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Offlinehongomon
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If Satan has free will and a brain
    #1286521 - 02/06/03 07:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hello, I am here to bash with a fundamentalist. Just kidding, sort of. But I do have a question that I've had since my more religious days.

If Satan is a sentient being, as some believe, he must surely be aware of the purpose of our mortal existence--as a testing ground--and also of his own role as tempter. So why, then, if he is really so set on foiling God's plan, doesn't he just stop being tempter, and even turn it the other way and encourage us to be good? Wouldn't that mess up the Great Plan, and so be the vilest, most spiteful thing he could do to God?

By the way, I no longer try to be a believer, I'm an agnostic leaning atheisticish, but I still think about this stuff now and then. It's all very fascinating.

Thanks,
hongomon


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Offlineminusrestraint
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1286557 - 02/06/03 08:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

well, technically, if the devil was originally an angel who fell from heaven, he has no choice. humans have free will, but god's more angelic and demonic creations dont. angels dont have a choice, they have to do gods bidding. likewise satan is stuck in his role for eternity. he might understand that if he stoped playing the tempter he would outdo god, but he just cant do it. he doesnt have the ability to make that choice.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: minusrestraint]
    #1286580 - 02/06/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That's interesting, thanks.  Was it also God's will that as an angel he rebel?  I see a lot of similarities to the case of Judas Iscariat, who we would have to assume did exercise free will.

By the way, I don't want this to become a free will/determinism debate.  So all you determinists, START YER OWN BLEDDY THREAD.  :grin: 


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: minusrestraint]
    #1286610 - 02/06/03 08:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I suppose you know this because you know God and you know Satan.

I figure that people think they know these things due to the writings they have read. I have no doubt in my mind that these writings have changed since their inception.

When it comes down to it all I think all we have are opinions on an idea that started a long time ago and has changed from its original form.

As far as the original question goes...I root for Satan according to the story I am aware of. It is Satan who tought us to doubt. With out doubt we would be nothing but machines doing the will of God...happy machines though.

I think our current role it to find out why we would be happy machines.

Joshua


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1286651 - 02/06/03 08:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

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Offlinehongomon
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: World Spirit]
    #1286686 - 02/06/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think that's a good position for a believer to have. I still hold on to a philosophical concept of both God and Devil.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1286688 - 02/06/03 08:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: World Spirit]
    #1286721 - 02/06/03 08:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I would agree. I think they are concepts for us to dwell. They are natural ramifications of the ability to conceptualize. Humans have the desire to personify ideas in an effort to associate w/ the idea. God and the Devil are mere personifications of right and wrong, good and evil, up and down.

I know your reply was not directed toward me.

Joshua


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: Joshua]
    #1286751 - 02/06/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

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Offlinehongomon
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: World Spirit]
    #1286777 - 02/06/03 09:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, what Joshua said. I may have rejected the whole 'God' idea a long time ago if it didn't serve as such a potent metaphor.

That and my desire to worship something.


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1287275 - 02/07/03 04:28 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

In the realms of the Eternal ie. heaven, a decision made once is made for all time and forever.  Therefore, that which was good (Lucifer), having turned once to evil (becoming Satan) shall remain evil until the cycle is complete.  This is why there is no redemption for the Devil, but plenty of sympathy.

He had just enough free will to say "well damnit!  I wanna be God!" and that was enough to cause the split between him and the gGodhead.  It's a classic duality.  So goes the story, anyway.

Down here on the more variable planes however, WE have constant choice of duality.  Perhaps the Devil's jealous of that. 

I dunno, though, we don't talk a lot, me and him.  He's got a real fundamentalist sorta personality (like a "true Christian" or, say, a "scientific rationalist") that really starts to grate after a while and then it's "jeez, get behind me Satan!  You're so BORING!"

:smile:


the Landotter 


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: World Spirit]
    #1287280 - 02/07/03 04:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I no longer am hung up on the cast of the movie. Life goes on. God remains Ruler of the Universe. 




Oooh!  I like that!  I really like that!  :ooo:

Neat!  :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1287305 - 02/07/03 04:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i don't think that there is a force of evil. what satan means to me is root of temptation to do things which are wrong and cause suffering. satan is the ego.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1288794 - 02/07/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I don't beleive in satan either.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: hongomon]
    #1288850 - 02/07/03 02:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If God is all powerful, then there couldn't be a Satan.

How could God want something, and then not get it?



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Anonymous

Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: Learyfan]
    #1288862 - 02/07/03 02:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

No arguing with church doctrine! If you question us like that again we'll have you excommunicated!








:wink: 


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: If Satan has free will and a brain [Re: Learyfan]
    #1289075 - 02/07/03 03:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

LearyFan...

Satan was invented as an opposite to God. When little kids say "mommy why did God let dad get tourtured, murdered, and decapitated in that dark alley before I was born?" then mommy can simply say "It was Satan.... God wouldn't have done that."

rofl man I can't believe religion is still so prominent..


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