although there is caveat; and the caveat is that a quarter of everyone who is diagnosed with schizophrenia recovers. So tell me, how does someone with an obvious neurological condition "get over" it?

This question leads to many interesting conclusions, I promise. And some of them might bring in a psychological explanation rather than a biological.

Edit: the dopamine theory of schizophrenia actually came about while testing drugs on Alzheimer's patients. Doctors noticed the effects regarding dopamine and so they tried it on people with schizophrenia. It worked, but when the newer antipsychotic drugs came out, it threw the dopamine hypothesis into question, because the newer drugs focus on other neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Surely you're up to speed on this?


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Edited by AnxietyDrive (08/07/10 11:35 PM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13020007 - 08/08/10 12:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nope! I thought I was up to date.

I believe the mind can overcome anything with enough effort, personally. That includes schizophrenia. But most people don't have the willpower. I pointed out what I did in my post because when there's no reward for anything, there's no point in doing anything, unless you want to be some puppet imitating a human.

I can believe people get over it... I've gotten over it... mostly


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #13020245 - 08/08/10 01:56 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think, perhaps, the problem here is that you are trying to say that psychology and biology are two separate things.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia' [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #13020339 - 08/08/10 02:47 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, yeah, right. Well, obviously they're talking about the same process from a different perspective. The mind influences biology and biology influences the mind, but without human concepts demarcating everything, they're the same process. However, what I'm saying about schizophrenia is that it's pretty much a physical, organic change in the brain, that starts making the brain function differently, as if you 'diverted some pipes into other pipes', at which point changing the outcome of the illness using just the mind, or willpower, is exceedingly difficult. I was lucky to have a very mild experience of schizophrenia, one that, through reasoning and re-evaluation, the paranoid ideas and distorted thinking could be abolished. However, the really far gone schizophrenics hear voices which inform them about conspiracies against them etc. not to mention the the brain chemistry imbalance, through whatever neurotransmitter it is now, means there is no reward for doing anything.

Hey, the whole reason I mentioned this was as a kind of side-note, haha. I mean, it was only barely relevant to the post it was referring to. I just wanted to explain why a schizophrenic doesn't take part in society, while Christians do.

It's a bit vague what we're talking about actually, or is that just me?


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