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OfflineFreedom
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Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization?
    #12951443 - 07/25/10 05:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I always here people say the reason pot is illegal is because some companies (pharmaceutical or tobacco or textile or whatever) stand to lose money.

Well if that is true, the way they would use pressure to keep it illegal is through lobbying. Is there evidence that any companies are lobbying against marijuana.


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Offlinegeorgetaburin
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Freedom]
    #12953373 - 07/25/10 11:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Most likely any law enforcement agency such as the DEA has people to lobby. Maybe even the cartels have people to lobby against it. Perhaps tobacco, but I think the tobacco and textile industries could benefit from marijuana legalization. The tobacco industries could start selling marijuana as well as tobacco. Nothing would stop them.
To answer your question, I have never heard of it.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Freedom]
    #12953404 - 07/25/10 11:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think the biggest contributors are the alcoholic beverage manufacturers, private prison systems, and law enforcement unions.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
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\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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Edited by Baby_Hitler (07/25/10 11:47 PM)


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #12953504 - 07/25/10 11:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

does a bear poop in the woods??...


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12953625 - 07/26/10 12:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The people lobbying for the reform of drug laws must be aware of the anti drug lobby...


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OfflineAlexD
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Freedom]
    #12953850 - 07/26/10 01:39 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I always here people say the reason pot is illegal is because some companies (pharmaceutical or tobacco or textile or whatever) stand to lose money





You always hear it because you hang out with lefties: there's nothing they wouldn't blame business for. Doesn't beg the question but still. Tobaco/pharmaceutical/textile would probably benefit from legalization. Alcoholic beverage manufacturers would probably suffer so I guess they may be lobbying. Some real evidence would be nice though.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: AlexD]
    #12959954 - 07/27/10 03:17 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

ACLU shot down the recent effort in Washington state to put a legalization bill on the ballot. They said it didn't address regulation; the ACLU didn't mention that a bill addressing legality and regulation is illegal under state law.

So, in Washington the ACLU has lobbied against marijuana reform...assholes...:confused:


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12960259 - 07/27/10 07:05 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
does a bear poop in the woods??...




apparently not since no one has shown any evidence


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: AlexD]
    #12960427 - 07/27/10 08:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
ACLU shot down the recent effort in Washington state to put a legalization bill on the ballot. They said it didn't address regulation; the ACLU didn't mention that a bill addressing legality and regulation is illegal under state law.

So, in Washington the ACLU has lobbied against marijuana reform...assholes...:confused:





but the ACLU is behind  California's legalization effort.
Quote:

AlexD said:
Quote:

I always here people say the reason pot is illegal is because some companies (pharmaceutical or tobacco or textile or whatever) stand to lose money





You always hear it because you hang out with lefties: there's nothing they wouldn't blame business for. Doesn't beg the question but still. Tobaco/pharmaceutical/textile would probably benefit from legalization. Alcoholic beverage manufacturers would probably suffer so I guess they may be lobbying. Some real evidence would be nice though.





I guess a better question, from my naive point of view, would be: How is lobbying tracked, if at all?

I also doubt that many companies have much of an interest in marijuana.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Freedom]
    #12961375 - 07/27/10 01:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
Well if that is true, the way they would use pressure to keep it illegal is through lobbying. Is there evidence that any companies are lobbying against marijuana.




Nope. The day you have an official list showing you who, how much money and the reason why companies "buy" your democratic (lol) elected representatives, that day would be a fine blow to the neo-fascist regime you've got there.

Till then we do what's at hand, which is "to wonder" and "to suppose" ... if you believe them, then don't worry, as they "know" ...


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #12962395 - 07/27/10 04:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
ACLU shot down the recent effort in Washington state to put a legalization bill on the ballot. They said it didn't address regulation; the ACLU didn't mention that a bill addressing legality and regulation is illegal under state law.

So, in Washington the ACLU has lobbied against marijuana reform...assholes...:confused:



To clarify the ACLU's position, I'll post the ACLU response:




...our public opinion research indicates that while a large majority of Washingtonians support reducing the penalty for adult possession of marijuana from a crime to a civil penalty, support for legalization is less solid.
.
.
.
A negative vote on the initiative would be a significant setback for our ongoing reform movement. Failure to pass an ambitious marijuana legalization initiative sends the message that legalization is not what the public wants, deflates our activists, and discourages new constituencies from joining the push for much-needed reforms.





They're not AGAINST this; they just want it to PASS!


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OfflineMike711
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #12962789 - 07/27/10 05:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

yea you cant go into a courtroom half cocked and expect results


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #12967367 - 07/28/10 03:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
ACLU shot down the recent effort in Washington state to put a legalization bill on the ballot. They said it didn't address regulation; the ACLU didn't mention that a bill addressing legality and regulation is illegal under state law.

So, in Washington the ACLU has lobbied against marijuana reform...assholes...:confused:



To clarify the ACLU's position, I'll post the ACLU response:

...our public opinion research indicates that while a large majority of Washingtonians support reducing the penalty for adult possession of marijuana from a crime to a civil penalty, support for legalization is less solid.
.
.
.
A negative vote on the initiative would be a significant setback for our ongoing reform movement. Failure to pass an ambitious marijuana legalization initiative sends the message that legalization is not what the public wants, deflates our activists, and discourages new constituencies from joining the push for much-needed reforms.





They're not AGAINST this; they just want it to PASS!




You missed the point:

The ACLU supports marijuana legalization and will continue to work toward that goal.  However, we will not be supporting I-1068 because it does not provide a responsible regulatory system.

Under Washington state law an initiative can not address two issues at once. Legalization and regulation would be considered two separate issues. ACLU was just paying lip service...


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #12968558 - 07/28/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
Under Washington state law an initiative can not address two issues at once. Legalization and regulation would be considered two separate issues. ACLU was just paying lip service...



I don't know what your poinst is.  The ACLU didn't support this for the reasons they stated above (not enough public support to pass).  If your claim is correct (iniative cannot address two issues at once), all the more reason the ACLU position is valid.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: AlexD]
    #12969164 - 07/28/10 09:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AlexD said:
Quote:

I always here people say the reason pot is illegal is because some companies (pharmaceutical or tobacco or textile or whatever) stand to lose money





You always hear it because you hang out with lefties: there's nothing they wouldn't blame business for. Doesn't beg the question but still. Tobaco/pharmaceutical/textile would probably benefit from legalization. Alcoholic beverage manufacturers would probably suffer so I guess they may be lobbying. Some real evidence would be nice though.




That's ridiculous all pot smokers believe similar notions regardless of leftness or rightness (a foolishly polar way to look at the world). I doubt it's a serious risk to many companies though, pharmaceuticals could suffer but most of the areas where marijuana has a possible medical application are areas where the pharmaceutical industry are kicking dead-horse pattens around in an effort to milk what's left out of the anti-depressant/other psychotic/pain relief medication markets. I know they would be sad to see them go but I haven't noticed any innovation in these markets (though I am not a frequent observer of them) it's entirely possible that much of these groups have accepted the inevitability in a buisness lifetime of these changes.

IMO most lobbying probibly comes from religious institutions.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #12971316 - 07/29/10 11:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The first line in their statement is what you missed:

Quote:

The ACLU supports marijuana legalization and will continue to work toward that goal.  However, we will not be supporting I-1068 because it does not provide a responsible regulatory system.




They didn't support the initiative because it didn't [and couldn't!] address regulation.

Which is total BS.

We have a drug regulation system in place. No smoking within 25 feet of an indoor public space. No driving under the influence. No minors in possession. It wouldn't take much work to simply apply the appropriate rules to marijuana.

The ACLU position is indefensible. Their position is partly responsible for killing the initiative. Without their backing the I-1068 campaign lost donors and fell apart before the most important weekends of the initiative season.


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #12971858 - 07/29/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
The first line in their statement is what you missed:

Quote:

The ACLU supports marijuana legalization and will continue to work toward that goal.  However, we will not be supporting I-1068 because it does not provide a responsible regulatory system.




The ACLU position is indefensible. Their position is partly responsible for killing the initiative. Without their backing the I-1068 campaign lost donors and fell apart before the most important weekends of the initiative season.



The ACLU has a valid point - better to wait for an initiative that will pass (their research showed the version being proposed doesn't have a chance), than to put it on the ballot now only to have it voted down, damaging future attempts at legalization.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #12975294 - 07/30/10 01:00 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Their valid point seems misleading at best. They shot down I-1068 after just one month on the register and then said it lacked support. That lack of support is bullshit. The state democratic party voted (against their federal level cousins) to support the initiative. NORML supported the initiative. Fifty-six percent in a poll last January supported legalization.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=bbf73a14-44bd-47e1-ab45-89d98b3998e6

Initiatives only need a majority to pass. I think with the Seattle Metro, Whatcom County, and Spokane the initiative had a fair chance to pass even with all of our red counties. Especially considering our red counties are highly agricultural and hemp would be legalized under these reforms. And I think the demographics are shifting towards more reasonable drug laws. Losing in November would not have killed a decades old movement.

Plus I want to point out that yearly the ACLU-WA puts marijuana reform before our representatives. Yearly those bills die without any time on the floor. That's just fucked.

Finally, I still don't understand the regulatory argument. It's a weed, it grows everywhere, naturally already. The only regulations that need to be in place are in the I-1068 text or are in place already. No MIPs, no DUIs, and no furnishing minors. What exactly needs to be regulated?


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #12977181 - 07/30/10 02:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
That lack of support is bullshit.... Fifty-six percent in a poll last January supported legalization.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=bbf73a14-44bd-47e1-ab45-89d98b3998e6



I don't know what questions the ACLU poll asked.  They've been around a while, and have a lot of smart lawyers working for them, so I'm guessing their polls were relevant.

Regardless, I am unaware of any evidence that the ACLU "lobbied against marijuana reform" (your words).  They simply didn't offer their support to I-1068.  It still could've gone on the ballot if enough signatures were obtained (where was all that support?)

I'm extremely certain the ACLU wouldn't have said a word against it if it got to that point.

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
Losing in November would not have killed a decades old movement.



A loss wouldn't kill the movement, but it might set it back a number of years.

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
Finally, I still don't understand the regulatory argument. It's a weed, it grows everywhere, naturally already. The only regulations that need to be in place are in the I-1068 text or are in place already. No MIPs, no DUIs, and no furnishing minors. What exactly needs to be regulated?



Hey, I'm on your side.  But the ACLU is pretty sure that 50%+ of Washington isn't.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Is there any evidence that companies are lobbying against marijuana legalization? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #12978570 - 07/30/10 08:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You're right. "Lobbied" is too strong a verb. The ACLU sat this one out, but I still think they damaged I-1068's chances. It seemed like after the ACLU punched holes in the campaign the Service Employees Union held back with their money. And money is what puts initiatives on the ballots. The trend seems to be that volunteers can gather about 100k signatures and hired petitioners clean up the other 140k.

I hope by January I'm less bitter and cynical about the whole ACLU-WA situation -- their statement sounds too much like they wanted credit for the initiative. I really hope they actually get behind the initiative drive. It seems like if they're really concerned about comprehensive reform, they should help write the initiative. Then let the people work on it year-to-year. Then when they think it's got a shot they can come forward and support it.

We're on the same side. The ACLU-WA and the rogue lawyers who wrote up I-1068 are on the same side. Hell, the people who put up the initiative to end the state's monopoly on liquor are on our side. Here's to next year and less drug law reform infighting. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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