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OfflineKickleM
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Effort and responsibility
    #12902945 - 07/15/10 12:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Do we, as a species, have a responsibility to expend effort to survive?
How many careers produce something related to basic human needs? The majority? The minority?

Food, shelter, water, air, sex, health

vs.

entertainment

and which one makes more money?
Which one is valued more by us?
Which one is limitless and which one is limited?
Which one is imagination and which one is real?

Does anyone else feel like we're way off target?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineGreenvalley
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12902995 - 07/15/10 12:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Agree, our societies idea of value is completely distorted, the American culture is slowly dieing because of this. The majority thinks that green pieces of paper give things their perceived value, so when the monetary system becomes all screwed up everything stops. It stops because we think money is needed to buy things, to build things, to move things, and to create new things. Money is FAKE!


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12903000 - 07/15/10 12:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Our only responsibility, in my opinion, is to make ourselves and others feel good
so yeah, a majority of us are way the fuck off target
have you heard about this "Drug War?"

entertainment is about killing the time that our technology has freed up


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12903052 - 07/15/10 12:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)


entertainment is about killing the time that our technology has freed up


Do you have more time or less time with technology by your side?
Let go of the laptop and how much more time do you have?
Time to do what? Whatever you want.

There is nothing that says because a corporation has found a way of raising thousands of chickens in a tiny space using genetic alterations that you cannot raise your own chickens. People would just rather not raise chickens if someone else will do it for them. And if someone else will do it for them, they can spend more time entertaining themselves. Responsibility towards producing for basic human needs just went out the window, but it went through choice.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12903118 - 07/15/10 01:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Responsibility towards producing for basic human needs just went out the window, but it went through choice.




Feeling good is the most basic human need, which society has skillfully confused with the need for money
Which is good to some degree because everyone else fighting over paper makes the world more entertaining

Technology gives me more time to ascend Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs


--------------------
The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12903151 - 07/15/10 01:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Feeling good is the most basic human need? Why do you keep saying this?
A person who feels good but does not eat will still die.

This can be seen in rats. Give them the lever to the pleasure center of their brain and they will hit it non-stop, not even stopping to eat. Id say this represents a basic animal desire or motivation, but not a basic need. You will not die without feeling good. You will die without food. Which one do you need and which one do you desire?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12903226 - 07/15/10 01:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The purpose of everything you do is rooted in trying to feel good
The sanctification of every other need begins with the desire to feel good
We only eat and breathe and do the things that keep us alive because those things feel good and the alternative feels bad


--------------------
The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12903247 - 07/15/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That kinda stems from my beliefs, though, so that argument isn't very strong on this forum
I believe that God is the feeler, you are God feeling Kickle, not Kickle feeling Kickle
To serve God is to feel good because you feeling good means God feels good


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12903269 - 07/15/10 01:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

still seems to me like you're describing a motivation or desire, not a need.
I need to eat and what motivates me to do this is 1) the alleviation of hunger and 2) the pleasure gained from tasty foods.

But even if the food tastes like shit, if nothing else is available Im still going to eat because of #1.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12903320 - 07/15/10 01:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Would you consider this argument need-to-survive vs. need-to-feel-good?

You have to survive to feel good
but you, arguably, have to feel the potential of feeling good to feel a need to survive
If you were born into a place like Hell and knew you would never feel good and had the option of suicide, what would you do?

The suicide hotline in Hell would be like
You: hey, I'm gonna kill myself
Operator: good idea
          or worse
Operator: too bad

But I can't disagree with you any further
It's kinda apples and oranges IMO


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12904555 - 07/15/10 08:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, it is. I just figured id debate in this forum.
Does anyone else have any ideas about where we should put our effort?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12904586 - 07/15/10 08:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I do. Put forth effort where ever it pleases you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Kickle]
    #12904776 - 07/15/10 09:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Do we, as a species, have a responsibility to expend effort to survive?
How many careers produce something related to basic human needs? The majority? The minority?

Food, shelter, water, air, sex, health

vs.

entertainment

and which one makes more money?
Which one is valued more by us?
Which one is limitless and which one is limited?
Which one is imagination and which one is real?

Does anyone else feel like we're way off target?



I think it's a mistake to try to generalize humanity as one, It just doesn't work that way.
You could answer for yourself, but that will only represent your own constructs. Everyone, is all ages from lvl 1 - 100 . How could you jumble all of that together?



Which one is valued more by me?
***

I only feel obligated to make positive impact with my life, for whatever end.


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OfflineAngryPhil
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Registered: 01/22/09
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: Icelander]
    #12904854 - 07/15/10 09:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah, I do. Put forth effort where ever it pleases you.




Chya, there's only one person in this world you really have to worry about
unless someone's trying to kill you or ruin your life I guess


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Effort and responsibility [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12905322 - 07/15/10 11:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Do we, as a species, have a responsibility to expend effort to survive?
How many careers produce something related to basic human needs? The majority? The minority?

Food, shelter, water, air, sex, health

vs.

entertainment

and which one makes more money?
Which one is valued more by us?
Which one is limitless and which one is limited?
Which one is imagination and which one is real?

Does anyone else feel like we're way off target?



I think it's a mistake to try to generalize humanity as one, It just doesn't work that way.
You could answer for yourself, but that will only represent your own constructs. Everyone, is all ages from lvl 1 - 100 . How could you jumble all of that together?



Which one is valued more by me?
***

I only feel obligated to make positive impact with my life, for whatever end.




I recognize the danger of blanket generalizations. In fact, I think they are just as dangerous to apply on the individual level as on the collective. Hence the inclusion of minority/majority. I have no intention of lumping all people into some category. But I can observe the majority trends. does anyone live in a location where the majority of people want to be farmers when they grow up? What about famous? Rich? Etc...


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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