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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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 Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not..  [Re: GazzBut]
#1294829 - 02/09/03 09:50 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions.
That line is why I asked you to not limit it to carbon emissions. The carbon emissons are not being questioned. If you had said in your post that the US is the largest carbon emitter in the world I would not have questioned you, and possibly would have said yes, followed by China which is expected to become the largest in several years.
Saying the largest polluter is the US doesn't seem correct if all forms of pollution are included. THAT is what I asked.
Now.... back up your statement or modify it. Doesn't matter to me what you choose.
If you're right, I'd like to know.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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 GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1294838 - 02/09/03 10:03 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'll modify my posistion then 
Still a pretty poor show though wouldnt you agree?
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Always Smi2le
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: GazzBut]
#1294846 - 02/09/03 10:09 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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In an ideal world, there would be no pollution. We are not there yet. The carbon emissions are the result of the US being what it is. A large prospourous country with a great land mass. As a result we have more cars, trucks, planes and powerplants. With this unfortunately, comes carbon emissions. This will change in time.
I personally am more concerned by chemical pollution. Carbon will go away as we learn better methods of pollution control. Chemical pollution is a far more serious problem as some chemicals just don't go away or take too long to measure.
Thanks for not sticking to an undefendable position. That's more than many here do.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1294850 - 02/09/03 10:14 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you agree the process to more sustainable energy/ industrial methods is being slowed by those with a financial interest in the old forms of energy and production? Obviously, I dont mean only in the US. It happens the world over IMO.
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Always Smi2le
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G a n j a
Pictish and proud
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 7,860
Loc: Zone ate
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: GazzBut]
#1294900 - 02/09/03 11:18 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well america is putting a lot into hydrogen fuel cells,but i think this is just in case there oil supplys from under the sand become radio active 
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er
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MushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: G a n j a]
#1295092 - 02/10/03 02:34 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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It seems that some people never heard about the dangers of overconsumption.
Now, this doesn't only touch Americans, true.
But, the American life style is comparable to the life style of a pig.
From http://www.newdream.org/thedream/index.html
"America consumes 40% of the world's gasoline and more paper, steel, aluminum, energy, water, and meat per capita than any other society on the planet.
The average American produces twice as much garbage as the average European.
Recent scientific estimates indicate that at least four additional planets would be needed if each of the planet's 6 billion inhabitants consumed at the level of the average American. "
I don't know about any other planets that look like Earth in our solar system.
From that website again
"The "more is better" approach to life widens the growing gap between the "haves" and "have-nots." Globally, the 20 percent of the world's people in the highest-income countries account for 86 percent of the total private consumption expenditures, the poorest 20 percent a minuscule 1.3 percent. Conspicuous consumption is especially debilitating for low-income families in a culture that measures self-worth on these terms."
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1295235 - 02/10/03 03:35 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I personally am more concerned by chemical pollution
And american companies arn't the biggest chemical polluters in the world? Dow chemical ring any bells?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: Xlea321]
#1295740 - 02/10/03 06:32 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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On the subject of chemicals I saw a really good documentary on agent orange the other day. It's going to remain in the vietnam soil for another 400-500 years, and children will continue being born with severe defects for many generations to come. On another anti-american note, there are tons of land mines in vietnam, and the US army won't explain how to dissassemble them because they are still making and using the same kind today. Shitty buzz eh?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: GazzBut]
#1296205 - 02/10/03 09:26 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you agree the process to more sustainable energy/ industrial methods is being slowed by those with a financial interest in the old forms of energy and production?
I believe some are happy with the current system, and some are looking for better ways but the technology is too insufficiently developed to be the complete answer.
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Edit: just found this, it seems not everyone agrees the US has the highest carbon emissions...
Rank Country Tons of Carbon per person
1 Qatar 20.05
2 United Arab Emirates 10.36
3 Kuwait 8.69
4 Guam 7.76
5 Bahrain 7.66
6 Singapore 7.04
7 United States 6.04
8 Luxembourg 5.69
9 Brunei 5.28
10 Australia 5.19
http://www.aneki.com/polluted.html
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/10/03 09:35 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: Xlea321]
#1296227 - 02/10/03 09:31 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
And american companies arn't the biggest chemical polluters in the world?
No Alpo, I don't believe they are.
The former USSR, the current Russia stands out in my mind.
Poland, and many other "eastern block" countries are next. And it wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese are third.
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Edit: from the same site as above.... cleanest countries.......
Rank Country
1 Finland
2 Norway
3 Canada
4 Sweden
5 Switzerland
6 New Zealand
7 Australia
8 Austria
9 Iceland
10 Denmark
11 United States
12 Netherlands
13 France
14 Uruguay
15 Germany
16 United Kingdom
17 Ireland
18 Slovak Republic
19 Argentina
20 Chad
http://www.aneki.com/cleanest.html
I'm not familiar with this site so I have no idea how accurate the list is.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/10/03 09:43 AM)
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1296273 - 02/10/03 09:45 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are quite a number of American owned companies in countries throughout the world who are huge contributors to chemical pollution. Hello Monsanto 
Also America produces more than 20 times the amount of hazardous waste of it's nearest competitor, Germany.("Stupid White Men", Michael Moore)
Let's also spare a thought for the monetary waste of the US. How about assing the "Star Wars" project and giving the planet clean drinking water.
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1296283 - 02/10/03 09:47 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Having given this a little thought from an environmental angle, its not really important whether the US are No #1 in the polluting stakes. The fact that they are definitely near the top is the problem. With all the resources at their disposal they could be leading the way in cleaner energies etc and providing an example to other countries but they most definitely are not doing that!
The list is interesting though I am a little surprised China dont make the top ten. The rest of the countries arent really comparable to the US either are they?They are all small countries with weak economies in comparison to the US.
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Always Smi2le
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1296292 - 02/10/03 09:48 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Poland
Nah luv. I'd need more evidence before i could take this seriously. Big american companies like Dow and Dupont dwarf anything being done in Poland. Same thing with russia and china. Dow recently merged with the nightmarish union carbide who'se chemical pollution has killed more indians than Custer.
Cleanest countries isn't really relevant. American companies usually prefer dumping their toxic shit in third world places where they can buy off governments.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: Xlea321]
#1296377 - 02/10/03 10:16 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Alpo, someday you'll realize the the US isn't the worst place on the planet. I doubt you'll admit it though because then you'd have to realize all that hate is for nothing.
I've been searching for a list but am having trouble finding one. I am currently on the W.H.O. site and doing a search for "most polluted countries" brings many results but no mention of the US.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: MushyMay]
#1296382 - 02/10/03 10:17 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also America produces more than 20 times the amount of hazardous waste of it's nearest competitor, Germany.("
Since Moore has been shown to "slant" the facts to make a point, can you provide another source for that figure?
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: GazzBut]
#1296393 - 02/10/03 10:20 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well change won't happen overnight. But it will happen. (IMO)
I was surprised by China's absence from the list as well.
Quote:
The rest of the countries arent really comparable to the US either are they?
The ranking is by amount per person, so yes, it's a valid comparison.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: GazzBut]
#1296437 - 02/10/03 10:36 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Right on.
The US is home to more millionaires and billionaires than any other country. They seem quite happy to show off the fact that they are the most powerful nation in the world. It would be nice if they decided to become the smartest nation in the world. Maybe they could even use some of the money they waste on the military on making the world a better place for everybody to live. You know, even setting a good example for the rest of the world would be nice. Practice what they preach.
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1296446 - 02/10/03 10:40 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I knew someone would pick on Moore as a reference. That's why I mentioned it. Sorry luv, I don't have another reference. It's obvious that Moore tends to embelish the truth, but even if he does, he brings up some serious issues about the state of the states.
Any reference I bring up will be rebutted by someone who doesn't agree.
What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: MushyMay]
#1296458 - 02/10/03 10:57 AM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's obvious that Moore tends to embelish the truth
Then why use figures provided by someone you know to be less than honest?
Quote:
Any reference I bring up will be rebutted by someone who doesn't agree.
Still, if you're going to post a stat as fact, they should be reliable. And many make for interesting reading.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Iraq.. really a threat? maybe not.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1296760 - 02/10/03 12:35 PM (21 years, 11 months ago) |
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I didn't intend for that statistic to be taken as gospel. I let known the source so anyone who didn't agree would know where it came from. Any statistic is just that, a statistic, and most "reliable" sources can be disputed. There's always someone who will say "well I wasn't in that survey" or "I've never heard of (Moore, Chomsky, etc.)"
Moore might be regarded as less than honest but at least I cited my source. I'm not just making up information. People like to avoid issues by questioning information sources as if there is some ultimate truth that will prove or disprove a point beyond doubt. I think that quite often people get caught up in facts and figures and end up arguing about them rather than the topic of conversation. I don't profess to be right all the time and I thought that the Moore statistic (however fallible) was "interesting reading" and appropriate to the topic.
Last point, I am glad that there are people like you out there who can hold a conversation and use rational arguements rather than succumbing to personal attacks. 
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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