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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
    #12951143 - 07/25/10 03:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Akira said:
Quote:

Newbie said:
I'm officially stepping out of this argument.  Even if science found an answer to everything as we know it, religious people would still say, "Yeah?  Well that's because god said so."


*towl is thrown in*



About two pages ago^^^^^^^


LOLZ. I guess the temptation was too much!





you thinking he's a fundamentalist

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
    #12951149 - 07/25/10 04:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Newbie said:
I guess I only really need to be concerned with religion when it's being forced into my face.





right but what most of the anti religion crowd fails to realize is that
they do the same things as the religious, they throw it in everyone's face

it's 2 sides of the same coin

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OfflineAkira
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12951157 - 07/25/10 04:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Newbie said:
Not trying to be a smartass or anything, but what is your own distinction between religion and science?





that they're both filled with idiots and nut bags while the majority are
pretty normal, intelligent people, that each should follow their own paths
and leave each other alone since non of the fundies know how to play nice




Although the religious half do seem to have a bigger half of idiots.

At least stupid atheists/scientists can give a crappy explanation for whatever they believe. Where areas in religion a huge portion just kinda believe a bunch of shit but never can give you an explanation.


--------------------

Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek

"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."

We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh

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OfflineNewbieS
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12951170 - 07/25/10 04:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well yeah, that's what I mean.  Anytime I see/hear a religious argument I go full force with my science.  I'm beginning to realize that I'm prolly better off just letting it go and only speaking about atheism on the defense, not the offense.  Less violence, less disagreement.

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OfflineF0SS1L
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
    #12951195 - 07/25/10 04:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It's not worth the time and effort trying to change peoples minds. Most people won't anyways. With friends/people I respect I'm much more hesitant to point out their crazy beliefs, but I'd also be a fair bit more convincing in the long run. Things tend to be more civil in a small conversation as well.

In general though religious arguments just turn into yelling contests and unnecessarily long threads.


--------------------
That's me on the street with a violin under my chin. Playing with a grin, singing gibberish.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
    #12951200 - 07/25/10 04:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Akira said:
Although the religious half do seem to have a bigger half of idiots.

At least stupid atheists/scientists can give a crappy explanation for whatever they believe. Where areas in religion a huge portion just kinda believe a bunch of shit but never can give you an explanation.




do you honestly believe that?

this is what higher education has brought us, a former professor at Auburn, she is just one example




http://www.drjudywood.com/

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OfflineXDS
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12951206 - 07/25/10 04:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

she's batshit

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
    #12951225 - 07/25/10 04:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Newbie said:
Well yeah, that's what I mean.  Anytime I see/hear a religious argument I go full force with my science.  I'm beginning to realize that I'm prolly better off just letting it go and only speaking about atheism on the defense, not the offense.  Less violence, less disagreement.




I had a very lengthy discussion with a seventh day adventist, by lengthy I
mean we talked for several hours, in the beginning he absolutely refused to
discuss his beliefs because he felt I had some secret agenda to tell him
his beliefs were wrong, once I managed to twist his arm hard enough he
really opened up, I discussed his believes based on the greatest of
scientific principals, to gain a better understanding

I do not condemn anyone for their beliefs, it's simply not my place, I
cant tell them that they believe in the wrong thing because for them
it's not wrong, all I can strive to do is to understand and hope they do
as well

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: XDS]
    #12951230 - 07/25/10 04:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

XDS said:
she's batshit






TAKE IT BACK!

that's an insult to batshit

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OfflinePhychotron
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: XDS]
    #12951232 - 07/25/10 04:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I worked with this one kid that wore a wedding ring because he was married to god. He eventually moved to Chicago to go to priest college. He said professional preachers can make bank, 100K+/yr


--------------------
On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible. 

Only the foolish fear the inevitable.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Phychotron]
    #12951239 - 07/25/10 04:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

oral roberts, pat robertson... way more than $100k/yr

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OfflinePhychotron
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12951257 - 07/25/10 04:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

obviously there will be a few stand out cases, but he was talking about right out of school.


--------------------
On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible. 

Only the foolish fear the inevitable.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Phychotron]
    #12951385 - 07/25/10 04:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

$100k and all the underage ass he can handle... Hmmmm.

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Offlinegnulnx
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
    #12951407 - 07/25/10 04:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'd just like to add my two cents to this argument...as a scientist.

For me it is science that makes me believe in GOD.  The very fact that the universe would fly apart if force constants were off by 0.0000001 suggest creative design to me. 

Also what makes you so sure your scientific based universe is so real.  Consider that your human brain has a very delicate balance of neurotransmitters that when even slightly out of whack cause extreme distortions in perception. Consider that DMT, Psiolcin, and other tryptamines are essentially neurotransmitters with slightly different affinities for 5HT receptors than serotonin.  What I'm saying is you are defining what's real based you what you see, touch , taste and feel.  That's not necessarily the correct way to view the world.  When you sleep you see, taste, touch and smell the world with your brain as well.  If you can slightly alter your brain chemistry and allow your perception to be completly skewed who's to say that we didn't evolve with a "slightly" skewed point of reference?  Who's to say those auras you see on pshychelecs aren't real?  Who's to say that the psychedelic view is not "more" correct?  Who's to say these is an incorrect perception?  What is perception? 

Furthermore have you actually pondered what real is?  What is this fabric of reality that exists..sure it's got atoms and quirks and all sort of great things that us scientists are labeling and classifysing, but what is it?  Where did it come from?  Why did it happen?

It's because I'm a scientist and I see that the more we learn the more we don't understand that I believe in some sort of divine power for lack of a better word.  There won't ever be an answer to life that disproves all of religion.  O

Consider this.  Can you prove the stories of the Bible are in fact false?  Several religions talk of a great flood.  Buddha had an immaculate birth.  I'm not saying I believe it all, but I'm saying you can't disprove it anymore than they can prove it.  Yes I understand that we have a lot of evidence on the side of no immaculate birth, but you sure won't be able to dis-prove something form 2000 years ago.

Fact is believe in religion or not.  Either way it's just a belief.  Neither is more irrational than the other.

Religion...sure I get your points about the Church, I was raised in the deep south.  My only issue with Christians (and it's only an extreme few) are when they feel compelled to preach the gospel to me...save your breath please..I know the gospel. 

Ok that was my worthless 2 cents worth.


--------------------
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
--Ghandi

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OfflineAkira
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: gnulnx]
    #12951453 - 07/25/10 05:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

First says ---
Quote:

gnulnx said:
Also what makes you so sure your scientific based universe is so real.




Then proceeds to use science to prove his point
Quote:

gnulnx said:
Consider that your human brain has a very delicate balance of neurotransmitters that when even slightly out of whack cause extreme distortions in perception. Consider that DMT, Psiolcin, and other tryptamines are essentially neurotransmitters with slightly different affinities for 5HT receptors than serotonin.  What I'm saying is you are defining what's real based you what you see, touch , taste and feel.  That's not necessarily the correct way to view the world.  When you sleep you see, taste, touch and smell the world with your brain as well.  If you can slightly alter your brain chemistry and allow your perception to be completly skewed who's to say that we didn't evolve with a "slightly" skewed point of reference?  Who's to say those auras you see on pshychelecs aren't real?  Who's to say that the psychedelic view is not "more" correct?  Who's to say these is an incorrect perception?  What is perception? 

Furthermore have you actually pondered what real is?  What is this fabric of reality that exists..sure it's got atoms and quirks and all sort of great things that us scientists are labeling and classifysing, but what is it?  Where did it come from?  Why did it happen?

It's because I'm a scientist and I see that the more we learn the more we don't understand that I believe in some sort of divine power for lack of a better word.  There won't ever be an answer to life that disproves all of religion.  O

Consider this.  Can you prove the stories of the Bible are in fact false?  Several religions talk of a great flood.  Buddha had an immaculate birth.  I'm not saying I believe it all, but I'm saying you can't disprove it anymore than they can prove it.  Yes I understand that we have a lot of evidence on the side of no immaculate birth, but you sure won't be able to dis-prove something form 2000 years ago.

Fact is believe in religion or not.  Either way it's just a belief.  Neither is more irrational than the other.

Religion...sure I get your points about the Church, I was raised in the deep south.  My only issue with Christians (and it's only an extreme few) are when they feel compelled to preach the gospel to me...save your breath please..I know the gospel. 

Ok that was my worthless 2 cents worth.





:costanza:


--------------------

Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek

"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."

We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh

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Offlinegnulnx
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
    #12951480 - 07/25/10 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes I used to science to prove that science can't be trusted.

How else would you have liked to me to have argued it?  Should I have used pseudoscience?  what is your point with that statement?

Why does there have to be a division between science and faith?

I was trying to challenge you to think outside the box..but if you want to crawl back into the box then I won't stop you.


--------------------
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
--Ghandi

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OfflinePhychotron
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: gnulnx]
    #12951826 - 07/25/10 06:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gnulnx said:
The very fact that the universe would fly apart if force constants were off by 0.0000001




Constants are merely numerical correction factor designed to more accurately model a measured data. The only way they can be off is by human calculation error.


--------------------
On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible. 

Only the foolish fear the inevitable.

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Offlinegnulnx
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Phychotron]
    #12951888 - 07/25/10 06:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Constants are merely numerical correction factor designed to more accurately model a measured data. The only way they can be off is by human calculation error.




Good Point...and it was kind of my point as well.  Human perception makes our universe what it is.  Dogs don't perceive it like us, bacteria certainly don't.

Personaly I think evolution is in a sense a mass return to God as life continues to evolve greater and greater sense faculties with which to percieve the Universe.  I don't think the word seperate has any meaning in the "real" universe..

But I can openly say that's just a theory I have. I have no more of a clue than the next person.  I'm just amazed and in awe of it all.


--------------------
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
--Ghandi

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