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jokefox
Top of the chain



Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,231
Loc: never where I should be
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CAN SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION ONE POST UP
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Numinosum
President of Turd Town



Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
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I have no problem with any method that keeps the substrate at the correct temperature, for the correct time.
My problem with the bucket, is that I have a hard time believing that the temp/time specs are achieved.
-------------------- ...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
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jokefox
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Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,231
Loc: never where I should be
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13026822 - 08/09/10 02:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Numinosum
President of Turd Town



Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13026823 - 08/09/10 02:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say leave the air, and seal hot. When it cools, a vacuum will be created.
Remember though, that it can not be stored this way indefinitely. Pasteurization increases shelf life, but it will ferment.
-------------------- ...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
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jokefox
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Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,231
Loc: never where I should be
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13026829 - 08/09/10 02:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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ahhhh
put what if i put it in the freezer after it cools
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Numinosum
President of Turd Town



Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: jokefox]
#13026830 - 08/09/10 02:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very nice. Freezer should keep it.
-------------------- ...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
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Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo



Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern...
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13026840 - 08/09/10 02:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry about that Jokefox...kinda threadjacked you there in a way..my bad bro.
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7 days without waves makes one weak!
Edited by Mad_Hatter2004 (08/09/10 02:16 PM)
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jokefox
Top of the chain



Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,231
Loc: never where I should be
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13026857 - 08/09/10 02:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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so in theory
you can store a shittt load of ready to go sub in the freezer just let de-thaw for 24 hours then use?
all good about the thread jack this thread is a very useful information bank right now
theres alot to do about pasteurization and some people gave up there secrets if you read the whole thread, i learnt alot actually lol
and RR even made a cameo
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Numinosum
President of Turd Town



Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: jokefox]
#13026871 - 08/09/10 02:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds good to me.
-------------------- ...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
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rave420
open minded




Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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if you dump hot water on there that is more than 160F you kill all beneficial organisms. If you only dumped 160F water on there it won't stay at 160F for long enough.
It's all about maintaining the control on the temperature.
You can take your time to neatly cut a hole into the wall, or you can just punch it as hard as you can to crack the wall open. The end result is going to be a hole either way. It's about what matters to you, your standard of doing things, and your need for accuracy and precision.
I feel if i just dumped boiling water on a coir block i'd be not maintaining temperature, and i would leave too much up to chance. Furthermore, i'd have to mess around with the pasteurized substrate to get to perfect field capacity.
If i mix it to field capacity, and THEN pasteurize it in an oven bag in hot water i feel like i am much more in control of things, giving me consistent results every time i repeat the procedure. Also, i don't have to handle the pasteurized substrate ever again after it's done, reducing the risk of introducing contaminants.
I would just feel like i did a sloppy job. If that's all i want then i dump some hot water into a bucket. But that's not the way i work. Period!
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we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.
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prismism



Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,570
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: rave420]
#13027351 - 08/09/10 03:34 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
rave420 said: if you dump hot water on there that is more than 160F you kill all beneficial organisms. If you only dumped 160F water on there it won't stay at 160F for long enough.
It's all about maintaining the control on the temperature.
You can take your time to neatly cut a hole into the wall, or you can just punch it as hard as you can to crack the wall open. The end result is going to be a hole either way. It's about what matters to you, your standard of doing things, and your need for accuracy and precision.
I feel if i just dumped boiling water on a coir block i'd be not maintaining temperature, and i would leave too much up to chance. Furthermore, i'd have to mess around with the pasteurized substrate to get to perfect field capacity.
If i mix it to field capacity, and THEN pasteurize it in an oven bag in hot water i feel like i am much more in control of things, giving me consistent results every time i repeat the procedure. Also, i don't have to handle the pasteurized substrate ever again after it's done, reducing the risk of introducing contaminants.
I would just feel like i did a sloppy job. If that's all i want then i dump some hot water into a bucket. But that's not the way i work. Period!
I applaud this post. Well said, I completely agree one hundred percent.
-------------------- ephemeral anomalous
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: rave420]
#13027419 - 08/09/10 03:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
rave420 said: if you dump hot water on there that is more than 160F you kill all beneficial organisms. If you only dumped 160F water on there it won't stay at 160F for long enough.
Well pasteurizing and sterilizing work on heat over time. Thats why you dont just pc for a second at 15 psi. You dont pasteurize at 160 for a minute.
Over 160 wont kill them all instantly. It takes time for heat to kill things. As long as it drops to 160 in a reasonable amount of time your fine. A minute or two is not the end of the world.
I agree that it is lazy, but it works. Cars are pretty lazy and are fucking up the world. When was the last time you were in something with and engine?
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rave420
open minded




Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Base Icks]
#13027638 - 08/09/10 04:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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it might work and you might have results with it, but it is NOT THE PROPER WAY TO DO IT. Don't call it pasteurization then. When teaching other people, you want to make sure they understand this, because it leads to perpetuating misleading information.
Can you show me that if you dump hot water in a bucket that the temperature of the substrate will stay at 140 - 160F for 60 minutes? Will it? It depends on how big the bucket is, how much water you use, how much substrate, what material etc. by doing this you introduce A MYRIAD OF UNKNOWNS for the new and unexperienced grower that may or may not lead to failure.
By establishing a routine (thank you RR) that is precise you eliminate all of the unknown factors, and you have something that IS KNOWN TO WORK! No guessing, no estimating, no doubt. Just knowing what you're doing is the way it's done for more than a century now, and it worked every time unless YOU start changing the procedure.
If you can live with unknowns and like to take a shot at something without definite reassurance then be my guest. I know if i grow mold and other things I CAN'T BE MY PROCEDURE, or i must have made an error along the way somewhere. Either way, i can evaluate what i did and find the error, and improve from there. By mixing arbitrary amounts of water and substrate and then handling it after, i can't do that. I have to assume the error happened at any step.
There are people out there that bring you the true and tested, that teach methods known to work 99% of the time if followed step by step. Yet, there are people who think they can get the same results cutting corners, substituting etc. and then are surprised why it doesn't work out for them. I for one, am glad there are people who share their knowledge, for i am able to follow instructions. If i cut corners, and mess up, i know i have to start working on myself, not the procedure.
--------------------
we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.
Help me with my collection (trades only)
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: rave420]
#13027700 - 08/09/10 04:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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rave420
open minded




Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 694
Loc: Vancouver Island
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: rave420]
#13027720 - 08/09/10 04:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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good point, moving on. Everybody does what they think is right anyhow.
--------------------
we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and draw our strength from the same giant fireball.
Help me with my collection (trades only)
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Giallo
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 72
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13027800 - 08/09/10 04:51 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
jokefox said: CAN SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION ONE POST UP
Yeah I can, but you just flipped me sh*t for no reason in the strain threadso why bother. Very flawed tech that needs to be completely reworked, time and ingredients need to be modified.
Edited by Giallo (08/09/10 06:59 PM)
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: rave420]
#13027818 - 08/09/10 04:55 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I understand the whole "lets not confuse the noobs" thing. I was totally green 5 months ago.
Thing is though that the info is here there and everywhere, and they are probably going to get confused anyways. This site isn't the easiest thing to navigate, glossary are hard to find. Yadda Yadda Yadda.
Thank god were all here to help and answer questions.
Better that than
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Numinosum
President of Turd Town



Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Giallo]
#13027905 - 08/09/10 05:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Giallo said:
Quote:
Numinosum said: I have no problem with any method that keeps the substrate at the correct temperature, for the correct time.
My problem with the bucket, is that I have a hard time believing that the temp/time specs are achieved.
Yeah I can, but you just flipped me sh*t for no reason in the strain threadso why bother. Very flawed tech that needs to be completely reworked, time and ingredients need to be modified.
???? I never even posted in that thread. Think you've got me mixed up with someone else.
-------------------- ...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
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Giallo
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 72
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Numinosum]
#13028379 - 08/09/10 06:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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That was at the TS, not you. hit the wrong quote button.
Edited by Giallo (08/09/10 06:58 PM)
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FractalXplora
Grainiack




Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: pasteurization problems [Re: Giallo]
#13029934 - 08/10/10 12:32 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hear what y'all saying, cant see sub temp being at 165F for like 5 /10 mins being a problem, as of course it isn't in all reality.
I got the original info from this great thread, tis a fitting read.
Large Dose COir tek
just to confuse this even more.
Many people do it the bucket way, with additives too........and poo......and a thermometer!!!!! Not that random or sloppy really.
Doing small amounts yes would be a problem keeping temps in the range but the size of a standard monotub it easy holds the temps as Large_dose explains in his thread
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