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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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 Re: Time to disband churches?  [Re: Newbie]
#12950627 - 07/25/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:
So it's okay for religious institutions to disregard 1+1=2?
since when do they refuse to accept it, as I've stated, the vast majority
of christians do not accept the bible as a whole as being the word of god,
they dont see religion as being infallible yet the vast majority of
atheists have the preconceived notion that they do, so it would appear that
atheists choose not to see all the facts just as as few christians make
that choice
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 CorrosiveLiquid
Amature Mycologist
Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 930
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
#12950630 - 07/25/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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you offer no open mind and a closed heart...
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"In order to be a leader, you must FIRST be a follower!"
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, None but ourselves can free our minds."
"Don't gain the world and lose your soul, Wisdom is better than silver and gold"
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 24,716
Loc: SoCal 
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12950662 - 07/25/10 02:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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You HAD to keep me going... 
1+1=2 was an extreme example on my part, I admit, but it seems like religion produces magical and unaccountable answers to life's questions with the reasoning that, "It is the way it is because a higher, intelligent power says it is."
I'd like to see a christian/catholic/jewish/whatever institution open a branch of their own science to explain all of their 'miracles". Let's see how far THEIR experiment goes in 1,000,000 years.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: XDS]
#12950663 - 07/25/10 02:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
XDS said:
the new legislation removed reporting requirements, which required the organizations to separate their charitable functions from their religious functions.
So he permitted charitable funds to be used for religious purposes - a fairly big change i would have said and a nice payback for his fundie supporters.
once again, it was always permitted, it just removed the reporting
requirements, it's no different than government subsidizing businesses,
scientific research or anything else
that doesnt mean the government is rooted in religion
I oppose public funds going to religious, scientific, corporate or
charitable causes, it encourages corruption
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
#12950673 - 07/25/10 02:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:
it seems like religion produces magical and unaccountable answers to life's questions with the reasoning that
science does the same, I still need an answer for the origins of the
universe and the origins of life, there's a dozen models, some are
pushed as being the 'facts' yet it cant be replicated so these facts are
just like christ rising from the dead
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blazenn
rawdog the whale.
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 4,584
Loc:
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
#12950674 - 07/25/10 02:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:
I'd like to see a christian/catholic/jewish/whatever institution open a branch of their own science to explain all of their 'miracles". Let's see how far THEIR experiment goes in 1,000,000 years.
aren't we already discussing those institutions? that's pretty much what churches do. they just haven't come any farther than "and God said, let there be light" in the last 2,000 years.
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Akira
CosmicConsciousness
Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 2,283
Loc: Hay Un Mundo Mas Alla
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12950691 - 07/25/10 02:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Newbie said:
So it's okay for religious institutions to disregard 1+1=2?
since when do they refuse to accept it, as I've stated, the vast majority
of christians do not accept the bible as a whole as being the word of god,
they dont see religion as being infallible yet the vast majority of
atheists have the preconceived notion that they do, so it would appear that
atheists choose not to see all the facts just as as few christians make
that choice
Pris I disagree with you. As I stated earlier, the premise of Christianity is to believe that Jesus Christ dies for our sine and then "resurrected" three days later.
Christians believe in the literal resurrection of a human being. Tell me how that does not conflict with science or the simple logic that 1+1=2?
To say that people are resurrecting from the dead regardless of all the scientific understanding that we have of biology is like saying 1+1=5. I think thats what Newbie means.
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Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek
"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."
We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 24,716
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 35 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
#12950693 - 07/25/10 02:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:
You HAD to keep me going...
1+1=2 was an extreme example on my part, I admit, but it seems like religion produces magical and unaccountable answers to life's questions with the reasoning that, "It is the way it is because a higher, intelligent power says it is."
I'd like to see a christian/catholic/jewish/whatever institution open a branch of their own science to explain all of their 'miracles". Let's see how far THEIR experiment goes in 1,000,000 years.
Today we're experimenting on how a good human being ends up after death as opposed to someone who lived a good life. What's the control, what's the subject? You can't test religion.
Religion = theory based on fairytales.
Proven science = fact.
And until people realize otherwise, people will still be blowing each other up because their god disagrees with ours.
But that's like saying, until you're wrong, I'm right. That's why I'm done this discussion.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
#12950700 - 07/25/10 02:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Akira said:
Christians believe in the literal resurrection of a human being. Tell me how that does not conflict with science or the simple logic that 1+1=2?
I'll answer that as soon as I have an answer for how non living things
became living things that evolved into fishes, reptiles and eventually
humans and all the other species
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Akira
CosmicConsciousness
Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 2,283
Loc: Hay Un Mundo Mas Alla
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12950703 - 07/25/10 02:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Newbie said:
it seems like religion produces magical and unaccountable answers to life's questions with the reasoning that
science does the same, I still need an answer for the origins of the
universe and the origins of life, there's a dozen models, some are
pushed as being the 'facts' yet it cant be replicated so these facts are
just like christ rising from the dead
Science does not claim to have all the answers. However using the scientific knowledge available we can come to the conclusion that the answers offered by religious institutions are not an accurate model for reality.
Edit: For Prisoner concerning science and ansewrs
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Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek
"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."
We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh
Edited by Akira (07/25/10 02:40 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
#12950707 - 07/25/10 02:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:
Religion = thoery based on fairytales.
Proven science = fact.
explain abiogenisis please, science is fact so there's got to be an explanation
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
#12950718 - 07/25/10 02:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Akira said:
Science does not claim to have all the answers. However using the scientific knowledge available we can come to the conclusion that the answers offered by religious institutions are not an accurate model for reality.
take a look in the book of genesis, what's the order of creation
compare that order to the order of evolution
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XDS
alive at dawn
Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 446
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12950721 - 07/25/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Akira said:
Christians believe in the literal resurrection of a human being. Tell me how that does not conflict with science or the simple logic that 1+1=2?
I'll answer that as soon as I have an answer for how non living things
became living things that evolved into fishes, reptiles and eventually
humans and all the other species
None of the myths have been found to have any factual basis, many scientific theories have been proven correct. It does have a good track record of finding shit out about the world.
I still don't think religion and science need to be opposed to each other. Science is a methodology for finding out facts, religion has never claimed to be that, just the word of God/gods. What is a God anyway, I don't think the word even means anything.
How come the myths of dead religions are called myths but those of current religions are held to be true?
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Phychotron
Crazy Mofo
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Posts: 9,102
Loc: In A Forest Of Colossal F...
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: XDS]
#12950732 - 07/25/10 02:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think religion was invented to promote social structure. Take the barbarians (at birth is easiest) and make them valuable members of society. It was a way to step out of the dark ages by giving you a basic set of rules required to live in a civil state.
The stories they tell are merely ways of passing down values. They figured out the basics early on and wrote them down/stole them from other religions and changed the names and dates. And if people are dumb enough to take that stuff literally, let them.
Religion is the most primitive form of government, and by the time we founded the United States we had recognized and eliminate that government factor. By that time humans had already lived in a structured society and were 'generally good,' according to Locke
One of the problems with religion is that they have never updated their methods and continue to age.
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On a mission to prove that the truth gets you no where.
They tried the truth, It didn't work. Then they wrote the bible.
 Only the foolish fear the inevitable.
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Akira
CosmicConsciousness
Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 2,283
Loc: Hay Un Mundo Mas Alla
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12950746 - 07/25/10 02:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Akira said:
Science does not claim to have all the answers. However using the scientific knowledge available we can come to the conclusion that the answers offered by religious institutions are not an accurate model for reality.
take a look in the book of genesis, what's the order of creation
compare that order to the order of evolution
Ok.. what part would you like me to pick at?
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
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Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek
"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."
We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 24,716
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 35 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#12950748 - 07/25/10 02:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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From this diagram we can see that in relation to other celestial bodies, we ain't SHIT. What makes us so arrogant to think that in the grand scheme of the universe, god (in any religion) gives a flying fuck about the bacteria known as life? There are bigger things happening than that of here on Earth. We're nothing. We're a one quadrillionth-trillionth-billionth-millionth (prolly smaller) blip on the radar known as the universe and what makes us think that some god head cares that much about us to dictate our path to the afterlife/neural soup/unknown?
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Akira
CosmicConsciousness
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Posts: 2,283
Loc: Hay Un Mundo Mas Alla
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Newbie]
#12950768 - 07/25/10 02:48 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ohhh soooo scientific.. 
Quote:
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
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Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Bulk Steamer Pasteurizer Tek
"Our intention is our eternal fingerprint in the universe."
We know that God is good, and so are hamburgers and hot dogs. We know that hamburgers and hot dogs definitely do exist, so then by deduction of logic God too must also exist. Hamburgers + Hot dogs = God.... Duh
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: XDS]
#12950794 - 07/25/10 02:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
XDS said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Akira said:
Christians believe in the literal resurrection of a human being. Tell me how that does not conflict with science or the simple logic that 1+1=2?
I'll answer that as soon as I have an answer for how non living things
became living things that evolved into fishes, reptiles and eventually
humans and all the other species
None of the myths have been found to have any factual basis, many scientific theories have been proven correct. It does have a good track record of finding shit out about the world.
many of the 'facts' of science are still theory or model
has science disproved the land of nod, has it disproved egypt, has it
disproved the red sea or the dead sea, has it disproved that a man can
be swallowed by a 'whale' and survive to tell about it
Quote:
How come the myths of dead religions are called myths but those of current religions are held to be true?
the myths of buddhists and shinto are myths in the eyes of muslims and
christians, none of these are dead religions
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Newbie
User of semicolons.
Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 24,716
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 35 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
#12950811 - 07/25/10 02:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Akira said:
Ohhh soooo scientific..
Quote:
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Those are all earthly dictated responses. Are you saying god, the almighty creator is limit to our planet, after seeing the above diagram? Are you saying that god's so petty that he'd dictate our celestial outcome base on our lives, which are smaller than an electron in the grand scheme of the entire universe? "Night?" Massive stars don't know 'night'. 'Good'? evening? morning?' Those are earthly words. Earth is but a speck in the mess of solar systems, galaxies, star systems, etc... We're nothing compared to what's going on around us. Religion is arrogance.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Time to disband churches? [Re: Akira]
#12950822 - 07/25/10 02:57 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Akira said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Akira said:
Science does not claim to have all the answers. However using the scientific knowledge available we can come to the conclusion that the answers offered by religious institutions are not an accurate model for reality.
take a look in the book of genesis, what's the order of creation
compare that order to the order of evolution
Ok.. what part would you like me to pick at?
read my statement, figure it out for yourself
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