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InvisibleGI_Luvmoney
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12814765 - 06/27/10 11:36 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Is CannabisCharlie the same as Rage Boy?

You can see Rage Boy on the left in this picture.



http://www.thereligionofpeace.com



More here: Professional Protester Jihadi style
http://snappedshot.com/archives/964-Professional-Protester,-Jihadi-style.html


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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: despisedicon]
    #12815721 - 06/28/10 02:13 AM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
The Senate vote was 57-41, how did the Republican minority "kill unemployment aid"?.




fucktard dino's.  that's how.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #12816520 - 06/28/10 07:18 AM (10 years, 15 days ago)

> Is CannabisCharlie the same as ...

Please do not flame.  Debate the topic, not the person.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Redstorm]
    #12822321 - 06/29/10 10:51 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Don't worry, the government would not write a bill that would (intentionally or unintentionally) harm you and yours.:sun:

It is the same with the money supply, they are looking out for your best interests when prices by far outpace the growth of wages!

It is to improve your work ethic comrade!:cheers:




Nice bit of rhetoric. Was there a point to your post? I think you could have looked up the law and find the supposed part which makes it illegal to grow your own plants and then return here and post it more quickly than it took you to put together that idiotic drivel.





This is (part of) why it is important to emphasize that the United States is a Republic:

The individual is recognized as a sovereign entity in a republic and as such laws like "Food Safety Bill" or "Patriot Act" would not stand a chance.

Democracies are really a means of abusing sovereign individuals for the betterment of the godless state.

Comprende comrade?


My central point here is that any small child who questions why things are more expensive now than when Daddy was his age is righteously concerned.

Inflation of the money supply confers no real social benefit Murray N. Rothbard.

Such a statement can not rationally be contended with.

Children are concerned about (the effects of) inflation of the money supply because they have not become totally socially conditioned.

Since government allocates resources less efficiently than the individual rampant expansion of government benefits the government (in terms of increases in power & wealth) at the expense of the individuals.

This is why it is incredibly naive for any individual to trust that big government is looking out for his interests.



Edited by Mr.Al (06/29/10 11:15 AM)


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Offlineshubrick
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Mr.Al]
    #12828763 - 06/30/10 03:23 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Since government allocates resources less efficiently than the individual rampant expansion of government benefits the government (in terms of increases in power & wealth) at the expense of the individuals.





Inefficiencies abound in all organized systems.  You make it sound like government is the only wasteful entity.  In some places they are better, in others they are worse, compared to private organizations.  At least with governments you can vote people out of office, assuming no election fraud (eg., diebold). Not so with large corporations.

More importantly, reducing the purpose of government to efficiency is naive because that is not the only goal for which organizations strive.  There are other equally if not more important goals towards which organizations strategically coordinate. Credit default swaps are a prime example of a system operating against the greater good. Safety nets such as fire departments, stop lights, social security and medicare are concrete examples where having to choose between efficiency and safety is a false dichotomy.  You choose the safety net, first, and then do your best to make it as efficient as possible, understanding that PERFECT SHOULD NOT GET IN THE WAY OF THE GOOD.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: shubrick]
    #12833331 - 07/01/10 09:26 AM (10 years, 12 days ago)

There are very particular reasons why businesses are more efficient than government:

1. The threat of bankruptcy: 

Any business that operates through a protracted period in the red is in danger of becoming insolvent.  If the market will not lend it money because it is far too risky there is the moral hazard of a government/central banker bailout of said business.  Bankruptcy for government is a sovereign debt crisis that wreaks the economy of the nation. 

2.  Competition: 

Businesses must strive to produce better goods & services more cheaply and with better customer service otherwise competition will wipe them out.  Some businesses do produce things at or near monopoly level because of economy of scale or other serious market advantages but this does not necessarily harm their customers.   A trip to your local R.M.V. will prove this point.  Often R.M.V. employees are nasty to people because they know that they have no competition.

3.  It is always easier to spend money that belongs to someone else:

Politicians are much like valley girls on a shopping spree with no limit credit cards from Daddy. 


Credit default swaps are not bad or detrimental to the economy as a whole.

Think of it as a market corrective instrument.  Naked credit default swaps specifically function as a means of making an educated bet against an entity that has grossly overextended itself financially.  Credit default swaps force the market correction to occur before the imbalances in the system cause more trouble later!


Governments and their central banker allies rail against credit default swaps and the corrective actions they cause because they expose the phony foundation that the economy is based upon...

I am speaking of course about bubble economics:  Keynesian economics.

Naked credit default swaps are a means the market uses to reallocate resources to burst a bubble caused by an artificial market.  They are not profitable unless said market correction needs to occur!


Social Security and medicare are unsustainable ponzi schemes which are symptomatic of an inflationary monetary policy.  Socialist programs are not the correct medicine for a socialist monetary policy, comrade!

Fire departments are o.k. but have you noticed the undue influence that unions have in them?!?!

Stop lights are o.k. but isn't it ridiculous to sit there and wait in the dead of night when there is no other vehicles around!?!?


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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Mr.Al]
    #12851243 - 07/05/10 12:35 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

Sounds like you are well versed in Friedman.  Good luck to you! :thumbup:


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: shubrick]
    #12851479 - 07/05/10 01:31 PM (10 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Democracies are really a means of abusing sovereign individuals for the betterment of the godless state.




that's why george bush was talking about spreading democracy in the middle east, abusing sovereign individuals for the betterment of a godless state. by the way isn't it hilarious that iraq is an islamic republic, exactly like iran, the difference is of course that there is no ruling theocratic class.

Quote:

nflation of the money supply confers no real social benefit Murray N. Rothbard.

Such a statement can not rationally be contended with.

Children are concerned about (the effects of) inflation of the money supply because they have not become totally socially conditioned.

Since government allocates resources less efficiently than the individual rampant expansion of government benefits the government (in terms of increases in power & wealth) at the expense of the individuals.

This is why it is incredibly naive for any individual to trust that big government is looking out for his interests.




the inflation of money allows lower interests rate for investment which leads to more employment. if the government did not constantly use inflation to keep unemployment low the south would rise again. though it might not just be the south.
Quote:

Businesses must strive to produce better goods & services more cheaply and with better customer service otherwise competition will wipe them out.  Some businesses do produce things at or near monopoly level because of economy of scale or other serious market advantages but this does not necessarily harm their customers.  A trip to your local R.M.V. will prove this point.  Often R.M.V. employees are nasty to people because they know that they have no competition.




how the hell wouldn't a monopoly allow a company to abuse their position to get better profits.
Quote:

3.  It is always easier to spend money that belongs to someone else:

Politicians are much like valley girls on a shopping spree with no limit credit cards from Daddy. 



if you believe in your republic you can vote people out, but you don't yet you want the system to continue. you probably believe stuff like there are a few rotten apples, well i disagree, the basket is rotten and it is a miracle if an apple is not rotten.
Quote:

am speaking of course about bubble economics:  Keynesian economics.



how is keynesian bubble economics, keynesianism want to increase spending during economic crisis to help society get together. keynesianism was abandoned due to the before unforeseen phenomenon of stagflation, which is stagnation and inflation at the same time.
Quote:

Social Security and medicare are unsustainable ponzi schemes which are symptomatic of an inflationary monetary policy.  Socialist programs are not the correct medicine for a socialist monetary policy, comrade!



comrade! what socialist monetary policy are you talking about? do not confuse social-democracy and socialism. how the hell does social security have to do with inflation, if anything inflation keeps the need for social security lower by providing more employment.


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Offlinelibertarian23
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: communeart]
    #12854154 - 07/06/10 12:25 AM (10 years, 7 days ago)

i'm sorry to anyone that has had trouble finding a job...maybe its time to think of relocating to more business, more job friendly places...the trucking industry is usually good and if you dont have a criminal record you could get your hazmat endorsement on a commercial drivers license and get a job most anywhere in the united states--like tomorrow...politicians and new laws will not help you get a job...sadly you would like them to help you but its not helping...everything they are doing will only prolong this downturn further...they can prop the market up but only for so long and then it still needs to heal itself--thus prolonging the crap we have to go thru....those people that think that capitalism has failed have been lied to--true capitalism hasn't been around for a very, very long time.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: communeart]
    #12855283 - 07/06/10 08:47 AM (10 years, 7 days ago)

Actually, in a real free market savings is what allows for a lower interest rate.  That part of why a free market is referred to as being self regulating.  If there is relatively little savings in a free market you would see higher interest rates as a means for lenders to attract capital.  Examining the recent housing boom and bust that has occurred in MANY different countries recently it is easy to see that interest rates were artificially low.  By that I mean that the absurdly low interest rates did not match the reality of the fact that capital was relatively scarce!

A company that is in a monopoly market position because of a market advantage like economy of scale would potentially not be disadvantageous to the buying public.  A hypothetical example would be a company that was the singular earth business that mines the Kuiper belt...  Don't forget that it is the insane profit potential of a monopoly position that attracts competition!


The Keynesian idea of massive government spending and  debt accumulation during an economic downturn is bubble economics precisely.  Prices will adjust throughout the economy and there will be a net loss in economic productivity because government spends wastefully compared to the private sector it is parasitising!


If you are looking for a better remedy I recommend President Harding's strategy which ended a depression in one year by cutting government in half.



As far as socialist monetary policy is concerned I refer you to Karl Marx's Fifth Plank of his Communist Manifesto....

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/527454


Fifth Plank: Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

(The Federal Reserve Bank, 1913- -the system of privately-owned Federal Reserve banks which maintain a monopoly on the valueless debt "money" in circulation.)


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: despisedicon]
    #12855482 - 07/06/10 10:35 AM (10 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
The Senate vote was 57-41, how did the Republican minority "kill unemployment aid"?.





Easy.

Sadly, majority doesn't rule.  Anyone who knows anything about the process knows it takes 60 votes to end a filibuster by the opposing side.  The Dems don't have 60 votes, thus the Republicans who are sworn to make Obama's presidency a failure are allowed to win.  They're sacrificing our health, welfare, and jobs for political gain, or so they assume.  Now, lest the right-wingers jump on my use of the word 'welfare', let's be clear that I'm talking about 'wellness', not a government program to hand money to those too lazy to work that was ended years ago.

Over 8 million jobs have been lost in this depression.  It's going to take a LOT more than a 'stimulus' bill to get those jobs back, and it's going to take a lot more than $12.50/hour to get people to be able to afford to move their families across the country to take those jobs. 

People who are out of work right now are not out of work because they're lazy.  Unless we can 'undo' the damage caused by over a decade of factories, call centers, and engineering/high tek industries leaving the country in search of cheap wages, only to import their products back here to sell, this problem is permanent.  If the American people want to see America strong again, they had damn well better start buying American made products, and local products whenever possible.
RR


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12855589 - 07/06/10 11:21 AM (10 years, 7 days ago)

> Sadly, majority doesn't rule

This is a good thing, not bad.  Majority rule usually ends up with small minorities being unrepresented as their voice is irrelevant.

> ver 8 million jobs have been lost in this depression.  It's going to take a LOT more than a 'stimulus' bill to get those jobs back

I would agree with you here.  Obama's 'spendulus' bill was pointless and has had no real lasting effect towards helping end the problems.  It was designed to pad the pockets of bankers, financial companies, federal/state employees, and unions while ignoring the painful fixes required to end the depression.

> People who are out of work right now are not out of work because they're lazy.

Some are, some aren't.  I know people that are out of work and are not bothering to look for it because they have been getting by on unemployment and their unemployment benefits keep getting extended.

> Unless we can 'undo' the damage caused by over a decade of factories, call centers, and engineering/high tek industries leaving the country in search of cheap wages, only to import their products back here to sell, this problem is permanent.

Again, I agree with you, at least partially.  Outsourcing is certainly a large problem, but it is hard to blame a company for outsourcing when local labor has gotten to be insanely expensive.  Other problems include a focus by investors on short term profits (and the insane bonuses that go with them) rather than the long term stability of a company.  A lot of the problems we face are associated with greed... by management, by labor, by investors, and by bankers.  People have been raised to believe that they deserve much more than they are worth, regardless of where they fit into the pie.  Because of this, coupled with slimy politicians, the country is going bankrupt.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Seuss]
    #12855742 - 07/06/10 12:06 PM (10 years, 7 days ago)

I think you make a good argument.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12855849 - 07/06/10 12:41 PM (10 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Sadly, majority doesn't rule. 




correct, the reason our elected reps voted against the will of their constituents and voted for the health insurance reform bill because
minority obviously rules... oh wait, they had the majority then too


Quote:

They're sacrificing our health, welfare, and jobs for political gain, or so they assume.  Now, lest the right-wingers jump on my use of the word 'welfare', let's be clear that I'm talking about 'wellness', not a government program to hand money to those too lazy to work that was ended years ago.





ended, no... renamed to make it sound more pleasant and politically correct, yes... it's now known as TANF, Temporary Assistance for Needy
Families, only it's not temporary because it's renewed periodically and
it's welfare no matter what you call it

Quote:


Over 8 million jobs have been lost in this depression.  It's going to take a LOT more than a 'stimulus' bill to get those jobs back,




so why is obama trying to push another stimulus bill instead of pulling
jobs out of his ass like he promised, I mean the first one didnt make
the democrats wealthy enough so he needs another to pad his bank account
more for  his retirement or something

and it's going to take a lot more than $12.50/hour to get people to be able to afford to move their families across the country to take those jobs. 

People who are out of work right now are not out of work because they're lazy.  Unless we can 'undo' the damage caused by over a decade of factories, call centers, and engineering/high tek industries leaving the country in search of cheap wages, only to import their products back here to sell, this problem is permanent.  If the American people want to see America strong again, they had damn well better start buying American made products, and local products whenever possible.
RR




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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12876953 - 07/10/10 11:44 AM (10 years, 3 days ago)

There is too much red tape when it comes to starting businesses in America.  The costs to hire new employees is staggering.


Cut payroll taxes, end the healthcare mandate, cut entitlements, cut useless overpaid (and non productive)  government jobs.

Cut the federal government into no more than a quarter of it's present size.

I am all for ending the federal reserve too, but sadly that may not happen until the dollar tanks completely.:frown:


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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Mr.Al]
    #12877328 - 07/10/10 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 days ago)

The whole employer tax reporting thing is a complete fiasco costing the country billions of dollars a year in lost productivity.  The only thing an employer should have to report is the total annual compensation paid to the employee.  Let the employee then file his own fucking taxes.  He still has to do it anyway.

The huge tax code is just an employment program for mediocre accountants.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12877634 - 07/10/10 03:06 PM (10 years, 3 days ago)

Have you ever stopped and considered the idea that many politicians simply hate the private market and thus seek to control and interfere with it's operation?

Central economic planning and banking does not work, nor does it allow the private sector to be productive.

You have legitimate grievances about employer tax obligations.  Why do you continue to support the state's ability to manipulate the economy into ruin?

It didn't work so well in the U.S.S.R.  Why would central economic planning with an increasingly thin veneer of capitalism work indefinitely here?

The failures in our economy are from the state, not the marketplace.  The state is running the economy into the ground!


Edited by Mr.Al (07/10/10 03:07 PM)


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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Mr.Al]
    #12878668 - 07/10/10 06:46 PM (10 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

It didn't work so well in the U.S.S.R.  Why would central economic planning with an increasingly thin veneer of capitalism work indefinitely here?




how did it fail so bad? the point of such a centralized economy is to have no crisis or depression. it also returned to a profit based economy around the 50-60s after stalin's death. most of the good economically speaking times of the soviet union was before the war. russia become a world superpower even if germany and it bore the brunt of the war. it is true it couldn't compete with capitalism economically, but it never wanted to, how can you surpass so easily a system that is already in place which has years of experience behind it, a stable economy so that workers never starve under depressions, a strong education so that there is an emphasis on technology so that it may improve the quality of life and not simply be for profit and fire workers. those are the goals of the soviet system.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: Mr.Al]
    #12879158 - 07/10/10 08:29 PM (10 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Have you ever stopped and considered the idea that many politicians simply hate the private market and thus seek to control and interfere with it's operation?




Yes.  We have one in the White House right now.  We have had many in the Congress since the nation's founding.  Current high profile idiots include Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
Quote:



Central economic planning and banking does not work, nor does it allow the private sector to be productive.




The private sector has flourished quite nicely up until the last go round of government meddling (Fannie Fredie CRA).  Central banking is not the problem.
Quote:



You have legitimate grievances about employer tax obligations.  Why do you continue to support the state's ability to manipulate the economy into ruin?




I don't.  I do not agree with you about just which meddlesome activities are the problem.  You see a demon in the Federal Reserve.  I do not.  In fact, I think you're single-minded obsession with it blinds you to the real problems, none of which will go away if either the Fed is abolished or a gold standard adopted. 
Quote:



It didn't work so well in the U.S.S.R.  Why would central economic planning with an increasingly thin veneer of capitalism work indefinitely here?




Spare me.  Central banking is not communism.  You have some strange notions.
Quote:



The failures in our economy are from the state, not the marketplace.  The state is running the economy into the ground!




Yes it is, but not in the way you purport.  For instance, adopting a gold standard won't eliminate the ability of the morons to suspend essential drilling activity in the Gulf nor will it remove the odious and job killing health care abortion.


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Re: The Banana Republicans giving American workers the shaft by blocking unemployment benefits [Re: communeart]
    #12882552 - 07/11/10 03:29 PM (10 years, 2 days ago)

The Saudis broke the USSR, not the US. Grossly Fluctuating Oil prices (Russia's main export) made central planning fail not any inherent flaws in the strategy or superiority of whatever capitalist philosophies ideas or icons you may wish to credit as such.

Believe it or not capitalism is not pure free-market philosophy as some would like to say. Mercantilism is capitalism as well. Just like Syndicalism and central planning are still both socialism despite being radically different.

What I'd like to see is where exactly is the proof that free market is always better than state run buisness. In canada our state run post system is basically equivalent to the market run one when it comes to delivering packages and it's radically better with mail. Where I live the whole province was serviced by a single crown corporation that installed much of the telephone inferstructure. The company was privatized and the market opened up, now widely diverse market (cell phones, internet, cable, phone) however the company that used to be the state company had outsourced everything but the most core services and hollowed out the corporation while keeping the highest prices in the industry. That's after being privatized. So, it seems like maybe this notion runs counter to what I've observed.

I'm not the only one though, a large body of people studding on the border of psychology and economics, challenge the notions of rational economic man. I've red more than a few Economists who believe in infant industry protection in these modern times and they all have data/experiments or in the case of the later actual case by case historical economic examples.

So please, the next time you want to declare that the free market leads to the best possible outcome for the customer or whatever fucking neo-liberal nonsense you are about to utter along that line, I'm gonna demand some proof.
:picdidnthappen:  :zaphod:


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
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