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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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    #12960714 - 07/27/10 10:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12960776 - 07/27/10 10:36 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I like it.
But, my gut response is: what if we really are just a bunch of similar organisms experiencing the same world from different places, and due to this have widely varying experiences / knowledge / perceptions of the world around us?  And there really is nothing else ( :frown: ).  To add some excitement, maybe we are all projections of our own subconscious minds and we all happen to be crazy and unable to deal with that 'fact'.
I really have no clue and can't put belief in anything of this fashion anymore.  But I like your post and hope to god (lol) that it is true.
<3

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: fall]
    #12960816 - 07/27/10 10:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12960821 - 07/27/10 10:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12960862 - 07/27/10 10:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Except I don't think it's about not remembering the start of a dream, I just think dreams start in weird ways. It's not like dreams are often made up of normal story lines with standard beginning->climax->end. Plus dream recall is pretty tough anyway.

Not that it matters but I'm don't think the spoiler tag was necessary. They used that clip a lot in the trailers.


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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12960864 - 07/27/10 10:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:

We are experiencing the same world from different places, but in that respect, like ants and neurons, the information we are receiving is local. We transmit local information in the form of thoughts, ideas, and words, to the cloud, to the global organism, which assimilates these words, ideas, and thoughts, and helps us judge their merit, their threat, their value, by using the values imprinted on each of us. Even in the most isolated case, an individual somehow brought up on a desert island and surviving all their life, physically, their actions still reach others, although in a very insignificant way. Probably isn't the best way to rejoin the collective of the human social mind, but... there may be more steps beyond the human collective mind that we are a part of, where the isolated individual might still find full assimilation:




But is this global organism a real thing?  Is it really something accessible which we return to after death?  Or is it just another human creation, an unavoidable result of intelligent beings living together in the same space?  I'm thinking the opposite of your post, in that we are not the projection of this global consciousness, but it is the collective projection of us, which we individually have no access or benefits from after death... if you know what I mean. 
And the argument can be made that we don't remember the start of our lives due to our feeble baby brains still undergoing the development process for a long time after birth.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: fall]
    #12960921 - 07/27/10 11:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Offlinefeifen

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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12960981 - 07/27/10 11:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just a dream, I'll wake up when I'm dead.

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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12961004 - 07/27/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Right. I just threw that inception quote in because I thought it was cool, really had no relevance with any of this, haha.

But yeah, I do think its an unavoidable result of intelligent beings living together in the same space. Let me take you a step lower, to say, ants. The unavoidable result is a hive that has ventilation ducts, farming areas, tunnels with extreme complexity, breeding chambers, division of labor, and no single ant is responsible for this. Rather, the collective of the ants gains an intelligence of its own because the individuals of that collective are making individual decisions. Indeed, the property of an intelligent ant colony is emergent, but its actions are no less like an individual thinking mind than our own mind is, as a result of the sum of individual brain cells responding in cascade fashion to their local environment.

I'm not so sold on us having "access" to the benefits of this collective after we die. But I'm not entirely convinced that we will not. I doubt we will be self perceptive, and yet, every part of ourselves will live somewhere, because no action we create goes without an effect. Memories of a deceased mother, for instance, combined with memories of all others who knew that mother, almost in a way puts the lady back together. The ideas a dead person will help inspire until the end of time is in a sense, that dead person still creating effects on the world long after he dies.

Perception is the only thing I'm not sold on, but I'm just as willing to believe that this extreme emphasis we put on wanting to continue to perceive on the small mind level is unwarranted, considering that a bigger mind perceives more. The collective perceives more and still has all of the ideas successfully transmitted by the individual. Perhaps we lose our small mind and our limited perspective, but I really do think that perhaps such is not a bad thing.




I get the global consciousness thing in relation to ants/humans/bees/etc, it's just the interpretation I'm not so sure on.  In the case of the dead mother, that is true temporarily.  But what about the dead mothers 5000 years ago?  They were remembered for a time, and have long since been passed from memory.  And the effect they have/had on the world was second hand... while their influence could have been felt in varying ways by others who still lived, the creator of those thoughts and ideas and whatever else (the grandmother) gained nothing new from their utilization.  I guess the best way I can put this follows a classic scheme:
What came first, the conscious human or the collective human consciousness?  If it is the former, I'd have to err on the side of saying that the collective consciousness has no metaphysical existence in which any sort faith in any kind of continued existence should be placed... any lasting impression is solely in the conscious mind of still living humans.
Thats all I can think up right now... but I like this topic :laugh:.  Time to recharge with a beautiful spliff!  Also, if you have heard of Akron/Family, there is a song on their cd 'Eskimo' titled '........' which just came on as I was writing this, that I think you would appreciate :wink:

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: fall]
    #12961080 - 07/27/10 11:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12961205 - 07/27/10 12:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No no no, I gotcha.  I agree with the idea that there is in essence a theoretical collective consciousness effected by all those who participate in being conscious together.  But I don't think there is any evidence to say it goes much further than that, because it doesn't appear that this consciousness is actually a real 'thing'.  Without humans/conscious beings, it ceases to exist.  By itself it serves no function but to aid and reflect the evolving consciousness of an evolving species.  It is a sort of idea sink, but it itself produces no ideas...

I guess I see it as a necessary byproduct of consciousness/evolution, but itself holding less significance than the individual parts that make it up (actively conscious beings) because a collective unconscious alone cannot make any choices or really do anything in the tangible world.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: fall]
    #12961244 - 07/27/10 12:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12961569 - 07/27/10 01:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think our collective consciousness can be directly compared to the hive mentality in ants... due to our seemingly higher level of individual consciousness.  And in the case of neurons... the individual neurons aren't conscious and making decisions, they follow a very ordered and complex system which spawns our perception of the world.  And I get the analogy that people could be the neurons, etc., of the larger consciousness, but this consciousness we're talking about isn't physical like a human body is, and does not act on it's own.
When society 'does' something, it isn't like a snap decision is made, there are no traceable action potentials or neurotransmitters.. I would word this sentence:
"Society does make choices and does things in the tangible world, by taking the sum of the individual actions of its constituents."
like this:
'Society itself does not make choices and perform actions in the tangible world, it is simply a sum reflection of the individual actions of individual people.'
We're edging towards a free will discussion, so do you believe in free will?  I do mostly, from what I've experienced.  And I feel that delving into belief of a higher, collective consciousness which has a direct conscious effect on our world is straying into the world of religion, and unprovable/testable ideas... you know?

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: fall]
    #12961678 - 07/27/10 02:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12961694 - 07/27/10 02:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:43 AM)

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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: fall]
    #12961748 - 07/27/10 02:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I was on salvia in a deep deep ego shattering trip. i seen my future. and it indeed WAS TRUE, everything about it. at the time i didnt even like opiates, i just smoked weed. in my trip i was told i was going to get deep in opiates and now i am...about a year and a half later.  through out the time since that trip, I've experienced Deja vu a lot, and its crazy because i REMEMBER it from that trip! crazy stuff right? So another part during that trip, i was seeing out of other people's eyes, but i couldn't go in their body. kind of like 2 circles with images in them and total darkness around. i could look in them like a microscope then another set would come and a different image would be there and so on. salvia is one CRAZY drug. I think we are ALL the SAME (mind,person,spirit, whatever you may call it) just living in different times, in different bodys yet all at the same time, since we experience "time" on this earth. "time" does not even exist when you are on salvia. It felt like i was there for month's but in reality...it was only about 15 minutes. when i woke up, i felt "dead" and very confused. if anyone has ?'s about anything i said or about my trip let me know. lets figure out "life"... haha

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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: gcboyallday]
    #12961780 - 07/27/10 02:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

BTW...for anyone interested, Read this page. It has a crazy theory that seems right to me since after my trips...it just kinda makes sense. please check it out and let me know what you think! its wild!
EDIT: sorry i know that page is long but just skim through or if you can, read it! its worth it.

http://www.wedietorememberwhatwelivetoforget.com/

Edited by gcboyallday (07/27/10 02:31 PM)

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Offlinefall
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #12961791 - 07/27/10 02:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:

I definitely think we are seeing things differently. I don't think it makes a difference that we have a higher level of individual consciousness. The difference between the hive mind of an ant colony and the consciousness of the ants, I feel, is analgous to the difference between the hive mind of humanity and the mind of an individual human. Society is extraordinarily complex. It has its own division of labor, it has its own moral forcings on every human being, and the sum of our actions influences every human being from birth.

Furthermore, it does have a physical structure... the internet and wires like nerve cells, the roads we create like arteries and veins, the buildings are its bones. Sometimes society, a crowd, a country loses all control from individuals and acts out. Every human being is drawn to the herd mentality... riots, mass panic, war... Likewise, the collective of humanity is smarter than any individual. Just look at wikipedia. Its entirely created by a mass system of edits/unedits and is the most broad and deep source of information that exists on the planet. No one human is responsible for it, but collectively, it has been created by us and is thus utilized by each individual to complete problems successfully. The internet as a whole is a good example of the same thing. We are learning to manifest our collective consciousness and utilize it to our advantage, and we are becoming better able to imprint more of ourselves onto it.

You mention that when society does something, there are no traceable action potentials. Remember that an action potential results in the exchange of neurotransmitters after an individual neuron receives a neurotransmitter. Also remember that these action potentials come from outside stimuli, sensory neurons that relate information about its local environment and send that information to the hive, the collective of neurons, that passes that information through millions of channels before our brain takes a collective action.

I think that just because we don't know how to trace the action potentials of humanity does not mean that they are untraceable. I think that in many cases, you can trace the mass effect of a crowd to individual beginnings. Look at the love parade, some initial action caused a panic, which in tern caused more panic, which reverberated throughout the crowd until people died. Words and the exchange of ideas and actions from one person to another are action potentials.




I see the roads, highways, pipelines, internet, etc, as biproducts of our conscious society just like the collective unconscious.  They were created to serve a collective need, but necessitated the individual conscious human beings to dream up the ideas and the means to bring them into reality.  I don't know much about ant psychology, but I doubt each ant has the capability for abstract thought.  I'll still agree that there is a collective unconscious, and that all those analogies do apply... but jumping a step further and assuming our collective conscious is an active member in some larger existence (thinking a fractal reality deal) is going too far based off of what we know.  I'll say that it does have a direct effect on every human, and does shape thought to a large extent, but itself is still imaginary... and would cease existing without humans.
It would be totally cool, and just about as possible as everything else in this realm of thought, if our collective consciousness did have some impact further than assisting humans living in an evolving culture, if it were actually sentient, etc.  But I just don't see the reason to assume such a thing

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Offlinegcboyallday
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: fall]
    #12976710 - 07/30/10 12:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

c'mon people. post up...this is a great thread

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: gcboyallday]
    #13007100 - 08/05/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

finally got to watch this flick...it was like "naked lunch" meets "shutter island"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (08/05/10 12:30 PM)

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Offlinemesoamerican
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Re: Inception and this world being a dream [Re: Annapurna1]
    #15166344 - 10/02/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I know for a fact earth world isn't the only realm that is true. I see earth life as a dream. I feel we are on this dream called "earth" where gravity exist and the laws of physics apply to every single organism on earth. In this world, denial of the truth is our comfort zone. We are comfortable in this world because in this dream, things make more sense than the irregular realms where there are no rules and laws. But there is something trying to wake us up and it's the curiosity for knowing what else is out there. For very religious people, heaven is where they want to go. For others there is reincarnation, the spirit world or just the energy world where we live as a frequency only (souls). Maybe our goal is to reach enlightenment but we fear pain and death and it's very difficult to transcend to the other side. What if we never die. What if when we are dying, we suffer through pain and then we come back as the same person in a different time in another dream. What if our memories are purposely made to deceive ourselves. What if we had died many times and we just don't know it and we keep coming back to this "earth" dream over and over again... like a broken record that skips. That is a sad life.. but it could be reality. What if there is no happy ending and we keep coming back here for some strange reason. The worst thing.... to me.. is if i'm really in a mental institution believing I'm really here at home typing on shroomery.com.. that's going to suck.. who knows.. oh well.. But what can I do.. I'll just live life how I think I want it to be. :confused:


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