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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Agar base recipe
    #12905801 - 07/16/10 04:27 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Newbie quiz here...

I have bought some agar-agar, malt etcetera, and now I want to make my own agar.

I want to make a basic agar mixture, with no extra ingredients - so I just have to add whatever to x Cl of agar-mixture.

As I find there are some different amounts of agar in the most common recipes, I am not sure if it is big enough to care about.
But I would like to receive your opinions before I go ahead.

for example this one...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11770529/fpart/1/vc/1
One recipe mentioned there is
7 grams agar
7grams patato flakes
2 cups water

which gives... 2 cups is 0.473176473 liters, 
7 / 4.73176473 = 1.47936349 gram per deciliter.

The proportions is quite understandable because i think potato flakes adds some density to the water.

Another recipe in the same thread.
30 g Malt extract
20 g Agar
1 L Distilled water

which gives 20/ 10 = 2 gram per deciliter.


(malt extract, is that the syrup thingy malt, or is it spraymalt or ...?)

And there is also mentioned PDYA with the same proportions between water and agar

BUT, in PDYA there is also some potato flakes added, which makes what I wrote first here about proportions to fail.

And in FastFred's Media Cookbook many recipes uses 9 g agar to 500 ml water, which give 1.8 grams per dl
And many other recipes in the cookbook says 15-20 gram agar for one liter water.

And many other recipes in FastFred's doesn't tells anything about the amount of water.

So- as I not received my scale yet, I would like to take my 25 grams pack of agar and mix it with 1.25 liters of water to keep the proportions of 2 to 1, follow which recipe i like and not think that much more about some percent more or less of the agar concentration.?

Is it a good idea to do so.?

Of course i should take care about the percentage of the other ingredients compared to the amount of my basic-agar recipe..

IF this question was just plain silly dumb so then  please excuse me, i am a newbie. But i HAVE spent some good time reading on the forums-particular about this.


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OfflineTolerated
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12905841 - 07/16/10 05:04 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Malt extract is a powder available from Brewing stores....

My Agar Mix: 10g Agar,9g M/E to 400ml water for a firm setting Agar.


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12905869 - 07/16/10 05:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The malt that i got from my homebrewing store is
Coopers malt extract http://www.brew-it-yourself.co.uk/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=497

and Muntons spraymalt http://homebrewwest.ie/muntons-foil-pack-spraymalt-light-500grm-49-p.asp

coopers is like syrup, tastes very sweet and reminds me about thick dark syrup.

Muntons spraymalt is powder and yellow to the color, consistence slightly the same as powder-milk..

Both claims to be 100 percent malt.

I bought the light version of them both.

So it's spraymalt i should use here.? Is there a big difference between them, could i use coopers as sweetener.?


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12906134 - 07/16/10 08:25 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The home brew recipe I've used with great success is:
1 cup water
4.5 g agar powder
2 tablespoons potato flakes
1 teaspoon honey

I use hot water to aid in dissolving it, then use a hand mixer wand thingy to really blend it well so you don't get any lumps or inconsistencies.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: gornyhuy] * 1
    #12906189 - 07/16/10 08:59 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The agar-agar is simply the gelling agent.  You use malt, potato flakes, dog food, etc., as the nutrient source.  The correct amount of agar-agar is 17 to 20 grams per liter of water.  If you're using agar to germinate spores, go with 17 grams per liter for a slightly 'wetter' plate.  If it's already established mycelium, use 20 grams of agar-agar per liter of water.
RR


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12907164 - 07/16/10 01:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The agar-agar is simply the gelling agent.  You use malt, potato flakes, dog food, etc., as the nutrient source.


I know, that's why i want a basic agar recipe which i can add nutrient source's to.

Quote:

If you're using agar to germinate spores, go with 17 grams per liter for a slightly 'wetter' plate.  If it's already established mycelium, use 20 grams of agar-agar per liter of water.


That clarified the most to me, now I slightly starting to learn something.

I have very few spores left, but i have some small batches of mycelium, some of them just  on 50 % cat-pooh + 50 water, other on 25 % cat-pooh + 25% cat food + 50% water, (I am glad that i have a cat :smile: )...Yesterday I put them in cups ala some tech i found here at shroomery where one person had it cultivate in plastic cups. (if someone find that tech, please can you link it here - that would be much appreciated).


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12907574 - 07/16/10 02:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Now at least I know what I shall do.

I have bought some more agar,and distilled water (i hope "battery-water" works.?) so I will make three base-batches out of it, one which is 20gram/L, one which is 17gram/L and one that is 23gram/L - then for every cultivating/cloning etcetera i do - i add equal nutriments to each of them - so there will be the same circumstances. And then i will see which work best - fastest - less contamination - etcetera. And yes i know that's not possible to get 100% equal situations when handling parts of living species, one piece of the mycel may be little stronger than another strain of it...thats why i am going to do this during a period (the period that i need to become a good cultivator).

I don't doubt at all for what RogerRabbit say, I just want to see in the real life thats it's as he says. And i shpild not have done this experiment if i not got that information about when and how to use the dencity of agar (which i maybe should have named this thread to in the beginning).

Another question, i recently read a research (posted at this forum.?) where they had examined the percentage of psilocybin and psilocin  at different agar recipes (just agar and malt.?). Particularly the percentage was  in relation to how much malt was added (if i remember it correctly), and it come out that the more malt - the more of the active substances there was in the shrooms.

I would really like to know, does anyone know what is in the malt that make the shrooms more potent.?

AFAIK so is malt just germinated and then stalled grains, often rye (but can also be based on wheat or other cereals)-thats then  - which means that there are a lot of "power to grow"-nutrients  that are stalled in the malt - and that the shrooms take advantage of. But as i see it, there should go to find the same thingy in other sources. I don't think that it much depends of what you are doing with the malt after it's stalled - think about it, the less is done (the lighter malt), the better for the mycel/shrooms - for example if you go the rye way, why not soak it to make it germinate - and then abort it with heat -cooking it/autoclave in oven  bag..- or some other method.....before you ....here i don't find the right English words - so please excuse me if i don't use your beautiful language in the most correct way...before you add spores or mycel to it.?

ALSO - i would like to know, has there been any experiment about how much malt you can use before it affect the mycel negatively.?

Still i would like to know, what IS it in the malt thats gives the shrooms potency...!?


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Edited by AstoriaOssip (07/16/10 02:27 PM)

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12907753 - 07/16/10 02:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

cat poo?


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: Doc_T]
    #12907818 - 07/16/10 03:13 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

That clarified the most to me, now i will make three or three batches of agar to take from, one that's 17 grams pr liter. One thats 20 grams pr liter and one thats 22 pr liter (some people seems to
Quote:

Doc_T said:
cat poo?




Yes, i did it as a test, first i toke cat poo and honey and water, but that got contaminated with mold. then i took cat 50% poo /50 % tap water, which  worked out quite well, i transferred some spots of myc from ME agar which i had bought from fisher scientific, (the agar - not the mycel :tongue: ).

I had a bucket with cat poo -  neither the bucket or the poo was distilled at all, i opened the lid to the bucket just to have a peek several times a day (this is new to me so i am still quite exited), i handled the mycel with unclean material - i did my best to contaminate it, with no success :laugh:

After a few days it was covered with thick white beautiful mycel...

Edited by AstoriaOssip (07/16/10 03:18 PM)

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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12907914 - 07/16/10 03:43 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AstoriaOssip said:
first i toke cat poo




:getstoned:
:lolsy:

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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: badman]
    #12908025 - 07/16/10 04:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

badman said:
Quote:

AstoriaOssip said:
first i toke cat poo




:getstoned:
:lolsy:



Yes , but i didn't try smoke  it -yet :eek:


--------------------
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Svensk ANTI-rasist
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

Edited by AstoriaOssip (07/16/10 08:29 PM)

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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12908113 - 07/16/10 04:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I hope we can go back to the facts here, I had some serious questions that i would like to hear some opinion about.


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12910975 - 07/17/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know, toking cat poo has me laughing out loud.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12910992 - 07/17/10 10:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AstoriaOssip said:
I hope we can go back to the facts here, I had some serious questions that i would like to hear some opinion about.




It makes no difference if you've used cat crap in your agar.  Nothing of benefit is going to grow on it.  Toss that crap out and make your agar as instructed above, or purchase pre-mixed agar from sporeworks.  Cat shit is not a suitable growing media nor is any manure from meat eating animals.  If using manure, only use what comes from grain and grass eating animals such as goats, cows, horses, llamas, etc, and not dogs, bears, humans, cats, cougars, monkeys, etc.
RR


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12915023 - 07/18/10 11:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

RR I don't know if this have anything with it to do, but my cat eat mostly dried cat-food which there is not that much meat in - i think it's mostly serials and soy product there in,and i know that the metabolism also got something with it to do but....

Still the fact - i used cat-poo  and water - only to get something like thick LE, and i had a good one or two millimeter thick layer of mycelium on the top of it.

While i awaiting my scale so i can work more seriously, i will repeat this cat-poo experiment once again, and i will be back in this posting later with photos when my little experiment is completed. I will redo it from start with more cans so i can use exactly the same parameters for some of the cans as i did earlier, and change a few for the other ones.

But i can tell - last time i got it to work there was some heat involved.


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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12915261 - 07/18/10 12:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

cat poop....lmfao!!
you cant feed a carnivore grass or whatever and get the same shit as from herbavores.
the digestive systems of these animals is different.



how long did you have to save your cats poop in a bucket to have enough?

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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12915372 - 07/18/10 01:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I will tell you when i am done, I come back later to this thread when I have a full report.


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OfflineAstoriaOssip
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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12962689 - 07/27/10 05:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, the test is half-part done.

I had three jars with 50%cat poo (which i had dried besides open fire) / 50% water with turbinado added, To each of them I also transferred mycel from my agar-plates.

I heat chocked them now and then on top of my Amazing Still 
http://www.ibrew.com.au/images/equipment/amazing%20still/Amazingstill1.jpg
(the pic is not mine)

I got one of them growing, not very slow - but on the slower side.

The ones where I had 25% pc'd poo/ 25% pc'd catfood / 50% tap-water works best, it grows quite fast.

I also had some success with one jar containing 25% not dried and not pc'd  catpoo / 25% pc'd cat food / 50% water. But it grows so slowly.

Probably this could be fine tuned by someone, but not me - I did this just as experiment (second time now) with the intention to learn something - and I know for sure that cat poo works, but there is some hassle.

Anyone that not have access to horse/cow manure but have a cat/dog may proceed this, but I think that I will ditch these cultures and - when I am more experienced - take use of what I can get from the stable which is close to where I live.


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Edited by AstoriaOssip (07/27/10 06:52 PM)

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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: AstoriaOssip]
    #12965103 - 07/28/10 01:34 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I would want to confirm that there are not disease elements
involved in cat poo.  I know that there are things that
we can get from them.


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Re: Agar base recipe [Re: Javadog]
    #12965130 - 07/28/10 01:53 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
I would want to confirm that there are not disease elements
involved in cat poo.  I know that there are things that
we can get from them.




like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

It's a really interesting disease actually...

Quote:

It has been found that the parasite has the ability to change the behaviour of its host: infected rats  and mice are less fearful of cats—in fact, some of the infected rats seek out cat-urine-marked areas. This effect is advantageous to the parasite, which will be able to proliferate as a cat could eat the infected rat and then reproduce.[23] The mechanism for this change is not completely understood, but there is evidence that toxoplasmosis infection raises dopamine levels and concentrates in the amygdala in infected mice.



Edited by acetylsalicylic (07/28/10 02:01 AM)

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