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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Jabbawaya]
#12911668 - 07/17/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jabbawaya said: I don't think you can actually revoke permission to search once you give it, and you certainly won't stop them from searching specific areas of your car. Chances are that the mentioned area will get torn up because you're obviously hiding something and you already voluntarily waived your 4th amendment rights .
You can revoke permission to search at any time, as long as they haven't found any probable cause yet.
There is case law where people got tired of the cops searching, told them to stop, then the cops didn't, found something, and the person was able to suppress the evidence because he revoked his consent to search before they found something illegal.
Never consent to a search. But if you fuck up and do consent to a search, don't just stand there. Change your mind as soon as possible and let the cops know that they can no longer search.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#12912118 - 07/17/10 03:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's pretty hard to prove exactly when consent was given and revoked. It will almost certainly come down to a lot of legal wrangling and a big headache for your lawyer.
-FF
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12912148 - 07/17/10 03:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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If your doing things that have you seriously concerned about this you could instal video cameras in the car and turn them on if pulled over.
but for a road trip it seems unnecessary. I moved across country, and spent three months doing it and had my box under a bunch of stuff in the car. There was never probable cause and I wasn't worried about it.
Edited by Freedom (07/17/10 03:41 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12913016 - 07/17/10 07:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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fastfred said:
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Put it in an envelope with stamps and when the policia find it they'll charge you with conspiracy to mail a controlled substance, a federal crime.
Nope. You can't have a conspiracy unless there's multiple people involved. They can't get you with attempted since you didn't actually make an attempt, i.e. actually try to mail it.
that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Freedom]
#12913029 - 07/17/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Freedom said: If your doing things that have you seriously concerned about this you could instal video cameras in the car and turn them on if pulled over.
cops already have video and audio recording, discovery produces the footage
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12922887 - 07/20/10 04:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
Just to reiterate... You can't have a conspiracy unless there are two or more people involved. Unless you have multiple personalities you can't conspire with yourself. Even then it doesn't meet the legal definition.
Conspiracy is a much lower burden of proof for the prosecutor. They justify that by arguing that people organizing and conspiring to commit crime are much more dangerous than a lone criminal. For a conspiracy charge you don't have to have made any sort of actual attempt, only formed an agreement to commit a crime with one or more persons.
You are thinking of "attempted XXX". As I said, to get you for that you have to actually make an attempt at committing the crime you're accused of.
-FF
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12931131 - 07/21/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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fastfred said:
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that's false in the legal sense as many individuals are charged with conspiracy, drugs and explosives are the first to come to mind
Just to reiterate... You can't have a conspiracy unless there are two or more people involved. Unless you have multiple personalities you can't conspire with yourself. Even then it doesn't meet the legal definition.
a second conspirator need not be known but can and often is assumed, in the case of drugs if you're set up to grow 1000 plants it's assumed that they are not for personal use and the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12931233 - 07/21/10 04:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I knew X who gave Y a pound of pot to pay off a debt.
Unknown to X, Y was part of the cartoon network in NY. When the cartoon network was busted, X ratted on Y, Y was charged with 'conspiracy to distribute more than 1000 lbs'. X's lawyer said that there was nothing X could do to fight the charges, even though they were false. In order to get a plea deal X committed perjury and admitted guilt to the conspiracy charge.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#12933921 - 07/22/10 03:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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> In order to get a plea deal X committed perjury and admitted guilt to the conspiracy charge.
Exactly! I've posted about the danger of this before. They get one dude and pressure him into implicating others in a conspiracy. By the time they get to you they may already have several others willing to testify you were part of a conspiracy. At that point you're fucked. And many people just roll and try to implicate even more people to get their own false charges reduced.
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: a second conspirator need not be known but can and often is assumed, in the case of drugs if you're set up to grow 1000 plants it's assumed that they are not for personal use and the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
I'd love to see some case law. I don't doubt it's happened before, but that's not really how the law works. You can't just assume a conspirator, it has to be proven. Besides proving there was a conspirator they have to prove you agreed to commit a crime with that person + the one act.
They can't just imagine up a future conspirator with which you at some point in the future make an agreement with to commit a crime.
> the co-conspirator to whom they'd be delivered would be assumed
They can't convict you for future crimes they assume you will commit. In this case you're talking about a future conspirator that may or may not exist combined with a future agreement to commit a crime which you may or may not have made or may make.
That just doesn't float. Besides, with 1,000 plants they don't need a conspiracy charge, they're already 2 steps beyond that. It's not even "attempted", they already have you on manufacturing a controlled substance.
-FF
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t00th
something terrible

Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 3,946
Loc: the dirty dirty
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Re: Can police open sealed mail during a car search? [Re: fastfred]
#12935454 - 07/22/10 01:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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mail it, general delivery to where you are moving and pick it up when you get there
SIMPLE
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