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Offlinedoornoblightbulb
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How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms?
    #12694559 - 06/05/10 11:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well I'd like to grow the best, in quality and volume, and I'm just wondering is Hpoo is essential for this, or if I can get the same results using coir/coffee/gypsum.

Is hpoo needed to produce the best flushes?


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Offlinegreg86jgl
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12694631 - 06/05/10 11:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I have searched a lot and haven't seen a difference in volume or quality. I only used coir vermic coffee in mono tubs. The least I've ended up with is 5oz dry. Quality is usualy good but that has to do with gynetics.


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Offlinedoornoblightbulb
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: greg86jgl]
    #12696987 - 06/06/10 12:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

bump


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OfflineBentley
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12697086 - 06/06/10 12:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Both manure and coir perform the same.

They both hold nutritional value to myc. Equally.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Bentley]
    #12697121 - 06/06/10 01:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I've never used poo. :shrug:


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Offlinedoornoblightbulb
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Doc_T]
    #12697496 - 06/06/10 02:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I've never used poo. :shrug:




Do you use anything other then coir/coffee/gypsum in your sub? Like worm castings or straw or compost?


Edited by doornoblightbulb (06/06/10 02:10 PM)


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OfflineBentley
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12697567 - 06/06/10 02:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"First of all, it's manure.  Poo is what mommy used to change out of your diaper.

Second, coir and horse manure are about equal in performance.  Both work very well and have excellent texture, colonization speeds, fruiting performance, moisture retention, etc.  If you live in a big city and make lots of money, buy coir from any pet shop.  If you live in the country and/or don't mind going into a field with a shovel, horse manure is free and therefore a better choice.

Third, most garden gypsum is remnants from drywall manufacturing plants in the US. Mine even has the brown and white paper scraps in it. If you live in china, it's made from the toxic wastes scrubbed from the smoke stacks of coal burning power plants and very toxic.  Some was shipped to the US during the housing  boom, but the owners of most of those houses are having to tear it all out.
RR"

A little more info.


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Invisiblemyco.alchemist
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12697608 - 06/06/10 02:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If you can get FREE h/poo?
It rocks.

Coir works okay but cost money.

I get FREE h/poo by the pick up truck load.
They even load my truck for me FREE.......

I'm no fecal freak, but I love h/poo.

If you cannot get h/poo, go with coir.
you can perk up coir nutes with lots of things.
Just don't go crazy with additives.

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/airwaste/wm/recycle/tea/tea1.htm

Hydrating coir with compost tea helps & is toilet flush simple.


--------------------
CASING = GETTING IT RIGHT


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OfflineDreamtime
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: myco.alchemist]
    #12697827 - 06/06/10 03:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

sorry to hijack your thread, will pan cans do well on coir as apposed to being spawn with poo then?


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Offlinedoornoblightbulb
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
    #12699046 - 06/06/10 07:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think might warrant its own thread man lol, its a completely different topic.


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Invisiblemyco.alchemist
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
    #12699540 - 06/06/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

san rainbow said:
sorry to hijack your thread, will pan cans do well on coir as apposed to being spawn with poo then?





NO


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CASING = GETTING IT RIGHT


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OfflineDreamtime
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12700600 - 06/06/10 11:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

doornoblightbulb said:
I think might warrant its own thread man lol, its a completely different topic.




Sorry dood, just got excited when Bentley Said

"coir and horse manure are about equal in performance.  Both work very well and have excellent texture, colonization speeds, fruiting performance"

vibes bro and good luck growing!


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OfflinePsuper
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Bentley]
    #12701391 - 06/07/10 02:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

doornoblightbulb said:
Well I'd like to grow the best, in quality and volume, and I'm just wondering is Hpoo is essential for this, or if I can get the same results using coir/coffee/gypsum.

Is hpoo needed to produce the best flushes?




Well, who decided that increased volume means quality?

My favorite specimens to eat or share with a few close friends are shorter, larger capped specimens that haven't begun to thin the veil.  Obviously harvested without thought to the final weight. 

Seems like a funny question, just saying.

Quote:

myco.alchemist said:
If you can get FREE h/poo?
It rocks.

Coir works okay but cost money.





Yeah, folks who are paying for manure are chumps.  Same with purchasing coco-coir or straw at a pet store. Chumps.

Coco-coir bricks are cheaper when purchased in packs at hydroponic shops and quality nurseries.

Quote:

myco.alchemist said:

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/airwaste/wm/recycle/tea/tea1.htm

Hydrating coir with compost tea helps & is toilet flush simple.





Neat.  I know plenty of composters, I'll have to try this sometime at your recommendation.

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I've never used poo. :shrug:





What an interesting post.....


Quote:

Bentley said:
Both manure and coir perform the same.

They both hold nutritional value to myc. Equally.





You're saying that manure (from herbivores) in general is always perfectly "equal" to any coco-coir?  I think that is way too much of a blanket statement. ~P~


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
    #12701394 - 06/07/10 02:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

As said above, the performance factor is about the same.
And coir is indeed much more expensive in most cases.

But what wasn't mentioned yet, is that coir can be used without any kind of heat treatment, while manure can't.

Although it's advised, to even pasteurized coir based substrates, I never do it and never get any kind of contamination. It really is time saving not having to pasteurize a substrate, which makes it the perfect substrate for a busy lazy-ass like I am.

Bad thing is, that it's only good for Cubes:shrug:
Pans indeed need manure.


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OfflineDreamtime
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Fahkface]
    #12701426 - 06/07/10 02:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:

But what wasn't mentioned yet, is that coir can be used without any kind of heat treatment, while manure can't.

Although it's advised, to even pasteurized coir based substrates, I never do it and never get any kind of contamination. It really is time saving not having to pasteurize a substrate, which makes it the perfect substrate for a busy lazy-ass like I am.

Bad thing is, that it's only good for Cubes:shrug:
Pans indeed need manure.




I am still learning the craft, so I would want to be as sterile as possible...

I was led to believe that coir could be sterilized as apposed to pasteurized as there were no good stuff to kill?

is this the case?

cheers


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Invisiblemyco.alchemist
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
    #12701466 - 06/07/10 03:10 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

san rainbow said:
Quote:

doornoblightbulb said:
I think might warrant its own thread man lol, its a completely different topic.




Sorry dood, just got excited when Bentley Said

"coir and horse manure are about equal in performance.  Both work very well and have excellent texture, colonization speeds, fruiting performance"

vibes bro and good luck growing!




I beg to slightly differ.
A decade of my own experience & those close to me.
Gives us the opinion optimal h/poo substrate.
Results in more potency than coir substrates.

There is no hard scientific evidence to back that up.
But, a decade of use at least to me and those close to me does.

That is not to say, nor assert a coir substrate will not produce potent shrooms.
Coir does.

But my humble opinion is that h/poo adds something, coir lacks.
I think it "may" be a higher "N" content of h/poo substrates.

No way am I trying to create an argument.
Just my personal opinion from my own use & others I have witnessed.

At burning man, I watched a body painted guy wearing an Indian headdress.
Who had done some h/poo grown shrooms I grew sway in the moonlight, holding his dick in one hand taking a leak & drinking bottled water with his other hand at the same time.

The next day, I told him I had never seen anyone do that at the same time.
He laughed & told me he could feel the water going in as he swallowed it, the water passing through & out.
Like he was some sort of an eternal “river”  recycling water.

Man, that MoFo was HIGH…………….LOL.......:awesomenod:


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CASING = GETTING IT RIGHT


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OfflineFahkface
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Dreamtime]
    #12701475 - 06/07/10 03:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Coir can be used in pretty much any way.
However, I use it for years now without any kind of treatment and don't have any contam issues. And it's definitely not because my growing environment is all so clean.

People have successfully used sterilized coir. Many more people successfully use pasteurized coir.

I have never analyzed coir in a way that would tell me what micro organisms and fungi are present in it, but the general rule of thumb for any kind of substrates in a non-sterile environment is pasteurization. In the end coir is plant material and should contain certain "things" that Cubes love.

Go ahead and try and I'm pretty sure you won't have any problems. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have any problems using it without doing anything:shrug:.


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OfflineUrbanistiC
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: Fahkface]
    #12701762 - 06/07/10 06:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I might get knocked a bit for my advice, but Ive found that the BEST is straw... you don't really need manure for bigger yields. Personally, Ive done both. I actually get better yeilds using worm castings and straw spawned with millet and kept that formula for a while. Now Im on straight straw and millet and casing is a compost/peat/coir mix, and found that its more about how you bring them up rather than deviations in substrate... to an extent. Lemme explain...

Citing Stamets...

One of the easiest mushrooms to grow, this species fruits on a wide variety of substrates within broad environmental parameters. As a primary and secondary decomposer, Psilocybe cubensis fruits well on untreated pasteurized straw and on horse manure/straw composts transformed by microbial activity. Sterilized grain typically produces smaller mushrooms than bulk substrates.


To answer your question... I do not think Horse Manure is totally essential for top-notch mushers, but do not forget that Manure is part of the Cubensis natural environment: sub-tropical and tropical zones, as well as pastureland's loaded with manure. If you do go with manure, don't over-process it.

I would focus on keeping your temps, humidity, and timing in check... that would be a bigger essential than deciding between coffee or poop for me :smile:  GO DEEP... I recommend 7-8 inches depth for 3-4 good flushes. And its all about the PH.. keep it at 6-7.

Hope that helps!

OH... and I dont use Coir for Cubensis because Coir has no nutritional content... just cellulose and lignin, like what wood-lovers eat up in cardboard and wood chips. I use coir for its moisture-holding capabilities in casing only.  Cubensis doesnt eat cellulose as much as it does carbs and proteins... more predominant in Manure and Straw.

And here is a reference for the nutritional content of straw... http://www.uwex.edu/ces/crops/uwforage/StrawTable1.htm



--------------------
Keep it ReaL.


Edited by UrbanistiC (06/07/10 06:52 AM)


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Offlinedoornoblightbulb
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: UrbanistiC]
    #12703787 - 06/07/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

UrbanistiC said:

OH... and I dont use Coir for Cubensis because Coir has no nutritional content...





...I'm sure people on here will refute that. But thanks for your input anyways.

It looks to me like a mix of both coir and manure is ideal. I'm set for coir... and I do live near farm land. I just don't wanna roll up to a farm house in my volvo and be like "yoooo got poop?!"

I guess I'll give it a shot lol.


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OfflineUrbanistiC
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Re: How essential is hpoo for top of the line mushrooms? [Re: doornoblightbulb]
    #12704009 - 06/07/10 03:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like a good idea! And in fact, don't be afraid to do just that! Best thing to eye for is horses or stables. They will be more than glad to part with some poo, and I bet you ten bucks that you wouldnt have been the first! Just say you need it for your garden! Me, Im not shy, so I let them know I grow mushrooms... portobellos, that is :wink:


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