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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Question For The Sages On Here
#12685314 - 06/04/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685329 - 06/04/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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True in a sense, false in a sense, true and false in another sense.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685347 - 06/04/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Middle, I'm a simpleton. I'm gonna need more clarity.
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evildee125
Here now



Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3,179
Loc: fl
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685365 - 06/04/10 02:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685375 - 06/04/10 02:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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You won't ever see it, you can put yourself in a place where it can see you and wait for it to look in your direction. Unity is still within dreaming, one cannot know unity without contrast to plurality. Ramana was beyond even that.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685404 - 06/04/10 02:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unity is within the dream...
What is the dream?
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Angel_Above
Nobody


Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 5,348
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685411 - 06/04/10 02:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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We are all of one consciousness.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
We were all part of the same one particle during the process of the big bang, and everything you see "around you" comes from that one particle that we all share within us. Do anything at all, and it effects the totality of the universe, though you may not see it that way.
By particle I do not necessarily mean a particle of mass.
In this now moment, there are an infinite amount of things simultaneously occuring. Not just everyone on earth, but everyone and everything that is everywhere in the universe is all in this now moment.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but I am really beginning to see how we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from innumerable perspectives all at the same time.
Bashar's 4 laws of creation really did expand my knowledge of the nature of our existence.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Angel_Above]
#12685447 - 06/04/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: We are all of one consciousness.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
We were all part of the same one particle during the process of the big bang, and everything you see "around you" comes from that one particle that we all share within us. Do anything at all, and it effects the totality of the universe, though you may not see it that way.
By particle I do not necessarily mean a particle of mass.
In this now moment, there are an infinite amount of things simultaneously occuring. Not just everyone on earth, but everyone and everything that is everywhere in the universe is all in this now moment.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but I am really beginning to see how we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from innumerable perspectives all at the same time.
Bashar's 4 laws of creation really did expand my knowledge of the nature of our existence.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
How would one be sure of this? There may be something before this universe.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Angel_Above]
#12685459 - 06/04/10 02:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Imagine a single transcendental particle that moves faster than light, thus popping in and out of time everywhere at once to create all phenomena. This particle would be the only thing that's "real".
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685484 - 06/04/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
Well he may be saying something accurate or he may not. This would be something you would have to find out for yourself. From what I've found out it's true and its not. We are all made from the same material and that material seems to be connected in some strange way. On the other hand in this gross physical dimension we feel and act separately. Now because of what I believe I know I can say when I look at the world I see a reflection of myself but that is just what I believe and what I believe or what anyone else believes for that matter might be wrong. At least that's what I think.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685486 - 06/04/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are you saying that there is only 1 consciousness or the same consciousness is just manifesting itself through everything around us?
There is a big difference between believing that other people are in fact yourself and believing that others do exist outside of you, but are moved by the same godly principle that moves you.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12685492 - 06/04/10 02:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I believe awakening ≠ solipsism, but they are very close. The absolute in relation... I could convey this better with a melody on a bamboo flute.
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AngryPhil
Herenow


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 1,201
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685771 - 06/04/10 03:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: Are you saying that there is only 1 consciousness or the same consciousness is just manifesting itself through everything around us?
There is a big difference between believing that other people are in fact yourself and believing that others do exist outside of you, but are moved by the same godly principle that moves you.
The godly principles that move you have been described, in part, as physics These principles move you These principles move me These principles move everything that is here
-------------------- The creation takes hand of the chisel...
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: AngryPhil]
#12685852 - 06/04/10 03:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is there a chance that this perception of the godly principle manifesting itself through everything is just a shadow of a deeper reality?
That reality being that there is only 1 consciousness having the experience of separate individuals?
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deff
just love everyone


Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686015 - 06/04/10 03:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think it might be a very empty rainbow-like universal consciousness experience wherein material separation is just an illusion
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686018 - 06/04/10 03:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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That belief is very common among many here. I can't imagine this is the first you've heard of it.
Is there a chance? Of course there is. Is there conclusive evidence for it. Not much at all. It may be beyond the realm of our ability to investigate. That's why the question still remains unanswered in the minds of most.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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evildee125
Here now



Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3,179
Loc: fl
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686041 - 06/04/10 03:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: Is there a chance that this perception of the godly principle manifesting itself through everything is just a shadow of a deeper reality?
That reality being that there is only 1 consciousness having the experience of separate individuals?
From what ive experienced that is somewhat the case.. at least with regards to one consciousness.. but I experienced not as seperate individuals.. but rather individual aspects of the same individual
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: evildee125]
#12686144 - 06/04/10 03:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think he must see his translator? Or how would she know?
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
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Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686477 - 06/04/10 04:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
Consider this quote except supplement God with consciousness. Meher Baba ->
Quote:
In Reality there is only One. In Illusion there are many. The reason why there is so much confusion as to whether there is one God or many is because God is so Infinitely One.
Even to say, There is one God is wrong. God is so infinitely One that He cannot even be called One. One may only say, One IS. The word "God" is only an attempt to give that One a name, for in actuality He has no name. Even to say that God is One implies the possibility of two. For one to say there are many Gods is madness.
God is that "One" playing innumerable roles. For example, one of you is sitting with his eyes closed and in his imagination he creates innumerable things, and in the very act of imagining them he preserves them. Then he opens his eyes, and in so doing destroys all the things his imagination had created and held together. Thus the same person played different roles, that of creator, sustainer and dissolver.
Again, another is in sound sleep — which is the Original State of God — people say he is asleep; but in sound sleep he is not even conscious of himself as himself. When he wakes up people say, he is awake, and when he brushes his teeth, people say, he is brushing his teeth. And when he is seen walking, running about, speaking, singing, etc., he is merely playing different roles. He cannot be more than one, for he is only one.
All that we can ever say is: God is, or, One is.
The infinite self is so incredible it can include multiple self's within its own self. The We is really a super me so great it contains an infinite number of Mes within itself.
I think when we become enlightened or god-realized the individual experience disappears because the ego disappears. The ego is the outcome of desires occurring in consciousness, a vortex of desires creates a separate ME, being the outcome of these desires it's existence is dependent upon them.
As the desires whither away through experience the ego is freed up from them, consciousness filter (the mind) which maintains the experience of separateness dampens. If desires cease then the mind completely vanishes and consciousness is unbound from its filter. In Nirvana or God there is nothing to say this is ME because there is nothing but ME, there is nothing but yourself so there is no way to create a separate self. In God or Nirvana there is only infinite consciousness & its outcomes - infinite knowledge, power, and bliss. Omnipresence causes omnipotence. There is only one consciousness but there are many many minds, however they only exist because they appear to exist, they are an illusion. In reality there is only one self but as long as we are here in Samsara or what is called in Vedanta the GROSS(physical reality) sphere then there will be the false experience of multiple selves.
Quote:
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
"Before" the universe there was infinite consciousness or infinite being but it is not conscious of itself because there is nothing but itself. The universe is the outcome of God becoming aware of his own infinite knowledge-power-bliss that was already within him.
Quote:
Supppose the ocean equals God. But in the beginning, the ocean did not know that it was a mighty ocean. This desire to know itself is the wind which created a bubble. The bubble is an atom, and the water in the bubble is the soul. After gradual advancement, the atom becomes a human form which becomes a wave. Now the wind gives the human form a small boat, meaning lifetimes, and the sea air is sanskaras(impressions).
The state of the man in the boat is that his hands are tied and hence he cannot take an active part in moving the boat — his life. He only breathes in and out. This breathing, which is an exchange of sanskaras, moves his boat. If he breathes in a good way and creates good sanskaras, the wind blows in such a way that his boat is led to a boatman who is a Sadguru. The boatman has dived into the ocean and now again swims to the surface of the water. He grasps the helm of those boats which come to him.
The boatman unties the man's hands and actually drowns him in the ocean. The moment he is drowned, he realizes that "I myself am the ocean." Now instead of remaining in the ocean, he surfaces and takes command of the boat — over which previously he had no control, but which now comes under his control — and he begins to move it wherever he wishes.
Meher Baba
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12689809 - 06/05/10 04:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
Id like to know what the question asked to him was, but still...
I can only try to point in the direction so you can see it yourself If you know the consciousness within yourself, then you may come to find its the same consciousness in everyone else The fdifference bwteen us is the same thoughts moving in a different order, within the same one consciousness Just like multiple galaxies appear within the same space
The only way to really understand it is to rediscover that state Ramana was in as your own natural state When you find it you'll just know, that look in Ramanas eye will be in your eye, you'll feel it And its only the experience of awareness, what you are, so the way to experience it is to fully 'be what you are' Which means not holding onto anything, no ideas about yourself, not trying to get somewhere, just be aware, be here But don't be here as an imagined 'thing' just be here as presence, existence, honesty, truthfullness
Don't touch what you see, just Be Out of that 'just Being' all the wisdom you seek will come to you, from you Nobody else will give it to you, you wont read it or hear about it, you'll KNOW it yourself, by being your Self
The trouble we have is this knowledge is not phenomenal, its pure intuition The knower & known are one, when the mind is so used to dualistic knowledge Its like - give up this mind that knows objects, and just know/Be your Self Don't know anything at all but your Self, drop everything else & know That The knowledge is just that you are here as formless presence, but its not thinking 'i am here as formless presence' Its more feeling it, abiding in that empty awareness that you truthfully are
Ramana pointed to the Self over & over for a very good reason You just have to acustom your mind to focusing on your Self rather than focusing on ideas about yourself 
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TheWolf
Antechamber Of Mystery


Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 225
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Chronic7]
#12690644 - 06/05/10 10:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said: You just have to acustom your mind to focusing on your Self rather than focusing on ideas about yourself 

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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 day
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12691197 - 06/05/10 12:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Do the countless waves upon the ocean negate the unity of the ocean? Does the unity of the ocean negate the countless waves that arise from it, peak, and then disappear on the shore? Can you not see that Nirvana is Samsara, and that Samsara is Nirvana? Both Unity and multiplicity exist simultaneously. The Unity, when perceived is called Nirvana. The multiplicity when perceived is called Samsara. A moment of Nirvana is the 'white eye' in the black Yin of the Yin-Yang. The perception of the jivatman is one of multiplicity, that of the Self is Atman, to use Sri Ramana's terms. Consciousness is "amphibious" according to Huxley, and can identify with both poles of identity. The Buddhist saying about Nirvana-Samsara proclaims the simultaneity of both. Living in Sat Chit Ananda presumably parallels this saying. Living in the Here & Now, riveting as it is, allows the mental-emotional-sensate barrage to be permeated with the stillness of Being (as Eckhart Tolle is best known for reiterating). This is perhaps as close as most of us can come to the ideal, while still living in regular American society. The elimination of numerous attachments/addictions is necessary for living a spiritual life in this sense. That means he insidious cell phone addiction has to go first. This pet peeve of mine simply cultivates 'Monkey Mind' in the worst way.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I just bought my first cell phone this year. I put it in the glove compartment of my car in case I need to call AAA. I have never used it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Addiction to using a cell phone, i don't get it? I feel like i can feel the radiation from mine so i hate having it anywhere near me lol Take it dude its yours!
I really do sometimes think about not having a cell phone at all
Quote:
Icelander said: I just bought my first cell phone this year. I put it in the glove compartment of my car in case I need to call AAA. I have never used it. 
I think we should live together ice  I like the way you dislike people, its in a likeable way lol
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Chronic7]
#12692308 - 06/05/10 03:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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You'll have to help me paint the house you know.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12692346 - 06/05/10 03:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like your recent attitude of being away from humans
I reckon i could do with a good 6 months away from civilization, or at least 40 nights
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 day
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12694576 - 06/05/10 11:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah. My Lady Rose made we get one after she had a pool emergency during a torrential rain and the phones were out at work. She had to call a friend in another school, to phone a person in my school to take her cell up to my room and demand I phone home! Now, it sits in my back pack on vibrate. Month before last used 0.8 minutes. This month, zero. We're trying to fight Verizon putting a 100 foot cell phone tower at the edge of our housing community.
I got my first cell Christmas 2008. The first call I received was from my long-lost very first love-turned-hooker-pimp, whom I was trying to locate (like several other long-lost college era friends). After several intense conversations, and the ire of my Lady, I only receive spam calls and never call out. I have kids who say "Wow, it's been 2 minutes and I haven't gotten a text!" They are supposed to turn the cell off during school hours. Right. I have group rules and all electronics are verboten. They're in group to reflect, if possible, emote, relate, debate, and, in a word - think!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Owce
Stranger

Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 34
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Interesting topic. Would like to share my experience if you won't mind my weak english. Still learning.
I guess the point of having a teacher rather than reading books and debating online is that in the subject of spiritual/psychological improvement people tend to form certain classes according to what is closer to them. I am not much a person of the 'soul' stuff, much more the 'mind' stuff. I don't really feel that all this zazen and other imported bullshit is of any use, but i know it in fact is. Just not for me.
So if you want to meditate about that, just do that i guess. I think about that like this.
We expect the existence of outer reality. That is default. Not to is always bit a stretch and usually its only done in philosophy to sound cool, without seeing it and that i hate. But realizing what really is is important. And what really is is that all you see, hear and think is your mind. Once again, it is right to belive there is the world. That is definitelly the right interpretation. But on occasion you want to work with this concept in other way.
Don't think about it like what is true. Truth in factual sense is the smaller piece of the image. But it can be expressed in numerous ways that, when saing the same thing, are in fact very different.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Owce]
#12695534 - 06/06/10 03:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I had a dream the universe was born from a single thought light is conscious eternal love and all existence, serves to perpetuate itself infinitely. The goal being to evolve based on wisdom gained through experience and knowledge over time. What better way for perpetual creative evolution than for one consciousness to experience itself subjectively, in infinite different variations and from infinite different perspectives simultaneously? Ultimately we are all connected to the same source, at the base of it all. Wherever that source may be, we are the divine manifestations of creation made flesh and given free will and an individual experience to pave the way for future evolutionary progress. Many times throughout your life you may meet someone, who you feel intimately connected to, like you've known them your whole life. Perhaps you shared a past life karmic bond, or perhaps you both realize that you are reflections of one other and laugh and the ingeniousness of it all, whatever the case may be.. like woah man. At least thats what the dream said
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rikuni
Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Shroomism]
#12695623 - 06/06/10 04:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 04:13 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: rikuni]
#12695739 - 06/06/10 06:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Evolution has no ending.
I wouldn't be too sure about that one. Evolution as we know it is connected to physical reality and life. If those come to an end and they could imo...
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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rikuni
Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12696380 - 06/06/10 10:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 04:13 AM)
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: rikuni]
#12696394 - 06/06/10 10:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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What about when the Earth is finally destroyed by natural forces? Then the galaxy?
There are only so many places for life to hide out before it is finally extinguished.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: rikuni]
#12696405 - 06/06/10 10:46 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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In a few billion years the sun will die and absorb and destroy the earth including 100% of the life on it. If the universe continues to expand and cool all life that might be in deep space will die out. This is very possible. Then evolution could well end. No one knows imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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rikuni
Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Sleepwalker]
#12696431 - 06/06/10 10:52 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 04:14 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Owce]
#12696453 - 06/06/10 10:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for post #1! It is not so much your English that is difficult, it is your position, which, it seems, is rooted in sense experience and the mind's interpretation of it. But, if I have mis-interpreted, feel free to clarify what you are saying. Sense experience IS a sort of survival-based "default" for the physical body, but the inner life is multi-levelled. The 'soul' as it were has different divisions or levels of subtlety according to different traditions. The nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya, and yechida in Judaism, for example. The intellectual, emotional and vegetative levels in Plato. Hindu metaphysics? Alice in Wonderland felt herself 'shutting up like a telescope,' and indeed, all spiritual paths must first wrench one away from addiction to sensory input. I wrote here not too long ago about a friend's adolescent son who had one ear plugged with an IPod, the other ear against a cell phone, a laptop sat on his stomach while the TV was on in front of him. A picture of piggery. A glutton for the audio-visual senses. The senses cannot provide fulfillment. One sexual partner is not enough, nor a menage a trois, or an orgy, or repeated orgies. It's another aspect of modern's 'Twinkie diet,' because no matter how many sweet Twinkies one consumes, the result is going to be a hastening of malnutrition, disease, decay, and potential death.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: rikuni]
#12696622 - 06/06/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
rikuni said:
Quote:
In a few billion years the sun will die and absorb and destroy the earth including 100% of the life on it
In a few billion years One could say in a few billion years we just move the earth through hyperspace and save 100% of the life on it. lol
You are talking about things that are not currently possible and may never be. That's not much of a argument for your position.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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rikuni
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12696677 - 06/06/10 11:42 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/15/14 04:14 AM)
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Alice in Wonderland felt herself 'shutting up like a telescope,' and indeed, all spiritual paths must first wrench one away from addiction to sensory input.
It is through directing the mind inward, away from sense-consciousness, that we begin to identify with the intuitive-mind (manas) which facilitates the “Universal Mind and Transcendental Intelligence” (Govinda 74).
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12697022 - 06/06/10 12:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: rikuni]
#12697058 - 06/06/10 12:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
rikuni said: No, You are talking about things that are not currently possible and may never be.
You believe some scientists , they are wrong in so many things 
It will take more than the word of someone on this forum to prove that what you speak of is actually possible at this time.
So I'm asking you to back your statements with any kind of evidence.
Just because you say something doesn't make it true. This seems to be a common belief here and I see no good reason for it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I wrote here not too long ago about a friend's adolescent son who had one ear plugged with an IPod, the other ear against a cell phone, a laptop sat on his stomach while the TV was on in front of him. A picture of piggery. A glutton for the audio-visual senses. The senses cannot provide fulfillment.
One man's picture of piggery is another man's avenue of attainment. Let the fool persist, in fact, give him a push. Don't just eat that steak, eat the hell out of it. This is why I don't think the purity of Zen and the solemnity of classic mysticism is for our kind, the time has come for a more humorous and horrendous approach.
Icelander: This forum is for the transcendence of puny concepts such as "true" and "false". If someone makes a specific claim that you can debunk with a reference feel free, otherwise STFU.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12701688 - 06/07/10 05:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Im with you dude, this awareness has to be integrated into life/realized as life, not separated from it For a time 'shun the objects of the senses as if they were poison' (shankara) can be very powerful Yet i feel the whole ultimate point of all this is integral experience, not creating more inner separation
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12701713 - 06/07/10 05:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I wrote here not too long ago about a friend's adolescent son who had one ear plugged with an IPod, the other ear against a cell phone, a laptop sat on his stomach while the TV was on in front of him. A picture of piggery. A glutton for the audio-visual senses. The senses cannot provide fulfillment.
One man's picture of piggery is another man's avenue of attainment. Let the fool persist, in fact, give him a push. Don't just eat that steak, eat the hell out of it. This is why I don't think the purity of Zen and the solemnity of classic mysticism is for our kind, the time has come for a more humorous and horrendous approach.
Icelander: This forum is for the transcendence of puny concepts such as "true" and "false". If someone makes a specific claim that you can debunk with a reference feel free, otherwise STFU.
Next time I'll rephrase.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Chronic7]
#12702731 - 06/07/10 12:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said: For a time 'shun the objects of the senses as if they were poison' (shankara) can be very powerful
Asceticism is for wankers; IMO the road of excess is a faster route to the palace of wisdom. It ultimately comes down to personal preference of course.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12702810 - 06/07/10 12:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said: This is why I don't think the purity of Zen and the solemnity of classic mysticism is for our kind, the time has come for a more humorous and horrendous approach.
Hmm, I like this idea.
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deff
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12702969 - 06/07/10 01:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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i like the pure approach, there's less to do and i'm lazy like that
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12703248 - 06/07/10 01:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thinking things out for oneself is hard work.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12703278 - 06/07/10 02:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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as we think things out we create the very things we're thinking out
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12703288 - 06/07/10 02:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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as far as you know, that's true.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12703293 - 06/07/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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at least when i'm thinking it's true it is
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deCypher



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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12703312 - 06/07/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: as we think things out we create the very things we're thinking out 
Or is it the Universe that is creating itself through the illusion of your thoughts?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12703317 - 06/07/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wish that worked for me. I'd be emperor of the world right now.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deff
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deCypher]
#12703320 - 06/07/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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why even postulate a universe?
that too is a thought! 
(and all this thinking is too much work imo)
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deCypher



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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12703331 - 06/07/10 02:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I tried disbelieving the Universe out of existence but then I experienced an incredibly painful hangover and realized that the external world persists no matter what I think.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deCypher]
#12703452 - 06/07/10 02:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deCypher]
#12703607 - 06/07/10 02:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyph3r said:
IMO the road of excess is a faster route to the palace of wisdom.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the road of excess is also a faster route to the palace of dead.
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AngryPhil
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12703963 - 06/07/10 03:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heaven Here Hell
Oh no! Don't take me out of here I can't get out of here Oh no! Get me out of here
have what you want
Respectively
-------------------- The creation takes hand of the chisel...
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12703983 - 06/07/10 03:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said:
Quote:
Cyph3r said:
IMO the road of excess is a faster route to the palace of wisdom.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the road of excess is also a faster route to the palace of dead.
Live dangerously, right?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: deff]
#12704178 - 06/07/10 04:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: i like the pure approach, there's less to do and i'm lazy like that 
Slack on, brother.
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