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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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The case of the deceptive Orangutan
    #12727305 -

I just heard this on NPR. A case of a captive Orangutan that taught himself how to pick the lock to his cage with a piece of wire. He had never seen anyone do this before. Here's the most interesting part, they caught him at it but couldn't figure out what he was using. So they removed every twig, stick, or anything that he might possibly use to get out. The next day he was out and the next. Then a keeper happened to see something shiny in his mouth. He opened the Orangutan's mouth and removed the piece of wire which he had curved around his gums so it would stay hidden from his keepers, they assumed to keep the keeper from taking it away.

What conclusions do you draw from this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727344 -

Icelander said:
What conclusions do you draw from this?


:haha: at all those those people who said other animals can't think? :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727391 -

:awebig:

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727401 -

Houdini was reincarnated as an Orangutan.


And Orangutans are pretty smart. I wonder if the Orangutan had other things confiscated in the past. If so it may have just a habit of hiding things. If not, I think that's really smart to know to hide it.


This is an amazing story about apes from radiolab:

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2010/04/09

I think you'll like it.

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Freedom]
    #12727452 -

Wow, cool story! Thanks for sharing. :tripping:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727459 -

What conclusions do you draw from this?

That humans are animals are humans and anyone who thinks we're somehow special is as stoopid as the Catholics who sentenced Galileo to life in prison for having the balls to show them the Truth that the Earth isn't special or at the center of the universe any more than humans are anything special or created by god but ordinary animals.

Nothing new. Just more evidence of what critical thinkers have been pretty sure of for a long time. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Diploid]
    #12727504 -

:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727535 -

Hey, I'd like to hear from Mr. Mushrooms on this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727548 -

As you wish.  :bow:

Icelander said:
I just heard this on NPR. A case of a captive Orangutan that taught himself how to pick the lock to his cage with a piece of wire. He had never seen anyone do this before. Here's the most interesting part, they caught him at it but couldn't figure out what he was using. So they removed every twig, stick, or anything that he might possibly use to get out. The next day he was out and the next. Then a keeper happened to see something shiny in his mouth. He opened the Orangutan's mouth and removed the piece of wire which he had curved around his gums so it would stay hidden from his keepers, they assumed to keep the keeper from taking it away.

What conclusions do you draw from this?


That gullible materialists will believe anything, even if they have to anthropomorphize.    Assumptions make those who swallow them asses.

Here's a howl, The Pet Sidekick (Psychic):

Quote:
No matter how many commands your dog responds to, no matter how many words Koko can sign, no matter how many words your parrot can mimic, language is human-species specific. We don’t and can’t “know” what animals think. Despite our own linguistic abilities, it’s difficult enough to know what people think.


Courtesy of Committee for Skeptical Inquiry CSICOP


--------------------

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Diploid]
    #12727575 -

Diploid said:
What conclusions do you draw from this?

That humans are animals are humans and anyone who thinks we're somehow special is as stoopid as the Catholics who sentenced Galileo to life in prison for having the balls to show them the Truth that the Earth isn't special or at the center of the universe any more than humans are anything special or created by god but ordinary animals.

Nothing new. Just more evidence of what critical thinkers have been pretty sure of for a long time. :shrug:


Formal logical phallacy: Poisoning the well.


--------------------

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12727642 -

Do you think Orangutans  anthropomorphize towards humans?:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12727648 -

That gullible materialists will believe anything, even if they have to anthropomorphize.

How do you interpret this story? What conclusions do you draw about the animals actions? If you had to guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727706 -

Icelander said:
That gullible materialists will believe anything, even if they have to anthropomorphize.

Then a keeper happened to see something shiny in his mouth. He opened the Orangutan's mouth and removed the piece of wire which he had curved around his gums so it would stay hidden from his keepers, they assumed to keep the keeper from taking it away.

How do you interpret this story? What conclusions do you draw about the animals actions? If you had to guess.


I think the underlined part is an assumption as is the motive behind it.  The italicized part is suspicious.  The keeper happened to see the hidden wire?  Sounds like it wasn't hidden.  What did the keepers think he would do, stick it in a pocket?  There are only two available orifices where he could have stuck it.  Obviously, he chose the less painful one.  Orangutans may not be sentient, but they aren't completely stupid.

I conclude that Orangutans like shiny objects.


--------------------

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727752 -

I remember reading about some apes who wouldn't eat food if it electrically shocked their fellows when they did so. More empathy than some humans for sure. :lol:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727773 -

he can think
just differently than the average poser who probably can't pick a lock


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727780 -

Icelander said:
Do you think Orangutans  anthropomorphize towards humans?:grin:


you mean orangomorphize? :tongue:

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727809 -

Icelander said:
What conclusions do you draw from this?


Animals do animal things...


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12727871 -

This Oranutan opened this door many times  before caught red handed over many days under close scrutiny of the keepers. The keeper said it looked like he had a silver filling in a tooth and that's how he noticed it.

You can find the full story on NPRs website.

Of course we only can make a best guess.

In working with animals much of my life I find I have much in common with them or so it seems and they aren't even primates.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Icelander]
    #12727896 -

Icelander said:
In working with animals much of my life I find I have much in common with them or so it seems and they aren't even primates.


What exactly is "working with animals" it is hard to draw conclusions of what your saying with out a clarification of this work in further detail.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The case of the deceptive Orangutan [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #12727996 -

I worked professionally as a dog trainer. My sister raised quarter horses and I helped out there and I have owned many pets of many kinds.

Oh and my dog and I were attacked by a deer this morning.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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