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InvisiblePoid
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: spirodj]
    #13358321 - 10/19/10 04:51 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spirodj said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I care about the US.





  Sorry but I think  you missed there one very important word.
  "I care ONLY about the US-A."


I didn't miss jack shit, stop putting words in my mouth. :finger:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineLC89
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Darwin23]
    #13383269 - 10/25/10 12:25 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Darwin23 said:
China is a heartless government. The whole reason it's the fastest growing economy in the world. Complete lack of compassion.




Calling and getting a ambulance in China are free due the tax dollars coming from billion/millionaires of China. Compare to the U.S where people paid more than $800 per ride during the live or dead situation, people need to paid extra the mileage and service received. Who is more heartless for asking money during the time care is needed the most. If it makes you feel better of all the ongoing genocides America orchestrating across the globe, I would let you have it.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13383313 - 10/25/10 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hi!  Welcome to the forum, I've not seen you post here before.  Welcome :smile2:

I find some of the points you've made troublesome, however, and I would appreciate your response:


Quote:

LC89 said:
Quote:

Darwin23 said:
China is a heartless government. The whole reason it's the fastest growing economy in the world. Complete lack of compassion.




Calling and getting a ambulance in China are free due the tax dollars coming from billion/millionaires of China. Compare to the U.S where people paid more than $800 per ride during the live or dead situation,




Please explain why you compare the chinese ambulance service to the US ambulance service. 

Are you alleging the level of service provided by each is comparable so that the cost to the consumer is directly comparable?  As you've directly contrasted the asserted costs of this service in both countries, I'm presuming you allege such a direct comparison is meritous, so I would be interested to hear why you think the service is comparable or how you reconcile the disparity and its effect on your comparison.

Quote:

Compare to the U.S where people paid more than $800 per ride during the live or dead situation




Please provide support for your claim that people are paid 800$ per ride in an ambulance.  I don't recall this being even remotely congruent with the figures I'm aware of.  The only time this may be true in the US is in circumstances where I very much doubt China would provide such service and imagine it would be difficult if not impossible to obtain at all in an appropriate timeframe.


Quote:

Who is more heartless for asking money during the time care is needed the most.




Please back up your assertion that the United States asks for money during the time when patients need care.  In fact, I don't believe the United States asks for money for medical services at all (well, not unless Obama's wet dream becomes reality), baring unique situations more akin to private transactions- military bases, veteren's admin.

Further, even if your argument is construed to refer to the dissimilar private service in the US, I would challenge you to provide evidence money is needed and asked for during the time care is needed most.  The only time such would be remotely true is when care actually isn't needed most, and the patient would be using the ambulance as a taxi rather than a medical service.

Quote:

If it makes you feel better of all the ongoing genocides America orchestrating across the globe, I would let you have it.




What genocide(s) is America orchestrating across the globe?  I'm not aware of any.

Further, I imagine you're not so bold as to be alleging America is condemnable relative to China on the human right's front or even when examining supposed genocides.

China was founded on genocide, lol.

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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: johnm214]
    #13383326 - 10/25/10 12:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Further, I imagine you're not so bold as to be alleging America is condemnable relative to China on the human right's front or even when examining supposed genocides.



:thumbup: China's widespread, systematic human rights abuses eclipse the US by a long shot.
Quote:

China was founded on genocide, lol.



So was America.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #13383369 - 10/25/10 01:08 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Quote:


Further, I imagine you're not so bold as to be alleging America is condemnable relative to China on the human right's front or even when examining supposed genocides.



:thumbup: China's widespread, systematic human rights abuses eclipse the US by a long shot.




Agreed.  And at least in the US you have a real shot at holding the government to what the law allows- in China you can't even depend on the government to follow its own rules.

Quote:

Quote:

China was founded on genocide, lol.



So was America.




Hm, I don't know.

I assume your referring to the Indians here, yes?  Thats the only reason I didn't challenge the poster to find any genocide the US did.  I can't think of any other example.


But is it fair to say the US was founded on genocide?  The states were largely without signifigant Indian problems at the time the country was formed, and while I may be wrong, I thought the country itself wasn't actively involved in clearing out the Indians and pushing westward until a bit later.  My understanding was that in the first years it was mostly private interests that undertook these measures, but I admit not knowing a whole lot about the history here, and its somewhat moot as the US is far from blameless and engaged in genocidal acts by most any definition.


What I meant when referring to China being actually formed on genocide is that the genocide itself was actually an end unto itself upon the forming of the PRC.  Rather than simply seeking land or wealth and encountering resistance and whatnot, the Chinese Communists actually regarded the liquidation of the various classes as a central goal of the government.

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OfflineLC89
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: johnm214]
    #13383445 - 10/25/10 01:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Where I got the idea of paying for ambulance...? I got hit by a car during senior year of high school. The firefighter ask me do I wanna go to hospital to check it out. I ask him how much is it that where I got the prices from. I believe it a legit source and first hand experience.

Why it couldn't be comparable?? You have to pay for the ride to hospital vs no payment need for a ride to hospital. I hope it not that hard to compare right? During the Cultural Revolution government provide to-your-door medical care for every civilians. America is a nation that rich people asking for tax breaking but keep asking for government financial assistant.

American genocide: Those responsible for 9/11 are from Afghanistan ( a common sense), we went all the way to Iraq to drop bombs all over them for allegedly possession of Weapons of Mass destruction and organize a coalition consist at least more than 20 nations. Whoever come up with this idea is obvious posse.

I hope this map will enlighten you.
Map

China found on genocide??? Well, my grandparent immigrated to China during the Cultural Revolution from Southeast Asia. As a poor minority, my grandmother received an opportunity for studying Russian in the USSR for 4 years. My grandfather was trained as a auto technician to fix German vehicles. Child care also provided during the working hours for free. My uncle from a poor farm who farm with a actual shovel became a register lawyer. I don't get where is the genocide.


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13383704 - 10/25/10 03:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I have challenged several specific claims you've made.  You've responded to a few of them but provided no evidence for any except a few antecdotes about getting hit by a car and your relatives experience.

Please back up those claims you've made.


Quote:

LC89 said:
Where I got the idea of paying for ambulance...? I got hit by a car during senior year of high school. The firefighter ask me do I wanna go to hospital to check it out. I ask him how much is it that where I got the prices from. I believe it a legit source and first hand experience.

Why it couldn't be comparable?? You have to pay for the ride to hospital vs no payment need for a ride to hospital. I hope it not that hard to compare right?




This is a bare assertion fallacy.  I asked for the evidence and your thoughts regarding the comparison and you've simply repeated the assertion, which does not establish its veracity.

I doubt the chinese government will pay for an ambulance to come pick you up and I doubt you have a right to such transport indpendant of your ability to pay- which you do have in the US.

Further, I doubt the chinese government provides ambulance services at all similar to the US model- when no direct reimbursment is provided for services from the recipient, as alleged here, there is little motivation to provide the level of service provided in, i.e., the US.  I have no burden to disprove your claims or the merits of your comparison, but a cursory search reveals my intuition is correct.  Stories of pitiful ambulance service abound and it appears the first dedicated air ambulance service was just established a few years ago.  Do we really have to wonder why the US has had many such services for a very long time now and China is just getting around to it (through capitalist means which would have been illegal in the past).

RE: your experience, I doubt you were denied transport to the hospital on the basis of your economic situation if your injury was at all serious- it would be illegal to do so in the US (again, I doubt this is so in the PRC).  If you declined to pay, that's fine, but its certainly no fault of another, and if you didn't need transport anyways, better you didn't use up that resource.

Quote:



American genocide: Those responsible for 9/11 are from Afghanistan ( a common sense), we went all the way to Iraq to drop bombs all over them for allegedly possession of Weapons of Mass destruction and organize a coalition consist at least more than 20 nations. Whoever come up with this idea is obvious posse.




9/11 and Iraq were not directly related nor represented to be so explicitly by the US government.  They were invaded for failure to abide by the treaty they signed and the UN resolutions- these violations are not denied by anyone.

The fact that WMD's were alleged was the motivation to take such a severe step and possibly to provide legal justification/cover for the invasion (I'm unsure of whether the UN res. and treaties made the invasion legal) and the reason why the administration didn't want to wait for further inspections which had recently became available. 

None of this establishes genocide.

You've not even alleged purposeful killing, which is a requirement for any definition of genocide, and this is pretty much the end of your argument unless you do so and show evidence.

The US government has taken easily-confirmed measures to limit casualties, and no examples of purposeful killings in violation of law/customs of war exists that I'm aware of other than isolated incidents where the actors were violating US Gov't orders.  To claim this is anything close to genocide is ludicrous.


Quote:

China found on genocide??? Well, my grandparent immigrated to China during the Cultural Revolution from Southeast Asia. As a poor minority, my grandmother received an opportunity for studying Russian in the USSR for 4 years. My grandfather was trained as a auto technician to fix German vehicles. Child care also provided during the working hours for free. My uncle from a poor farm who farm with a actual shovel became a register lawyer. I don't get where is the genocide.




The genocide remark was made on the basis of the extermination of various classes of people delineated by social status, ethnicity, creed, and association to various groups.  These measures were not incidental but proudly claimed to be examples of progress (the famous remark about burying all the professors/intellectuals, for example).

After the various cooperative and industrialization measures were shown to be ill-conceived, very early on, even a fool could have seen that maintaining the course would lead to a great number of deaths and much suffering, and yet the course was stayed.  Even if you consider the programs simply foolhardy but not malicious, it became clear very early on that they didn't work.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13383820 - 10/25/10 04:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

> in China are free due the tax dollars coming from billion/millionaires of China.

Don't forget to thank those billion peasants that made the billion/millionaires of China possible.  Oh, and how is that ambulance service out in those rural areas that the peasants live?  If they call (do they even have phones), does the ambulance show up in just a few minutes for them as well?


--------------------
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InvisiblePoid
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Seuss]
    #13385203 - 10/25/10 01:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

God damn I fucking hate the Chinese government so much. :nonono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13385240 - 10/25/10 01:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LC89 said:
Quote:

Darwin23 said:
China is a heartless government. The whole reason it's the fastest growing economy in the world. Complete lack of compassion.










--------------------

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OfflineLC89
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Seuss]
    #13427183 - 11/03/10 02:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I never claim they show up in minute. And yes there is something called barefoot doctor who go to door to door for minority race which my grandparent are receive this form of care. Care are provide by barefoot doctor to minority race from the government, 1-child-policy are exempt from minority as well.

I never claim I had been REFUSE for emergency services. I said people like me will refuse to get the help we need because we are not afford for it. Any non-American know how f*ck up the health care system of America is since I live in a much better society. Why Americans are so obese?? Well it obvious Americans can't afford it so they stop pursuing.


--------------------
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Looking gourmet mushroom/cube

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OfflineScrappy
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13430058 - 11/03/10 05:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'd take USA's government over that of China's any day. China is the reason why there is no more Tibet.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Scrappy]
    #13435489 - 11/04/10 06:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

China's going to take over the world. You heard it from me first. :japsmile:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Poid]
    #13435508 - 11/04/10 06:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

No.  Dipshits have been saying that for several decades.  Other dipshits said Japan would.  But that was so yesterday.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13435524 - 11/04/10 07:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yesterday, China didn't have the money that it does today:

http://http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/china/
Quote:

China's economy is huge and expanding rapidly. In the last 30 years the rate of Chinese economic growth has been almost miraculous, averaging 8% growth in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per annum. The economy has grown more than 10 times during that period, with Chinese GDP reaching 3.42 trillion US dollars by 2007.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Poid]
    #13435607 - 11/04/10 07:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Funny how they still count it in US Dollars.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: LC89]
    #13436216 - 11/04/10 09:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LC89 said:
I never claim they show up in minute.




Straw man, nobody said you did.

The fact is that there is ample reason to doubt the comparison made between the two countrys' services are at all illuminating as to the comparitive costs.  Simply put, the services are extraordinarily different and to compare the free care recieved in China to the paid care recieved in the US is ridiculous.

Quote:

And yes there is something called barefoot doctor who go to door to door for minority race which my grandparent are receive this form of care.




Sure, China's been using racist and discriminatory policies since its founding.  I can fully believe they ration healthcare as a function of ethnicity.  The relevance of this as to the topic being discussed is not clear, however.  As the US provides on-demand transport for medical treatment and regardless of ability to pay for potentially serious or serious conditions, the roaming doctor doesn't seem a unique benefit to the Chinese system.
Quote:


Care are provide by barefoot doctor to minority race from the government, 1-child-policy are exempt from minority as well.




How nice of them to decide whether to kill your fetus or punish you on the basis of your ethnicity.  Nice folks those chinese communist party members.

Quote:

I never claim I had been REFUSE for emergency services. I said people like me will refuse to get the help we need because we are not afford for it.




Ok... would it make you feel better if the transport wasn't available at all?  I don't understand your complaint here.  You had care and transport available from a professionaly trained and well equiped ambulatory treatment center who would have transported you to a modern well-staffed medical center and your complaining that you voluntarily decided not to pay for all these facilities?  What is the problem?  Those folks don't work for free and the facilities aren't free either.  When it becomes available at no direct cost to the recipient, as in certain situations in PRC, I guarentee the staff and facilities will degrade.



Quote:

Any non-American know how f*ck up the health care system of America is since I live in a much better society.




Ok, a non-americann would be better able to judge the merits of America's healthcare system.  I don't get it, but I'll take your word for that. 

I don't really care to defend the society of either country- it is what it is.  The government however... Well, the US isn't selling the organs of its citezins' who hold particular opinions... so that sorta tips the scale towards the US being a tad bit better I'd say


Quote:

Why Americans are so obese?? Well it obvious Americans can't afford it so they stop pursuing.




Who cares?  I happen to think they're obese cause they can afford to be, but what does it matter?  Maybe if we had the foresight to institute a "great leap forward" we'd not have this pesky nourishment issue, you think?

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13460359 - 11/09/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Funny how they still count it in US Dollars.


How do you know the value wasn't simply converted from Chinese currency to American currency?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Poid]
    #13462839 - 11/10/10 07:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

over your head poid

see such things as reserve currency and bretton woods

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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: I'm really getting sick & fucking tired of the Chinese government... [Re: Noetical]
    #13466470 - 11/10/10 11:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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