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ChaostoOrder
Lakota Peji Wicasa,



Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 553
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: abitavenger]
#12705605 - 06/07/10 08:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heres what they did for me, little over 5 ounce flush!!! Hpoo, 1:4 ratio...I think it couldn't hurt



This was my First attempt with HPOO...im hooked!!!
-------------------- Too weird to live, to rare to die....-Hunter S. Thompson

: [url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/10-21/47399604
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: ChaostoOrder]
#12705640 - 06/07/10 08:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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GOOD SHIT IS KING............ Same here, tried everything. Once I did h/poo subs, I never looked back.
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doornoblightbulb
Demigod



Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 319
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12705824 - 06/07/10 09:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
myco.alchemist said:
Quote:
doornoblightbulb said:
Quote:
Shea25 said: Because manure(not poo) is free to some so why not
Well I have a job... So I'd rather work for an hour, and buy 15-20 blocks of coir, then spend an hour hunting for shit... lol.
Because of the high microbial activity in both. H/poo & compost contain large amounts of chitin. Which coir doesn't, because it was never composted.
When all things are optimal. Easy to assimilate chitin in a substrate, will get you BIG ass fruits. BIG ass POTENT fruits are what this is all about.
Anyway to add chitin into the sub without poo or compost? (lol btw, horse manure would contain something called chitin hehe).
Can I get useful chitin from crushed crab shells? Is Chitosan useful at all?
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
#12706007 - 06/07/10 09:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shrimp, lobster, crab shells are impart chitin. Oven baked dry, ground to a very fine powder in a water slurry in a blender. Works perfectly & you cannot add to much.
Enjoy a good seafood dinner once or twice a month. Will get you more free chitin than you will ever need.
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dirtlambguy
Stranger

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 222
Loc: NC, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12706232 - 06/07/10 10:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mycoalchemist, you said you use only hpoo subs now. Straw mixed in or no?
-------------------- Dirtlamb makes you smart!
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12706993 - 06/08/10 01:25 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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 Well weathered h/poo is almost all fiber. No need to add straw.
I have a shredder, I do shred a straw bale or 2 into my compost pile. Trouble with straw is, mother nature designed it to repell moisture.
Unless it is shredded fine, then composted a bit. To break down the waxy coating on it. It has very poor moisture holding / retention capacity.
That is why straw subs are usually one flush wonders. Because that first flush pulls out most of the moisture. And a colonized straw sub doesnt rehydrate well.
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12706997 - 06/08/10 01:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
myco.alchemist said: Above 3% N, it's usually to N hot. Which can (but not always) impede colonization. About 2.75 N is the max N substrate content you should shoot for. Just to stay on the safe side.
Is the idea that a casing layer should be non-nutritive, so that it will stimulate the mycelia to fruit, coming into play here?
This would support coir's being such a good casing material.
..and the fact the when casing with coir one is getting mushrooms from the energy of the original spawn fits nicely.
This is a great thread!
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Javadog]
#12707021 - 06/08/10 01:36 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Coir is not a good casing material. Myc colonizes it, hence no "casing" qualities.
I only add about 1% coir to a casing cover mix. (see link in my sig) To insure myc will climb thruogh it to the surface.
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doornoblightbulb
Demigod



Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 319
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12713234 - 06/09/10 01:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
myco.alchemist said: Shrimp, lobster, crab shells are impart chitin. Oven baked dry, ground to a very fine powder in a water slurry in a blender. Works perfectly & you cannot add to much.
Enjoy a good seafood dinner once or twice a month. Will get you more free chitin than you will ever need.
Awesome, crab is my favorite food, now I'll have an excuse to buy some haha.
How much should I use? (in a decently sized mono tub)
Like a teaspoon of crab powder? Or less?
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
#12713633 - 06/09/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unless you go crazy, you cannot add to much. But, any more than a tablespoon of powder to a tub is overkill.
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Dreamtime
psy brew


Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 265
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12718411 - 06/10/10 12:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Great thread indeed!
answered allot of questions for me!
cheers all
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dirtlambguy
Stranger

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 222
Loc: NC, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
#12718428 - 06/10/10 12:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just made a sub using hpoo and verm. Wanted to add gypsum, but the weight reference threw me. I had 32 cups of dry poo, so I added 8 cups verm to make the 20% verm thing happen. But you said 2 cups gypsum to 25 lbs wet sub. Do you have a recipe that uses volumes instead of weights? Thanks
-------------------- Dirtlamb makes you smart!
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend



Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12719605 - 06/10/10 09:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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With gypsum you can't do much wrong. It isn't directly important how much you add. 5% to 10% of gypsum by volume. Not counting the verm.
It can be done quiet easily using your eyes, but if you want to make sure, measure your substrate (as said, without the verm) and add as many jars or whatever it takes to have 5% to 10%.
Quote:
And a good ash content that helps as a buffer... naturally keeping coffee in a great pH range for mushrooms due to its lime content as well. So, coir and coffee together makes sense.
Coffee is slightly acidic and is capable of altering the PH of a substrate to the acidic side. Since molds favor an acidic environment, but don't germinate well (or at all) in slightly basic environments we rather want it on the basic side. At least when it's not pasteurized. In combination with the amount of nutrients it provides, it even makes coir substrates prone for contams. So when you use coffee, the substrate should be pasteurized. Since this doesn't necessarily has to be done when you spare on the coffee, I prefer it that way.
Interesting thread indeed
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12719680 - 06/10/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sadly......... I don't. Reason being, I just "eyeball" sub content. I mix subs in big bags.

H/poo I use has already been through a shredder. So it's fluffy fiber & there are no big nuggets in it.
I have been doing this so long, its 2nd nature. I can tell its good to go by the look & feel of it. So, I don't follow any set recipe.
I fill a bag about 2/3rds full of h/poo. Then add Verm & a few additives. Then, hydrate, then pasturize.
Gypsum is a good thing. You don't want to add a ton of it. But, can add a lot. 2 cups to what you made isn't to much or 2 little. It will mix right in.
Just like a bowl of cornflakes cerial. Some folks add a lot of milk. Some folks add very little milk. Some folks add a lot of sugar. Some folks add very little sugar. Some folks add honey, others add raisins, or sliced peaches.
The long & short of it is, just don't go hog wild adding things. Learn a basic recipe that works for you. Once you get the "hang" of it, its all easy.
It's hard to F/U a h/poo substrate. Unless you go crazy addinng things. Key is once mixed get the moisture content right.
 I have a kelway ph / moisture meter.
It will measure moisture content down to a gnats ass. I seldom use it to measure moisture content of a substrate. Simply because I can hand squeeze a substrate mix & know when its good to go. That takes experiance, which takes time to learm. A gentle firm squeeze & the sub only drips a few drops of water. It's good to go.
If it doen't drip, add more water. If it pours out gobs of water. Squueze some out.
Once you learn to take care of all the little critical things. The big things fall righ into place, easy as eating apple pie.
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dirtlambguy
Stranger

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 222
Loc: NC, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12719731 - 06/10/10 09:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I take it from the pic that you pasteurize in an autoclavable plastic bag or something similar. I've heard that hpoo needs to be exposed to the hot water during pasteurization to loosen it up. Not true?
-------------------- Dirtlamb makes you smart!
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Fahkface
Over-Fiend



Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 4,821
Loc: In your Mind, Pedro! In y...
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12719844 - 06/10/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not true?
Nope. Not necessarily. When you pasteurize Horse manure in water directly it'll hydrate anyway. When you pasteurize using a pod-in-pod system or bags you need to bring it to field capacity first.
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Fahkface]
#12719887 - 06/10/10 10:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fahkface is on the money......... I hydrate to feild capacity IN the bag. Bag doesn't lose any moisture content when being pasturized.
Once cooled to room temps, bag content is ready to dump in a sanitized tray & get spawned.
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dirtlambguy
Stranger

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 222
Loc: NC, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
#12719931 - 06/10/10 10:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is there anything wrong with the way I pasteurize (in a burlap sack, exposing poo to the hot water)? Intuitively, I guess that nutrients are lost in the water that I pour out after pasteurizing. Enough to affect the grow though?
-------------------- Dirtlamb makes you smart!
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12719944 - 06/10/10 10:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
dirtlambguy said: Is there anything wrong with the way I pasteurize (in a burlap sack, exposing poo to the hot water)? Intuitively, I guess that nutrients are lost in the water that I pour out after pasteurizing. Enough to affect the grow though?
I prefer pasteurizing in jars/bag
Like this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11855283&page=0&vc=1#11855283
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myco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc:
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: dirtlambguy]
#12720182 - 06/10/10 11:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't pasturize in a burlap bag, pillow case, etc. Because, when you pull it out of the water, to DRAIN. All those litte bitty micro/macro nutes in solution go out with the drain water. I doubt it matters that much. But, I would rather keep them in the sub, rather than lost down a drain.
On top of that, using a burlap bag, or pillow case is MESSY. Plus, draining one exposes the sub to a lot of open air. Which can contaminate the sub.
Plus, hot steaming bags of h/poo hanging around is a GNAT MAGNET. Little fruit flies can smell that shit for miles. Then, make a bee line straight for it.
Gnats & fruuit flies are a giant PITA.
Hydrating in a plastic bag & pasturizing in the same bag.......... Minimizes a dripping mess, smell & open air exposure.
LOL, years back using cloth bags pasturizing huge amounts in a 55 G drum of hot water. Frigging bag was so heavy, I could not lift it out of the drum alone. Built a tripod & used a chain hoist to pull it out. Raised the bag up into the air, frigging bottom of bag ripped open. SPLAT went a couple hundred lbs of steaming hot shit, like a tidal wave ALL OVER THE PLACE.
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