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Offlineate
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How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering)
    #13009317 - 08/05/10 09:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hi, is it possible to put the wild bird seeds in the soak at around 5 PM, and then wake up in the morning and simmer them at around 10-12AM, in order to get them to loosen up and absorb more moisture, and then pressure cook directly after for 90 minutes.

Would this be sufficient moisture?

I know many things are bendable, but it is about the balance and cleanness of the whole process that will ensure results, but is this possible?

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OfflineJackClements
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: ate]
    #13009735 - 08/05/10 10:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

soak for 12 to 24 hrs.... simmer as stated in the tek....put on a paper towel to steam dry....load jars...PC...noc'em up.....

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OfflineIssius
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: ate]
    #13009743 - 08/05/10 10:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The problem isn't moisture.  You'll achieve correct moisture by properly simmering and straining the WBS, the initial soak is to start germinating any spores that are already present so that you can kill them when you PC it. 

That said, 12 hours is often sufficient.  24 would be better, but you should be fine starting in the morning.

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Invisiblewygram
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: Issius]
    #13009843 - 08/05/10 10:34 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The initial soak is more about getting the grains to hydrate a bit, so they don't burst when simmering, than germinating endospores. If that were the case anything over 12 hours and especially 24 would be detrimental because the spores germinate and reproduce so fast that you would end up with more spores than you started with.

That said, I find a 4 hour soak in HOT water is more than enough to get the grains "wet" so they hydrate well in the simmer. Hot water is the key, it kills the viability of the grains preventing them from sprouting and works its hydrating magic faster than cold water.


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InvisibleDeadHearts

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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: wygram]
    #13009998 - 08/05/10 11:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wygram said:


That said, I find a 4 hour soak in HOT water is more than enough to get the grains "wet" so they hydrate well in the simmer. Hot water is the key, it kills the viability of the grains preventing them from sprouting and works its hydrating magic faster than cold water.




I mean its easier to just let them soak overnight in room temp water and take it
from there in the morning. The jars are going in the PC anyways. Either or tho.

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Offlinecrp32008
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #13010737 - 08/06/10 03:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I've been using fooman's WBS tek for years and love it.  I just wash my seed until it comes out as clear as I think it can get (boiling a pot of water at the same time).  After that I just dump the water over the seed in a 5 gallon bucket and thirty min later I'm done...the only thing I do after that is either let it dry naturally or use a hair dryer to get it dry...the reason for the hot soak is to get the moisture absorbed...which means you can cut out your 4-24 hour soak.  All in all it take me about 45 min to an hour to rinse, hydrate, and dry 6 half gallon jars worth of seed.


--------------------
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Invisibleandymc
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: wygram]
    #13010838 - 08/06/10 05:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wygram said:
The initial soak is more about getting the grains to hydrate a bit, so they don't burst when simmering, than germinating endospores. If that were the case anything over 12 hours and especially 24 would be detrimental because the spores germinate and reproduce so fast that you would end up with more spores than you started with.




Wow.  So what you're saying is that bacteria will still generate significant numbers of endospores when conditions are good and food and water are plentiful?  Why would they do that?  I thought endospores were something that bacteria do to 'hibernate' when conditions go bad.

RR says to soak rye for "at least" (here) 24 hours.  I usually go closer to 48.

This is totally new information to me, but you're a TC so you must know what you're talking about.  Please explain about the endospores.


--------------------
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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: andymc]
    #13010865 - 08/06/10 05:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

andymc said:
Quote:

wygram said:
The initial soak is more about getting the grains to hydrate a bit, so they don't burst when simmering, than germinating endospores. If that were the case anything over 12 hours and especially 24 would be detrimental because the spores germinate and reproduce so fast that you would end up with more spores than you started with.




Wow.  So what you're saying is that bacteria will still generate significant numbers of endospores when conditions are good and food and water are plentiful?  Why would they do that?  I thought endospores were something that bacteria do to 'hibernate' when conditions go bad.

RR says to soak rye for "at least" (here) 24 hours.  I usually go closer to 48.

This is totally new information to me, but you're a TC so you must know what you're talking about.  Please explain about the endospores.





Actually RR says to presoak for 4-24 hours...not AT LEAST 24 HOURS.

He has clearly updated though.

In that quote you linked (which may or may not be an actual quote from RR) it says at least 24 hours.On the Let's Grow Mushrooms site in the grain prep vid it says 6-24 hours,and I have more recently seen him suggesting a 4-24 hour soak.

One thing That leads me to believe that that quote isn't actually a quote of RR's is that RR doesn't use terms like Myc,AFOAF,etc.


Pre soak 4-24 hours.

I soaked my rye berries for 18-20 hours the first time and ended up with a bunch of mushy bursted grains before I even got to the 10 minute boil.

This last time I presoaked in hot water for about 8 hours,perfect,no burst grains.I boiled for 10 minutes,then strained to steam dry then dumped grains onto some news paper and evenly spread out for a total and even steam dry.By that point the grains popped like a zit,but weren't mushy and there were still no burst grains.


Try a few different presoak times and see what works best for you.


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: andymc]
    #13010867 - 08/06/10 05:29 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

if your in a hurry foomans no soak tek is great indeed, expect a few more burst kernels than if you did the 24 soak.

plan ahead.

soak. :smile:


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Offlinenexus1946
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: ate]
    #13011744 - 08/06/10 10:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Soak for 24 hours for best results. Also pressure cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi not 90 minutes.

I rinse the WBS with cold water until the water is clear then soak for no less than 24 hours.

I then rinse again with warm water to clear out all the fermented crap and germinated nasties. Also, I use warm water to bring up the temps of the WBS to avoid bursting when the boiled water comes.

Then I pour boiled water into the bucket of WBS and let sit for roughly 5 minutes.

Then I dump the WBS into a large strainer and let air dry while stirring occasionally. usually takes 30-60 mins for the excess water to evaporate and the WBS 'dry off'.

The sole purpose of me using boiled water is for evaporation as hot water evaporates quicker and easier than cold.


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OfflineIssius
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: nexus1946]
    #13011826 - 08/06/10 11:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Soak for 24 hours for best results. Also pressure cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi not 90 minutes.




Why pressure cook for less time?  From what I understand, WBS is actually better off PCed for at LEAST 90 minutes, rather than the conventional 60 minutes.

However, I could be getting things mixed up.  I use quart jars, so maybe its 90 minutes for those, regardless of grain choice.

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Offlinenexus1946
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: Issius]
    #13011892 - 08/06/10 11:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Issius said:
Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Soak for 24 hours for best results. Also pressure cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi not 90 minutes.




Why pressure cook for less time?  From what I understand, WBS is actually better off PCed for at LEAST 90 minutes, rather than the conventional 60 minutes.

However, I could be getting things mixed up.  I use quart jars, so maybe its 90 minutes for those, regardless of grain choice.




Sterilize for 60 minutes, pasteurize for 90 minutes for any size jar.


--------------------
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The Story Of Russell The Texas (Cube) Bear



The human race's prospects of survival were considerably better when we were defenceless against tigers than they are today when we have become defenceless against ourselves.
-Arnold J. Toynbee

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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: nexus1946]
    #13016557 - 08/07/10 10:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Quote:

Issius said:
Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Soak for 24 hours for best results. Also pressure cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi not 90 minutes.




Why pressure cook for less time?  From what I understand, WBS is actually better off PCed for at LEAST 90 minutes, rather than the conventional 60 minutes.

However, I could be getting things mixed up.  I use quart jars, so maybe its 90 minutes for those, regardless of grain choice.




Sterilize for 60 minutes, pasteurize for 90 minutes for any size jar.





Sterilize for 90 minutes at 15 PSI/250° F.

Pastuerization should be between 140° and 160° (try not to let the center of the substrate get above 170° F) for 1-2 hours.


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13017141 - 08/07/10 01:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sterilize for 90 minutes at 15 PSI/250° F.




i used to do 90 dude, but av found 60 is ample for no contam ever.

Quart jars with a 24 hour hot soak mind you.


Save ya gas.:thumbup:


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: FractalXplora]
    #13017163 - 08/07/10 01:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FractalXplora said:


i used to do 90 dude, but av found 60 is ample for no contam ever.






thats way too general of a statement. in my opinion.


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Offlinerave420
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: k00laid]
    #13017284 - 08/07/10 01:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

he never had contaminants using this method.
That's all he's saying.
I PC my WBS for 60 instead of 90 and i never had problems with jars contaminating unless i stick something dirty in there.

Edited by rave420 (08/07/10 01:55 PM)

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Offlinenexus1946
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13018951 - 08/07/10 08:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Hatter2004 said:
Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Quote:

Issius said:
Quote:

nexus1946 said:
Soak for 24 hours for best results. Also pressure cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi not 90 minutes.




Why pressure cook for less time?  From what I understand, WBS is actually better off PCed for at LEAST 90 minutes, rather than the conventional 60 minutes.

However, I could be getting things mixed up.  I use quart jars, so maybe its 90 minutes for those, regardless of grain choice.




Sterilize for 60 minutes, pasteurize for 90 minutes for any size jar.





Sterilize for 90 minutes at 15 PSI/250° F.

Pastuerization should be between 140° and 160° (try not to let the center of the substrate get above 170° F) for 1-2 hours.




I thought everyone pressure cooked/sterilized for 60 minutes and pasteurize for 90 minutes. Always works for me. From what I've read and the vids I've watched....it works for everyone else as well. :shrug:

But hey, to each their own. :smirk:


--------------------
Gypsum/Drywall Tek
The Story Of Russell The Texas (Cube) Bear



The human race's prospects of survival were considerably better when we were defenceless against tigers than they are today when we have become defenceless against ourselves.
-Arnold J. Toynbee

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OfflineIssius
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: nexus1946]
    #13019604 - 08/07/10 10:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I mostly forget to time my PC cycles so they end up being around 90 minutes at least, sometimes more than 2 hours just so I'm sure.  I tend to smoke a lot while I PC so thats mostly the reason...

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Offlineate
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: Issius]
    #13030313 - 08/10/10 03:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:laugh: Thanks.

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Offlinekechlesurf
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Re: How many hours of WBS soaking? Way to quicken? (simmering) [Re: ate]
    #13030674 - 08/10/10 07:46 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I have never been able to simmer WBS like i could rye, so I believe it was Damion who i talked to about WBS, and he told me to just soak for 20 hours or so (cant remember the exact time, strain, and pressure cook and i have had great results.  I got rid of the simmer process, but once i have some more money, i will order more Rye berries.  I just like Rye berries more than WBS

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