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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Question For The Sages On Here
#12685314 - 06/04/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685329 - 06/04/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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True in a sense, false in a sense, true and false in another sense.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685347 - 06/04/10 02:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Middle, I'm a simpleton. I'm gonna need more clarity.
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evildee125
Here now



Registered: 03/23/09
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685365 - 06/04/10 02:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685375 - 06/04/10 02:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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You won't ever see it, you can put yourself in a place where it can see you and wait for it to look in your direction. Unity is still within dreaming, one cannot know unity without contrast to plurality. Ramana was beyond even that.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685404 - 06/04/10 02:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unity is within the dream...
What is the dream?
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Angel_Above
Nobody


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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685411 - 06/04/10 02:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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We are all of one consciousness.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
We were all part of the same one particle during the process of the big bang, and everything you see "around you" comes from that one particle that we all share within us. Do anything at all, and it effects the totality of the universe, though you may not see it that way.
By particle I do not necessarily mean a particle of mass.
In this now moment, there are an infinite amount of things simultaneously occuring. Not just everyone on earth, but everyone and everything that is everywhere in the universe is all in this now moment.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but I am really beginning to see how we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from innumerable perspectives all at the same time.
Bashar's 4 laws of creation really did expand my knowledge of the nature of our existence.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Angel_Above]
#12685447 - 06/04/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: We are all of one consciousness.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
We were all part of the same one particle during the process of the big bang, and everything you see "around you" comes from that one particle that we all share within us. Do anything at all, and it effects the totality of the universe, though you may not see it that way.
By particle I do not necessarily mean a particle of mass.
In this now moment, there are an infinite amount of things simultaneously occuring. Not just everyone on earth, but everyone and everything that is everywhere in the universe is all in this now moment.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but I am really beginning to see how we are all one consciousness experiencing itself from innumerable perspectives all at the same time.
Bashar's 4 laws of creation really did expand my knowledge of the nature of our existence.
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
How would one be sure of this? There may be something before this universe.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Angel_Above]
#12685459 - 06/04/10 02:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Imagine a single transcendental particle that moves faster than light, thus popping in and out of time everywhere at once to create all phenomena. This particle would be the only thing that's "real".
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685484 - 06/04/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
Well he may be saying something accurate or he may not. This would be something you would have to find out for yourself. From what I've found out it's true and its not. We are all made from the same material and that material seems to be connected in some strange way. On the other hand in this gross physical dimension we feel and act separately. Now because of what I believe I know I can say when I look at the world I see a reflection of myself but that is just what I believe and what I believe or what anyone else believes for that matter might be wrong. At least that's what I think.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Middleman]
#12685486 - 06/04/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are you saying that there is only 1 consciousness or the same consciousness is just manifesting itself through everything around us?
There is a big difference between believing that other people are in fact yourself and believing that others do exist outside of you, but are moved by the same godly principle that moves you.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: Icelander]
#12685492 - 06/04/10 02:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I believe awakening ≠ solipsism, but they are very close. The absolute in relation... I could convey this better with a melody on a bamboo flute.
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AngryPhil
Herenow


Registered: 01/22/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12685771 - 06/04/10 03:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: Are you saying that there is only 1 consciousness or the same consciousness is just manifesting itself through everything around us?
There is a big difference between believing that other people are in fact yourself and believing that others do exist outside of you, but are moved by the same godly principle that moves you.
The godly principles that move you have been described, in part, as physics These principles move you These principles move me These principles move everything that is here
-------------------- The creation takes hand of the chisel...
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: AngryPhil]
#12685852 - 06/04/10 03:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is there a chance that this perception of the godly principle manifesting itself through everything is just a shadow of a deeper reality?
That reality being that there is only 1 consciousness having the experience of separate individuals?
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deff
just love everyone


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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686015 - 06/04/10 03:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think it might be a very empty rainbow-like universal consciousness experience wherein material separation is just an illusion
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686018 - 06/04/10 03:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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That belief is very common among many here. I can't imagine this is the first you've heard of it.
Is there a chance? Of course there is. Is there conclusive evidence for it. Not much at all. It may be beyond the realm of our ability to investigate. That's why the question still remains unanswered in the minds of most.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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evildee125
Here now



Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3,179
Loc: fl
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686041 - 06/04/10 03:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: Is there a chance that this perception of the godly principle manifesting itself through everything is just a shadow of a deeper reality?
That reality being that there is only 1 consciousness having the experience of separate individuals?
From what ive experienced that is somewhat the case.. at least with regards to one consciousness.. but I experienced not as seperate individuals.. but rather individual aspects of the same individual
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: evildee125]
#12686144 - 06/04/10 03:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think he must see his translator? Or how would she know?
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12686477 - 06/04/10 04:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
Consider this quote except supplement God with consciousness. Meher Baba ->
Quote:
In Reality there is only One. In Illusion there are many. The reason why there is so much confusion as to whether there is one God or many is because God is so Infinitely One.
Even to say, There is one God is wrong. God is so infinitely One that He cannot even be called One. One may only say, One IS. The word "God" is only an attempt to give that One a name, for in actuality He has no name. Even to say that God is One implies the possibility of two. For one to say there are many Gods is madness.
God is that "One" playing innumerable roles. For example, one of you is sitting with his eyes closed and in his imagination he creates innumerable things, and in the very act of imagining them he preserves them. Then he opens his eyes, and in so doing destroys all the things his imagination had created and held together. Thus the same person played different roles, that of creator, sustainer and dissolver.
Again, another is in sound sleep — which is the Original State of God — people say he is asleep; but in sound sleep he is not even conscious of himself as himself. When he wakes up people say, he is awake, and when he brushes his teeth, people say, he is brushing his teeth. And when he is seen walking, running about, speaking, singing, etc., he is merely playing different roles. He cannot be more than one, for he is only one.
All that we can ever say is: God is, or, One is.
The infinite self is so incredible it can include multiple self's within its own self. The We is really a super me so great it contains an infinite number of Mes within itself.
I think when we become enlightened or god-realized the individual experience disappears because the ego disappears. The ego is the outcome of desires occurring in consciousness, a vortex of desires creates a separate ME, being the outcome of these desires it's existence is dependent upon them.
As the desires whither away through experience the ego is freed up from them, consciousness filter (the mind) which maintains the experience of separateness dampens. If desires cease then the mind completely vanishes and consciousness is unbound from its filter. In Nirvana or God there is nothing to say this is ME because there is nothing but ME, there is nothing but yourself so there is no way to create a separate self. In God or Nirvana there is only infinite consciousness & its outcomes - infinite knowledge, power, and bliss. Omnipresence causes omnipotence. There is only one consciousness but there are many many minds, however they only exist because they appear to exist, they are an illusion. In reality there is only one self but as long as we are here in Samsara or what is called in Vedanta the GROSS(physical reality) sphere then there will be the false experience of multiple selves.
Quote:
The universe came from nothing. Before the universe, there was nothing. That nothing created the universe.
"Before" the universe there was infinite consciousness or infinite being but it is not conscious of itself because there is nothing but itself. The universe is the outcome of God becoming aware of his own infinite knowledge-power-bliss that was already within him.
Quote:
Supppose the ocean equals God. But in the beginning, the ocean did not know that it was a mighty ocean. This desire to know itself is the wind which created a bubble. The bubble is an atom, and the water in the bubble is the soul. After gradual advancement, the atom becomes a human form which becomes a wave. Now the wind gives the human form a small boat, meaning lifetimes, and the sea air is sanskaras(impressions).
The state of the man in the boat is that his hands are tied and hence he cannot take an active part in moving the boat — his life. He only breathes in and out. This breathing, which is an exchange of sanskaras, moves his boat. If he breathes in a good way and creates good sanskaras, the wind blows in such a way that his boat is led to a boatman who is a Sadguru. The boatman has dived into the ocean and now again swims to the surface of the water. He grasps the helm of those boats which come to him.
The boatman unties the man's hands and actually drowns him in the ocean. The moment he is drowned, he realizes that "I myself am the ocean." Now instead of remaining in the ocean, he surfaces and takes command of the boat — over which previously he had no control, but which now comes under his control — and he begins to move it wherever he wishes.
Meher Baba
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Question For The Sages On Here [Re: appleorange]
#12689809 - 06/05/10 04:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said: I'm especially hoping that Chronic chimes in here.
Someone asked Ramana a question and he remained silent, his translator spoke on behalf of him and said this:
"Ramana does not see anyone outside of his self. So there are no disciples for him."
This seems like the most heady subject in spirituality and the one thing I am completely flabbergasted about. There are a few instances in Zen of this being talked about, but for the most part it remains pretty unspoken about it.
Could there be only 1 consciousness and the people which you see around you are none other than yourself? There never were other people, we were just talking to ourselves the entire time?
If this is true, what proof or direction would you point someone in to see this?
Id like to know what the question asked to him was, but still...
I can only try to point in the direction so you can see it yourself If you know the consciousness within yourself, then you may come to find its the same consciousness in everyone else The fdifference bwteen us is the same thoughts moving in a different order, within the same one consciousness Just like multiple galaxies appear within the same space
The only way to really understand it is to rediscover that state Ramana was in as your own natural state When you find it you'll just know, that look in Ramanas eye will be in your eye, you'll feel it And its only the experience of awareness, what you are, so the way to experience it is to fully 'be what you are' Which means not holding onto anything, no ideas about yourself, not trying to get somewhere, just be aware, be here But don't be here as an imagined 'thing' just be here as presence, existence, honesty, truthfullness
Don't touch what you see, just Be Out of that 'just Being' all the wisdom you seek will come to you, from you Nobody else will give it to you, you wont read it or hear about it, you'll KNOW it yourself, by being your Self
The trouble we have is this knowledge is not phenomenal, its pure intuition The knower & known are one, when the mind is so used to dualistic knowledge Its like - give up this mind that knows objects, and just know/Be your Self Don't know anything at all but your Self, drop everything else & know That The knowledge is just that you are here as formless presence, but its not thinking 'i am here as formless presence' Its more feeling it, abiding in that empty awareness that you truthfully are
Ramana pointed to the Self over & over for a very good reason You just have to acustom your mind to focusing on your Self rather than focusing on ideas about yourself 
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