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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Sustainable gourmet 'workflow'
    #12852739 - 07/05/10 05:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hey folks this is more a question of process than anything.  I would love to be able to be drowning in gourmet shrooms, but considering the work involved I would be happy with a steady supply.  The thing is the incubation time on most wood loving gourmets seems so long you really need to plan ahead.  So here's my question: does anyone else grow just for personal culinary use and can you suggest a sustainable process?  For instance with shiitakes you can't just take spore prints to continue the process so is it common to clone the fruit and continue the line or continue from first generation culture via slant or distilled water or whatever?

Right now my mycological lifecycle looks like: [source] > agar > grain > enriched sawdust bags.  So does anyone have any advice for the long term cycle of wood loving gourmets?  Do you keep an agar plate going for knocking up new grain jars?  Then just transfer to a new plate once it gets old?  At this point I don't really want to tangle with LC.  I've done it a little bit but had more problems than anything.  I think I am able to keep cultures stored long term in distilled water so I'm more wondering about the day-to-day continuation of a grow.  If I want to keep in the gourmet shrooms do I need to be knocking up sawdust bags every other day?  Or can I do it once a week?

Thanks!

PS I'm not including oysters here.  I have already managed to drown myself in oysters which is awesome.  But I'm aiming at the wood lovers at this point.

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #12852832 - 07/05/10 05:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You need to set up a culture lab for dish work and make a few dishes of everything for spawning. If you spawn every two weeks and the next year opposite those two weeks - cyclical spawning on whatever cycle for your desired volume.


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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #12852934 - 07/05/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I got my original shiitake 75 strain back in 2001 and have been using it ever since.  You open the culture slant once per year to make fresh slants, but always save the original.  When you need mycelium, you open the oldest(youngest cell lines) slant and transfer it to petri dishes, and then to grains to grow.  I now have 17 commercial shiitake strains, but treat them all as described above.  You really don't want to open your slants more than once or twice per year.  Use refrigerated petri dishes during the interim.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: curenado]
    #12852962 - 07/05/10 06:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"
Quote:

curenado said:
You need to set up a culture lab for dish work and make a few dishes of everything for spawning.




You mean an environment where you can do plates for whatever cultures you want to spawn?  I am already able to isolate clean cultures for whatever strain I want so far.  Don't get me wrong it's obscenely low-tech but has a high enough success rate that I've been able to go from wild isolate though enriched sawdust without contams.

"
Quote:

curenado said:
If you spawn every two weeks and the next year opposite those two weeks.




So assuming I'm able to keep X gourmet woodlover cultures going on plates I would want to go to spawn every other week.  But plates have a mind of their own.  So when they finish the area I usually throw them in the fridge...then grab wedges for grain jars as needed.  Is that the normal process or do you manage to keep "fresh" plates ready for when you need to knock up grain jars.  I just seem to keep accumulating plates in my refrigerator and from what I read that doesn't seem the norm.  Most folks don't seem to keep plates around very long.

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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12852989 - 07/05/10 06:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I got my original shiitake 75 strain back in 2001 and have been using it ever since.  You open the culture slant once per year to make fresh slants, but always save the original.  When you need mycelium, you open the oldest(youngest cell lines) slant and transfer it to petri dishes, and then to grains to grow.  I now have 17 commercial shiitake strains, but treat them all as described above.  You really don't want to open your slants more than once or twice per year.  Use refrigerated petri dishes during the interim.
RR




OK that makes sense.  So for 'medium term' use you use refrigerated plates?  So if I'm inoculating a grain jar do I need to let the whole dish warm up over night?  Recently I've been taking a cold plate from the fridge and using a wedge from there to knock up a grain jar.  But guides I've seen have said to let things warm up.  It seems like letting the whole plate warm up would be harder on the plate in general than letting the bit of wedge warm up.

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Offlinepunkin
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #12854815 - 07/06/10 01:33 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I know you said you weren't interested in LC and i know i'm only new to this.

You asked though, and i have a continous supply of my Kings so far. With enough to sell to my mates and to give away to my good mates to cover my ongoing (if not my initial) costs.

I do agar dish to grain and to LC. I do LC to grain and if the LC is then proven i do grain to grain for one transfer from that LC.

So if i noc three  quart grain jars from the lc, i'll then noc 15 or twenty jars/bags from the lc inoculated grain. At the same time i'll inoculate a couple more grain jars from my proven LC.

Then i'll do that second grain to substrate and the new lc grain to grain jars again.

This is a three week or four week cycle and it's working just good so far, in fact i've started expanding my species list with more types while shrinking the Kings a little. Otherwise you'd end up drowning in em.

This way i'm only using my initial plate the once, and get a cahnce to put it away as slants ect.

I found that my first LC from a shop bought culture infected, but other than that...fingers crossed:laugh:



From a complete newb so take it as you will, but it's working for me:thumbup::cool:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #12855294 - 07/06/10 06:55 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MonkeyKnifeFight said:
Recently I've been taking a cold plate from the fridge and using a wedge from there to knock up a grain jar.  But guides I've seen have said to let things warm up.  It seems like letting the whole plate warm up would be harder on the plate in general than letting the bit of wedge warm up.




There's no need to bring the whole culture out of stasis.  The wedge you transfer will warm up and start growing again in the grain jar.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12855585 - 07/06/10 09:18 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps you could make a number of plates from an f1 mother petri, which was spawned from a slant. Use the smallest bit to inoculate,and wait for the leap off from the innoc. when they are established but far from captured,  cool em down. When you are ready to work, revive and grow out the plate, the height of which results in transfer to your G1.

I see the advantage of this as framed by the question "what was the myc doing at the time it moved into a new environ?" I believe that myc in forward motion is going to be more aggressive conquering a sub, culminating in a better flush. Simply more embodied energy goes towards what we want, which is a good crop

Mycoelf


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Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:

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OfflineeVenom
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12858899 - 07/06/10 08:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I got my original shiitake 75 strain back in 2001 and have been using it ever since.  You open the culture slant once per year to make fresh slants, but always save the original.  When you need mycelium, you open the oldest(youngest cell lines) slant and transfer it to petri dishes, and then to grains to grow.  I now have 17 commercial shiitake strains, but treat them all as described above.  You really don't want to open your slants more than once or twice per year.  Use refrigerated petri dishes during the interim.
RR





so you still have the original 2001 slant with around 9 chunks removed from it to make the slants to use during the year?

I just want to make sure I understand correctly


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eVenom

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RR

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sustainable gourmet 'workflow' [Re: eVenom]
    #12859229 - 07/06/10 09:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, yes.  I just got it out last year and it was still viable, so I used it to inoculate a petri dish, which in turn inoculated a dozen or so fresh master culture slants.  The original slant was labeled P3 from aloha medicinals, so counting the petri dish in the middle, I labeled all the new slants P5.

This was one of the 75mm X 250mm slants that aloha sends cultures in with a hardwood stick inserted.  You won't get 9 years from a smaller slant.  It also benefited from being opened a few times over the years, allowing fresh filtered air to enter.

However, what I meant by 'have been using it ever since' is that I've been using dishes and slants from that original culture ever since.  Some are already at P11, but still perform as well as the original.  Considering you can take a sliver of mycelium from a slant and grow enough grain spawn to fill a tractor trailer in 8 weeks or so, 11 petri dish transfers hardly has exercised the culture at all.  I also only allow the cultures to grow to about the size of a US quarter before making the next transfer, so that's not too many cell divisions.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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