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c1dh3d
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Can police open sealed mail during a car search?
#12901773 - 07/15/10 03:39 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've been reading up on different methods people use to transport drugs, and I am really not liking the ass-it consensus I am seeing. I am going to be moving from the top of the U.S. to the bottom, more than likely in my car with whatever I can pack into it, driving by myself. I have a couple relatively small amounts of stuff I'd like to bring with, and I have read a couple times throwing it in sealed USPS mail with stamps on it, is a pretty safe way to go.
I know cops are generally pieces of scummy shit when it comes to car searches out of boredom, and will drag in drug dogs to false alert to continue their search, but could they search sealed mail with a bull shit false alert from a dog?
My best idea to date is getting a couple of the strongest magnets I can purchase, completely duct taping the stash to the magnets, then putting those magnets somewhere up inside of the frame. The questionable items I am carrying have a very faint smell that I'd imagine hardly permiates, and there will be no pot anywhere inside the car as I don't touch that stuff, so there should be absolutely no reason to search unless its some bored hick cop.
Any ideas?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12901849 - 07/15/10 04:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that a dog alerting on your package would be enough to have them open it.
The advantage to the package method is that it's a specifically protected area and also requires it's own probable cause. Just because the dog alerts on your car doesn't mean they can open the package. The dog would have to indicate specifically on the package.
But I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a fully packed car they aren't going to search. Drive during the day and your chances of getting searched are 1 in a million.
I once had a car about half full of trash and got pulled over. The cop saw "skunk" brand hemp rolling papers in my car. He said "Do you know what this makes me think?" I said "What of it?". He wanted to search and I had a few problems with the car, dirty plate cover, just bought so it wasn't registered to me, etc.. I had also tried to avoid him on the freeway and he knew it.
Anyways I let him search just to get a kick out of seeing him rummage through all that trash. He spent about 3 minutes looking around and then sent me on my way. He did a quick check under the seats, looked in the glovebox, and a quick handswipe under the dash. That's it. He also kind of pushed the trash around a bit.
Cops aren't going to just do a hard target 2 hour search on you for no reason. Cops are lazy adrenaline junkies. They don't like work, that's why they became cops in the first place.
-FF
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milkman
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12902166 - 07/15/10 08:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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dont ever doubt the police, once you say yes office search the vehicle. They most likely will SEARCH it.
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)


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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: milkman]
#12902172 - 07/15/10 08:23 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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put that shit under the hood, in your air-cleaner box or windsheild washer fluid container. That way if they search your car, they will find nothing. If they ask to look under the hood, you say,"you have already searched the cab and found nothing. You have no probable cause to search any longer. I'm in a hurry. Get a warrant if you want to search more, I allowed you to search and you found nothing, so I know you can't get a legitamate search warrant
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12902427 - 07/15/10 10:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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> Get a warrant if you want to search more, I allowed you to search and you found nothing, so I know you can't get a legitamate search warrant
Perhaps one of the worst bits of advice I have read in a while. Getting into a pissing match about "your rights" with police is the absolute wrong approach. It does nothing but give a bored cop something to do, putting you in your place.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12902481 - 07/15/10 10:24 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said: put that shit under the hood, in your air-cleaner box or windsheild washer fluid container. That way if they search your car, they will find nothing. If they ask to look under the hood, you say,"you have already searched the cab and found nothing. You have no probable cause to search any longer. I'm in a hurry. Get a warrant if you want to search more, I allowed you to search and you found nothing, so I know you can't get a legitamate search warrant
I'd have to assume that once you give them permission to search your car, they would help themselves to searching the trunk / hood without explicitly asking permission again.
Quote:
fastfred said: Anyways I let him search just to get a kick out of seeing him rummage through all that trash. He spent about 3 minutes looking around and then sent me on my way. He did a quick check under the seats, looked in the glovebox, and a quick handswipe under the dash. That's it. He also kind of pushed the trash around a bit.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12902937 - 07/15/10 12:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
c1dh3d said: and I have read a couple times throwing it in sealed USPS mail with stamps on it, is a pretty safe way to go.
I don't think that having it in sealed USPS mail will give you any extra protection unless it is actually in the mail stream.
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All We Perceive
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12903630 - 07/15/10 02:55 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
c1dh3d said:
Quote:
paducahovoids said: put that shit under the hood, in your air-cleaner box or windsheild washer fluid container. That way if they search your car, they will find nothing. If they ask to look under the hood, you say,"you have already searched the cab and found nothing. You have no probable cause to search any longer. I'm in a hurry. Get a warrant if you want to search more, I allowed you to search and you found nothing, so I know you can't get a legitamate search warrant
I'd have to assume that once you give them permission to search your car, they would help themselves to searching the trunk / hood without explicitly asking permission again.
Actually, you can revoke consent at your leisure once you give it. Thus, any items seized from a search instigated by consent but after consent is withdrawn would be inadmissible.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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UniversalParadox
Stranger Than Fiction

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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12904508 - 07/15/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Put it in an envelope with stamps and when the policia find it they'll charge you with conspiracy to mail a controlled substance, a federal crime.
Make a trap...start pulling things out and find a good hiding spot or put it under the hood. They can still find it.
-------------------- xM�� � �V� �c�R��H�P
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Irishdrunk
Democracy? We Deliver!!!

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 24,201
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: UniversalParadox]
#12904867 - 07/15/10 09:55 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Balloons in your colon is the best way.
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)


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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Irishdrunk]
#12905122 - 07/15/10 10:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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My family is in law enforcement.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12905193 - 07/15/10 11:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Put it in an envelope with stamps and when the policia find it they'll charge you with conspiracy to mail a controlled substance, a federal crime.
Nope. You can't have a conspiracy unless there's multiple people involved. They can't get you with attempted since you didn't actually make an attempt, i.e. actually try to mail it.
-FF
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c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12905611 - 07/16/10 01:44 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
Put it in an envelope with stamps and when the policia find it they'll charge you with conspiracy to mail a controlled substance, a federal crime.
Nope. You can't have a conspiracy unless there's multiple people involved. They can't get you with attempted since you didn't actually make an attempt, i.e. actually try to mail it.
-FF
I was actually going to comment on this earlier from my Droid, but got sidetracked. If I were to address it to myself, there would be no conspiracy, as it takes two to tango with that charge. I could probably actually take it one step further, and send an empty package to myself, and re-seal it with the items inside as USPS boxes are only sealed with packing tape.
I had kind of thought about the driving strictly during the day thing, and that seems like the best idea without a whole lot of extra pre-cautions, definitely not shoving anything up my ass - if it came to that point I'd just not bring it. I'm not that hard up for a high I could easily re-manufacture 
All responses are greatly appreciated, I'm gonna have to take that drive a mile at a time
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12907273 - 07/16/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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buy new drugs when you get to the new location
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c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




Registered: 07/15/08
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: yogabunny]
#12907281 - 07/16/10 01:33 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I haven't had to buy drugs in years
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: c1dh3d]
#12907285 - 07/16/10 01:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok well then, make new drugs, find them, whathaveyou.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12908034 - 07/16/10 04:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that a dog alerting on your package would be enough to have them open it.
The advantage to the package method is that it's a specifically protected area and also requires it's own probable cause. Just because the dog alerts on your car doesn't mean they can open the package. The dog would have to indicate specifically on the package.
But I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a fully packed car they aren't going to search. Drive during the day and your chances of getting searched are 1 in a million.
I once had a car about half full of trash and got pulled over. The cop saw "skunk" brand hemp rolling papers in my car. He said "Do you know what this makes me think?" I said "What of it?". He wanted to search and I had a few problems with the car, dirty plate cover, just bought so it wasn't registered to me, etc.. I had also tried to avoid him on the freeway and he knew it.
Anyways I let him search just to get a kick out of seeing him rummage through all that trash. He spent about 3 minutes looking around and then sent me on my way. He did a quick check under the seats, looked in the glovebox, and a quick handswipe under the dash. That's it. He also kind of pushed the trash around a bit.
Cops aren't going to just do a hard target 2 hour search on you for no reason. Cops are lazy adrenaline junkies. They don't like work, that's why they became cops in the first place.
-FF
No that's not true. I was living in my car with everything I owned and the cops searched everything, even took apart bic pens and shit.
It depends on more than one variable, but small town cops with time on their hands will tear apart your car if they think there are drugs in there.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Freedom]
#12909681 - 07/16/10 10:47 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, you must have given them good reason to think they'd find drugs. I'd bet it also happened at night when cops have nothing better to do. Living in your car also gives them a reason to spend time hassling you, hoping they'll get you to move on.
-FF
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Freedom
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12909734 - 07/16/10 11:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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it was at night and it was small town cops.
I was never hasseled in the parking lot I lived at, except for sound of snow plows scraping the lot at 4 in the morning...
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Jabbawaya

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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Freedom]
#12911509 - 07/17/10 12:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think you can actually revoke permission to search once you give it, and you certainly won't stop them from searching specific areas of your car. Chances are that the mentioned area will get torn up because you're obviously hiding something and you already voluntarily waived your 4th amendment rights .
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Jabbawaya]
#12911668 - 07/17/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jabbawaya said: I don't think you can actually revoke permission to search once you give it, and you certainly won't stop them from searching specific areas of your car. Chances are that the mentioned area will get torn up because you're obviously hiding something and you already voluntarily waived your 4th amendment rights .
You can revoke permission to search at any time, as long as they haven't found any probable cause yet.
There is case law where people got tired of the cops searching, told them to stop, then the cops didn't, found something, and the person was able to suppress the evidence because he revoked his consent to search before they found something illegal.
Never consent to a search. But if you fuck up and do consent to a search, don't just stand there. Change your mind as soon as possible and let the cops know that they can no longer search.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#12912118 - 07/17/10 03:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's pretty hard to prove exactly when consent was given and revoked. It will almost certainly come down to a lot of legal wrangling and a big headache for your lawyer.
-FF
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12912148 - 07/17/10 03:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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If your doing things that have you seriously concerned about this you could instal video cameras in the car and turn them on if pulled over.
but for a road trip it seems unnecessary. I moved across country, and spent three months doing it and had my box under a bunch of stuff in the car. There was never probable cause and I wasn't worried about it.
Edited by Freedom (07/17/10 03:41 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12913016 - 07/17/10 07:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
Put it in an envelope with stamps and when the policia find it they'll charge you with conspiracy to mail a controlled substance, a federal crime.
Nope. You can't have a conspiracy unless there's multiple people involved. They can't get you with attempted since you didn't actually make an attempt, i.e. actually try to mail it.
that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Freedom]
#12913029 - 07/17/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: If your doing things that have you seriously concerned about this you could instal video cameras in the car and turn them on if pulled over.
cops already have video and audio recording, discovery produces the footage
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12922887 - 07/20/10 04:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
Just to reiterate... You can't have a conspiracy unless there are two or more people involved. Unless you have multiple personalities you can't conspire with yourself. Even then it doesn't meet the legal definition.
Conspiracy is a much lower burden of proof for the prosecutor. They justify that by arguing that people organizing and conspiring to commit crime are much more dangerous than a lone criminal. For a conspiracy charge you don't have to have made any sort of actual attempt, only formed an agreement to commit a crime with one or more persons.
You are thinking of "attempted XXX". As I said, to get you for that you have to actually make an attempt at committing the crime you're accused of.
-FF
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12931131 - 07/21/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
Just to reiterate... You can't have a conspiracy unless there are two or more people involved. Unless you have multiple personalities you can't conspire with yourself. Even then it doesn't meet the legal definition.
a second conspirator need not be known but can and often is assumed, in the case of drugs if you're set up to grow 1000 plants it's assumed that they are not for personal use and the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
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Freedom
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12931233 - 07/21/10 04:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I knew X who gave Y a pound of pot to pay off a debt.
Unknown to X, Y was part of the cartoon network in NY. When the cartoon network was busted, X ratted on Y, Y was charged with 'conspiracy to distribute more than 1000 lbs'. X's lawyer said that there was nothing X could do to fight the charges, even though they were false. In order to get a plea deal X committed perjury and admitted guilt to the conspiracy charge.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12933921 - 07/22/10 03:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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> In order to get a plea deal X committed perjury and admitted guilt to the conspiracy charge.
Exactly! I've posted about the danger of this before. They get one dude and pressure him into implicating others in a conspiracy. By the time they get to you they may already have several others willing to testify you were part of a conspiracy. At that point you're fucked. And many people just roll and try to implicate even more people to get their own false charges reduced.
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: a second conspirator need not be known but can and often is assumed, in the case of drugs if you're set up to grow 1000 plants it's assumed that they are not for personal use and the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
I'd love to see some case law. I don't doubt it's happened before, but that's not really how the law works. You can't just assume a conspirator, it has to be proven. Besides proving there was a conspirator they have to prove you agreed to commit a crime with that person + the one act.
They can't just imagine up a future conspirator with which you at some point in the future make an agreement with to commit a crime.
> the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
They can't convict you for future crimes they assume you will commit. In this case you're talking about a future conspirator that may or may not exist combined with a future agreement to commit a crime which you may or may not have made or may make.
That just doesn't float. Besides, with 1,000 plants they don't need a conspiracy charge, they're already 2 steps beyond that. It's not even "attempted", they already have you on manufacturing a controlled substance.
-FF
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t00th
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12935454 - 07/22/10 01:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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mail it, general delivery to where you are moving and pick it up when you get there
SIMPLE
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