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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Activated Carbon
    #12823681 - 06/29/10 02:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Due the the properties activated carbon has, do any of you think it would be useful as an additive to adsorb waste products produced by the mycelium?

I'm going to try this out, but I thought I would get some opinions first


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12851674 - 07/05/10 12:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the question is why would you want to absorb the waste, why not just let it drain away?


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: solumvita]
    #12851816 - 07/05/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The waste generated by spawn still in jars, you don't really drain spawn... I should have clarified though

My logic is that waste, by virtue of the fact that it is waste is not usable/beneficial to the organism that produced it, which is why it's waste. Therefore, if it is not beneficial, adsorbing it would impede the mycelium's growth to a lesser degree. If it is just not usable, the worst you've done is just wasted some activated carbon...


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12851873 - 07/05/10 01:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That activated carbon will absorb and soak up water & nutrients before it will absorb any type of waste unless your applying it dry onto/into the substrate/surface your thinking about.

You'd probably be interested in its effects in regards to gardening right now...then derive perhaps a new method from that realm back into Mycology.


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12852433 - 07/05/10 03:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Agar with activated carbon doesn't suffer from the addition, in fact, in more cases than not it benefits. Also, I doubt the activated carbon is going to absorb much water or nutrient. Nutrients are water soluble, however carbon is insoluble in water--meaning there should be no mixing of the two...

also... "Activated carbon is used for adsorption of organic substances and non-polar adsorbates and it is also usually used for waste gas (and waste water) treatment."

First and foremost, water and just about all of its solutes are polar. Therefore, the carbon should not adsorb them, instead only non-polar molecules which would probably more deleterious to the mycelium's health on average compared to polar molecules. I say that because mycelium is water-based like all other life, and therefore would be using more polar substances than non-polar.

Limiting nutrients are not going to be organic, they'll be inorganic like calcium and sulfur. Anything needed that's organic there will be plenty of, especially with grains.


My thoughts anyways...


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12853492 - 07/05/10 08:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I do believe your right. I stand corrected.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12853775 - 07/05/10 09:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What kind of 'waste' are you referring to?  Excess 'metabolites' don't begin to show up until long after full colonization when the grains should have been spawned anyway.
RR


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12859139 - 07/06/10 09:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Dunno, I just assumed they had to produce wastes of some kind... :shrug:


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OfflineM8M
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12860535 - 07/07/10 04:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheManWithTheHat said:
Agar with activated carbon doesn't suffer from the addition, in fact, in more cases than not it benefits. Also, I doubt the activated carbon is going to absorb much water or nutrient. Nutrients are water soluble, however carbon is insoluble in water--meaning there should be no mixing of the two...

also... "Activated carbon is used for adsorption of organic substances and non-polar adsorbates and it is also usually used for waste gas (and waste water) treatment."

First and foremost, water and just about all of its solutes are polar. Therefore, the carbon should not adsorb them, instead only non-polar molecules which would probably more deleterious to the mycelium's health on average compared to polar molecules. I say that because mycelium is water-based like all other life, and therefore would be using more polar substances than non-polar.

Limiting nutrients are not going to be organic, they'll be inorganic like calcium and sulfur. Anything needed that's organic there will be plenty of, especially with grains.


My thoughts anyways...




I remember reading some scientific studies regarding the use of activated charcoal in liquid cultures and agar to inhibit/kill bacterial contaminants.  It was concerning the far infrared radiation that is emitted by charcoal as being responsible for the action on the contaminants.  Try googling  "Far-infrared irradiation effect on  bacteria"


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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12860827 - 07/07/10 07:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hay all. I remember some old posts about putting activated carbon to casing mixture,  also to liquid cultures and  agar.
If my memory serves me correctly the posts about putting it in casing mixes to simulate bacteria which stimulates primordia growth were attributed to the late great  Agar.
And also to monstermitch who said he put it in his agar and liquid cultures for its anti-bacterial properties.
I  cant remember if it was worthwhile.  But I do have a bag of activated charcoal. I never got around to trying it. :shrug:


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: UnderNose]
    #12862014 - 07/07/10 01:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm about to start some spawn, one jar which has powdered activated charcoal mixed in. Will post results...


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12919622 - 07/19/10 01:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Theres another thread by agar from a while back on the main page here of Advanced...a new post on it has all sorts of info on activated charcoal in mushroom substrates, check it out.


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Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12919828 - 07/19/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

MMrmrmrmmm
Spawn - WBS
The jar on the far right was mixed with 3 tsp of powdered activated carbon before sterilization. All the jars were then inoculated with 1 mL of spore solution.


Not a whole ton of evidence, but anecdotally, it appears as if the activated carbon is resulting in a faster spawn run. The mycelium also appears to be more rhizomorphic.



Standard jar with most colonization from same batch vs. Activated carbon jar


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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12922418 - 07/20/10 12:37 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

They are some impressive preliminary results.:thumbup:

Would be nice to see the increased yield that has been written about.

I found that old post by agar, +3 years ago.
Anyone use activated charcoal in there casing mix?

There is a new interesting link to this in there.

Quote:

Evaluating the addition of activated carbon to heat-treated mushroom casing for grain-based and compost-based substrates.

Mark A. Becharaa, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author, P.H. Heinemanna, P.N. Walkera, A. Demircia and C.P. Romaineb


Department of Agricultural and Biological Engineering, 249 Agricultural Engineering Building, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA

Department of Plant Pathology, 211 Buckhout Laboratory, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA
Received 26 January 2007;
revised 16 May 2008;
accepted 22 December 2008.
Available online 10 May 2009.


Abstract

Two substrates, a non-composted grain spawn substrate and a traditional composted substrate, each covered with peat-based casing that contained varying amounts of activated carbon (AC) and each receiving different heat-treatment durations, were tested for Agaricus bisporus mushroom production. The amounts of AC were 0, 5, 10, 15, and 20% v/v, and the heat treatments were 0, 60, and 180 min at 121 °C and 103.4 kPa. Overall, the addition of AC up to 10–15% of casing for a grain spawn substrate increased mushroom yield. However, the addition of AC to the casing for compost substrates had no significant effect on yield, whereas heat-treating the casing increased yield. The onset of fruiting was retarded in grain spawn treatments not receiving AC with heat-treatment durations of 60 and 180 min, whereas this effect was not as apparent for the compost substrates. On average, mushroom yield was greater for the grain spawn substrate (366 g) than for compost substrate (287 g). For grain spawn substrate, the results show that the addition of AC ranging from 5% to 10% was adequate for maximum mushroom production.



 

Looks like there is a lot of charcoal posts, for example all the related posts at the bottom of this page.
Just hasn't caught on as far as I know, I could have been doing it all this time.:nonono:


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Edited by UnderNose (07/20/10 12:40 AM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: UnderNose]
    #12923368 - 07/20/10 08:46 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yep thats the one I was refering to, just didnt have time to link it.

Interesting stuff I must say..I might just try this out...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12971575 - 07/29/10 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Activated carbon spawn on the far left:


Regular spawn (inoc'd 7/05) vs. Activated carbon spawn (inoc'd 7/09--4 days younger):

(The jar on the left is 4 days older, and started from an LC and is barely 1 to 2 days ahead of the activated carbon jar--which was started from spores)


Edited by TheManWithTheHat (07/31/10 06:58 PM)


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12982256 - 07/31/10 06:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Regular WBS are the three jars on the left. The jar on the far right is the jar that had 3 tsp of activated carbon added to it which is now 100% colonized. The activated carbon appears to have sped up the spawn run. :wink:

Awwwwww yeaaaaa
:themoreyouknow:


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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12985293 - 08/01/10 01:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I know in relation to aquatics, carbon can't distinguish good and bad on what it pulls out, but I know many people running it on their reef tanks anyway.  Glad to see you gave it a proper try anyway, good luck!


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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #12988718 - 08/02/10 01:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well I know what my new additive is:wink:


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Re: Activated Carbon [Re: UnderNose]
    #12992970 - 08/02/10 08:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:

:popcorn:


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