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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
The problem with ghosts
    #12802407 - 06/25/10 12:33 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What holds a Ghost to the ground?
Gravity I suppose. But if gravity is pulling them down, why arent they falling through the floor?
Someone might say 'because ghosts (or similar things) don't always pass through objects, they get to chose when to or not'.
This raises two problems:
1)This conlficts with many ghost or spirit depictions where they cannot interact with people through touch, and where they pass through objects.
2)If ghosts are chosing when to not go through walls, how come you never hear of the balancing act that it is for ghosts to maintain on the surface of earth! And the massive risk of falling into the earth if not careful.

Ok so maybe Ghosts arent affected by gravity? Well, sorry but if something is not affected by gravity it will simply propel off into space. The earth is rotating, moving arouhd the sun, which is moving aorund the centre of the milky way. Each place on earth is moving through a lot of space in the universe each second, but we have a sensation of stillness because we cannot sense massive movements of the planet in relation to other galaxies. We just sense the gravity of our own planet.

In conclusion:
Ghosts, or anything purporting to move through walls and be ethereal, MUST be able to control their non-material properties and continually avoid falling through the floor into the earth,
OR
They would fly off into space, unaffected by gravity...


--------------------

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InvisibleJustinTime
Strangerer
Male

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 244
Loc: Germany
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12802723 - 06/25/10 01:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think they would all get sucked into the supermassive blackhole at the center of the galaxy.

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/sciencetech/supermassive-black-hole-milky-way/6671

Where they enter the dimension of the ethereal, which is stacked upon our dimension of the physical, not the dimension of nothingness, but the immaterial. Which i think most scientist would say nothingness.





The red dot is us.

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Offlineauxiliary
Mr.
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Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
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Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: JustinTime]
    #12802916 - 06/25/10 02:08 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe their minds are attatched to gravity. You know, like when you can fly in some dreams, but in other dreams your efforts are a lost cause. Idunno, stoned.


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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: auxiliary]
    #12802942 - 06/25/10 02:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

as far as the gravity argument... how come air doesn't go flying into space? what about pollen, etc?


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12802946 - 06/25/10 02:13 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
What holds a Ghost to the ground?
Gravity I suppose. But if gravity is pulling them down, why arent they falling through the floor?
Someone might say 'because ghosts (or similar things) don't always pass through objects, they get to chose when to or not'.
This raises two problems:
1)This conlficts with many ghost or spirit depictions where they cannot interact with people through touch, and where they pass through objects.
2)If ghosts are chosing when to not go through walls, how come you never hear of the balancing act that it is for ghosts to maintain on the surface of earth! And the massive risk of falling into the earth if not careful.

Ok so maybe Ghosts arent affected by gravity? Well, sorry but if something is not affected by gravity it will simply propel off into space. The earth is rotating, moving arouhd the sun, which is moving aorund the centre of the milky way. Each place on earth is moving through a lot of space in the universe each second, but we have a sensation of stillness because we cannot sense massive movements of the planet in relation to other galaxies. We just sense the gravity of our own planet.

In conclusion:
Ghosts, or anything purporting to move through walls and be ethereal, MUST be able to control their non-material properties and continually avoid falling through the floor into the earth,
OR
They would fly off into space, unaffected by gravity...





It's all done with mirrors.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12802967 - 06/25/10 02:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
as far as the gravity argument... how come air doesn't go flying into space? what about pollen, etc?





Pollen is not effected by gravity (it really is:lol:) because it is magically attracted to our sinus cavity as soon as it floats off a plant.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12803002 - 06/25/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think you can deduce the existence/nonexistence of ghosts purely through logic

especially not the logistics of gravity over something ethereal. How come time itself doesn't go flying into space and get sucked into a massive black hole? even if everything eventually does, it doesn't necessarily prove anything about interactions or whatever taking place here.

plus, what if they are already in space, already sucked through that black hole, and communicate/interact with the world through transdimensional means?

If all things are equal, and parallel dimensions are parallel, they could easily be in space and right here at the same time. Maybe there needs to be something to bridge the gap, kinda like when a person takes drugs and interacts with entities. During OBE's, gravity is something entirely different

maybe they really are trapped between dimensions



I'm not saying I believe in ghosts, I'm just sayin'

I don't think you can deduce the existence/nonexistence of ghosts purely through logic. Especially using gravity as a basis


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12803016 - 06/25/10 02:22 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Light and time can be effected by gravity. :lol: Where you been boy?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Icelander]
    #12803034 - 06/25/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think you are misinterpreting me


light and time are one and the same with gravity. Doin thangs is doin thangs. Where you been?

Why do people here like to assume nobody has ANY common sense? I never intended to even remotely imply that time, light, air, or pollen aren't affected by gravity. I said they aren't getting sucked into space, at least not in the way the OP meant it


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12803247 - 06/25/10 03:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I go off what you say. The fucking words you put down and how you arrange them. If you want someone to think you mean something then you better do a much better job with being clear about it.

Light and time are one and the same with gravity? OK show me how?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12803680 - 06/25/10 04:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

how come air doesn't go flying into space?

Beeeecause it has weight?

/duh


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Diploid]
    #12805378 - 06/25/10 10:46 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Light and time are one and the same with gravity? OK show me how?




dude, come on now. The only thing I meant was that of course all things are connected, because you assumed it had never occurred to me "Light and time can be effected by gravity. :lol: Where you been boy?"



Quote:

I go off what you say. The fucking words you put down and how you arrange them. If you want someone to think you mean something then you better do a much better job with being clear about it.





nevermind the scenery, it's only bleeding
I envy the night, for its absence of light
doin thangs is doin thangs


sharks in these waters :hillbilly:






Quote:

Diploid said:
how come air doesn't go flying into space?

Beeeecause it has weight?

/duh




if you are failing to see that I was not actually asking that question, merely countering the logic of the OP...well, that's what I was actually doin
if you are trying to point out that this question does not contest the logic of the OP, well, i dunno, maybe it doesn't


I just don't see how just because something can travel through a wall would mean that it has to actively control not falling through the earth. I am sure there is plenty of energy that travels through walls yet does not have to actively not-fall through the earth.


the one and only thing I was ever really trying to say in this thread is that I don't think you can use gravity as a means to rationalize the existence or nonexistence of ethereal beings, especially when they could possibly exist in or between alternate realms that we know nothing of, including how gravity works there. Not to mention we really know next to nothing about the properties of "ghosts". Also, just because something can travel through a wall, does not mean it has to struggle to not fall through the earth.


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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OfflineI AM SWIM
doin' thangs
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Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
Loc: Feels Changsta Man
Last seen: 20 hours, 18 minutes
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: the bizzle]
    #12805408 - 06/25/10 10:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i saw a ghost once and nothang held it to the ground, it was floating around doin' thangs and telling me :feelsgoodman: and i told it :feelsgoodman: then it did some magical ghost thangs, it's actually with me right now.

its a feelsgoodman ghost,


problem with ghosts is ppl are afraid of them, and we can all thank hollywood for that,

there are some :feelsbadman: ghosts, but not all of em are feelsbadmans

but it's all good, cuz these ghosts like to get u high, and they do a good job too, they can alter ur reality and make u trip out whenever they feel like it.

they are :awesome:


--------------------

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Offlineblinkybill
outsider


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 246
Loc: Albania Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #12805449 - 06/25/10 11:05 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah lots of stuff we know nothing of could exist in realms we know nothing of, more than we'll ever know.

Quote:

I AM SWIM said:
i saw a ghost once and nothang held it to the ground, it was floating around doin' thangs and telling me :feelsgoodman: and i told it :feelsgoodman: then it did some magical ghost thangs, it's actually with me right now.

its a feelsgoodman ghost,


problem with ghosts is ppl are afraid of them, and we can all thank hollywood for that,

there are some :feelsbadman: ghosts, but not all of em are feelsbadmans

but it's all good, cuz these ghosts like to get u high, and they do a good job too, they can alter ur reality and make u trip out whenever they feel like it.

they are :awesome:



See what I mean?


--------------------
" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."

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OfflineI AM SWIM
doin' thangs
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Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
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Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: blinkybill]
    #12805482 - 06/25/10 11:11 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12805979 - 06/26/10 01:44 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
In conclusion:
Ghosts, or anything purporting to move through walls and be ethereal, MUST be able to control their non-material properties and continually avoid falling through the floor into the earth,
OR
They would fly off into space, unaffected by gravity...


So why can't it be the first one? :confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Poid]
    #12806372 - 06/26/10 04:35 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well how does the damn ghostbuster machine work poid?


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: teknix]
    #12806394 - 06/26/10 04:46 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Magic!  :whoyougonnacall:
                  :thirdeyeani:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDoctor_Dick
Forgiveness
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Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 6,289
Loc: top of the tower
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12806421 - 06/26/10 05:07 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
What holds a Ghost to the ground?
Gravity I suppose. But if gravity is pulling them down, why arent they falling through the floor?
Someone might say 'because ghosts (or similar things) don't always pass through objects, they get to chose when to or not'.
This raises two problems:
1)This conlficts with many ghost or spirit depictions where they cannot interact with people through touch, and where they pass through objects.
2)If ghosts are chosing when to not go through walls, how come you never hear of the balancing act that it is for ghosts to maintain on the surface of earth! And the massive risk of falling into the earth if not careful.

Ok so maybe Ghosts arent affected by gravity? Well, sorry but if something is not affected by gravity it will simply propel off into space. The earth is rotating, moving arouhd the sun, which is moving aorund the centre of the milky way. Each place on earth is moving through a lot of space in the universe each second, but we have a sensation of stillness because we cannot sense massive movements of the planet in relation to other galaxies. We just sense the gravity of our own planet.

In conclusion:
Ghosts, or anything purporting to move through walls and be ethereal, MUST be able to control their non-material properties and continually avoid falling through the floor into the earth,
OR
They would fly off into space, unaffected by gravity...



in conclusion, education and spirits don't mix


--------------------
:minifo:] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God."
-Albert Hofmann

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: The problem with ghosts [Re: Doctor_Dick]
    #12806426 - 06/26/10 05:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Is that a bad thing?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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