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AlexD
Stranger


Registered: 05/28/10
Posts: 347
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions?
#12665175 - 06/01/10 06:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pot, shrooms and other psychedelics are definitely out of question for me. One sane reason to keep a drug illegal is its potential to provoke violence. PCP has been reported to induce violent psychosis. However alcohol is probably much worse in that regard but it still sounds silly to make it illegal. So then what legalize all of them?
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ShroomerRoss


Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 4,444
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#12665192 - 06/01/10 06:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
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bezoo69
Shroom Protectorate



Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#12665197 - 06/01/10 06:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is something I think about all the time... I don't think it would work because people are to stupid to have the self control. But i'd seriously be all for it.
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  fungiobserver.blogspot.com
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Fungicide
Neophyte


Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 268
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: bezoo69]
#12665244 - 06/01/10 07:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: ShroomerRoss]
#12665266 - 06/01/10 07:14 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomerRoss said: all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
Agree. Just don't ask me to pay for your problems if you screw yourself up.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: Seuss]
#12665481 - 06/01/10 08:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
ShroomerRoss said: all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
Agree. Just don't ask me to pay for your problems if you screw yourself up.
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
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drewmandan
Stranger


Registered: 01/30/10
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Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: zappaisgod]
#12665512 - 06/01/10 08:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
Well said. Also, I think that if alcohol is legal, you can pretty much laugh off any attempt at a harm-reduction argument for making other drugs illegal.
Oh, and the thing about PCP is mostly urban legend. It's not any more likely to cause violence than beer or a large coffee.
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AlexD
Stranger


Registered: 05/28/10
Posts: 347
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: zappaisgod]
#12665688 - 06/01/10 10:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
Because there is no way for ban it just for stupid people? I don't think there is yet any substance that merits that, but still if there is some drug that makes any violent individual go into murderous rage it should be banned in my opinion.
Quote:
Oh, and the thing about PCP is mostly urban legend. It's not any more likely to cause violence than beer or a large coffee.
I don't know. It may be no more likely to cause violence than alcohol, but I never saw cops bust someone that violent on any other drug.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#12665969 - 06/01/10 11:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlexD said:
Quote:
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
Because there is no way for ban it just for stupid people? I don't think there is yet any substance that merits that, but still if there is some drug that makes any violent individual go into murderous rage it should be banned in my opinion.
No. The violent individual should be banned. Preferably to some uncharted desert island.Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and the thing about PCP is mostly urban legend. It's not any more likely to cause violence than beer or a large coffee.
I don't know. It may be no more likely to cause violence than alcohol, but I never saw cops bust someone that violent on any other drug.
Really? Drunks get belligerant all the time. They just fall down more.
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AlexD
Stranger


Registered: 05/28/10
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: zappaisgod]
#12666132 - 06/01/10 11:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
No. The violent individual should be banned. Preferably to some uncharted desert island.
But you can't do that. Even if we send all violent felons to an island a majority of violent dudes will still roam the streets. And if some drug makes even 10% of them attack everything they see, it probably should be banned.
Quote:
Really? Drunks get belligerant all the time. They just fall down more.
Yeah I know about drunks. I meant beside that.
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bezoo69
Shroom Protectorate



Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Tasmania
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: zappaisgod]
#12668218 - 06/01/10 06:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
ShroomerRoss said: all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
Agree. Just don't ask me to pay for your problems if you screw yourself up.
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
eh whatever, wait untill junkies rob you for meth money
--------------------
  fungiobserver.blogspot.com
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drewmandan
Stranger


Registered: 01/30/10
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: bezoo69]
#12672936 - 06/02/10 03:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bezoo69 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
ShroomerRoss said: all drugs need to be legal, let the individual decide what they want to do with their body.
Agree. Just don't ask me to pay for your problems if you screw yourself up.
Indeed. Citing individual stupidity, as bezoo did, creates infants of us all. I am not stupid. Why should my freedoms be limited because someone else is?
eh whatever, wait untill junkies rob you for meth money
Exception that proves the rule. If it wasn't for meth being illegal, it would be cheap and available, so no one would need to rob. When was the last time you saw someone get robbed for tobacco money? Sounds silly, doesn't it?
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: drewmandan]
#12731835 - 06/12/10 03:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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After reading this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4090712 I would totally legalize all drugs with some regulations on purity.
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John
ssdp.org


Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
#12758656 - 06/17/10 03:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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yes, all drugs should be legalized.
a question for people that think hard drugs like crack, heroin, and meth should remain illegal, if they were legal would you run to the nearest store buy it and start using? if no why not? do you really think you're so much smarter than everyone else?
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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Giveadont
Chaos

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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: John]
#12782227 - 06/21/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
John said: yes, all drugs should be legalized.
a question for people that think hard drugs like crack, heroin, and meth should remain illegal, if they were legal would you run to the nearest store buy it and start using? if no why not? do you really think you're so much smarter than everyone else? 
Exactly.
Plus, one thing that's really hard to explain to people against certain drugs (especially when they've had some bad personal experience with them) is the fact that things like heroin, cocaine and meth are drugs created and marketed on the street. They are "street drugs", whose wide availability is due to their illegality (thus they are unregulated) and are much more potent versions of their natural counterparts.
Now, opium is still dangerous, but nowhere near as much as street heroin. There are pharmaceutical opioids that are just about as potent (such as Fentanyl). People don't really have access to those, though, because they're highly regulated in a legal market (a very strict one that limits users in accordance to a physicians discretion, rather than a drug lord's). Accordingly, while still abuse-able, the pharmaceutical's rate of abuse is always going to be less than that of an unregulated street drug. However, you do reduce the possibility of violent crime when you make something like heroin freely accessible for addicts like in Holland (and, personally, I find the American concept of using methadone as an alternative pretty asinine).
Also, something like cocaine, while it has a high potential for abuse, is actually fairly harmless in its natural form (the coca plant). It's really only as the smokable street drug "crack" that it can pose much of a danger to large numbers of people (especially when a government agency is outright distributing it... ~cough~ CIA ~cough~). I don't think the "moral majority" of the 80s really understood that through sensationalizing such a drug's abuse, they implanted a neurotic attitude in parents that made youth all the more likely to defy them. Had these things not happened, though, cocaine probably wouldn't have emerged onto the black market with the same level of viciousness. Plus, unlike opium, regular cocaine seems to take much longer to addict physically. I know of plenty of people who have used it a few times throughout their lives and still would rather not use it.
As for crystal meth... well... considering it's a fairly recent phenomenon with recent generations, my estimation is that you would have far less people abusing it had they not been first introduced to its sibling, Methylphenidate (Ritalin) in their youth. Not to mention, very few people would probably be using it at all if they had the alternative of using a safer, traditional psychedelic instead.
Which brings me to my next point: People have to take into account the amount of times misinformation on certain drugs has led people to use/abuse harder drugs. In a population where drug laws are created with non-threatening and rational attitudes behind them (along with a fair amount of access to truthful information), individuals are far more likely to avoid harmful drugs. Imagine- someone in a position of authority explains the pros-cons of using crystal Meth or PCP vs LSD or Mescaline. Which do you think is going to sound more like the "rational choice" if one has already decided they're interested in altered states of consciousness? A solid, real world example of this is the recent phenomenon of Marijuana being used as a painkiller in the place of the more addicting and dangerous opiates. The benefit of doing something like this is especially great when the subject in question is likely to overindulge in their medication for whatever reason.
Sure, there are a few insane jerks out there who will do whatever they want regardless of the consequences. But these are usually the sort of people to which no law can protect from in a preventative sense. On the other hand, there are a fair amount of people who would, no doubt, be in a better position had their fascination with drug-induced consciousnesses been guided by a wiser sort of individual or collection of individuals (this site) with vast experience and/or knowledge in said subject.
-------------------- Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors. ...as your attorney I advise you to not worry about me.
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4896744
Small Town Girl

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#13049969 - 08/14/10 10:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I might support having highly addictive drugs being regulated by physicians. It could be like you have to pay for it yourself but the physician prescribes you safe doses and amounts. It would also be much easier for people to get off of things they were addicted to like this. But even then I am in support of all drug legalization. It just creates crime, and if you were to truly educate people on all drugs I think the vast majority would be able to control use.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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mianfei
Mr.


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: 4896744]
#13450523 - 11/07/10 08:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have read a good deal about the “drug war” and I have never gained the impression it does anything to help people.
Alcohol and tobacco are the most dangerous legal drugs, though tobacco use has been reduced by a large number of campaigns and high excise taxation. Whilst tobacco has been shown to be in some ways very dangerous due to the presence of nicotine, and alcohol in excess is known to be similarly dangerous, I recall as a child reading that moderate doses of alcohol can in fact be beneficial. The same is apparently true of most hallucinogenic drugs. Thus, it can be said that hallucinogens really should in general at least be fully legalised.
On the other hand, at times I think some drugs, especially performance-enhancing drugs, actually should be much more regulated than they actually are. People who deal in steroids to athletes are, as the story of Korey Stringer may show, just as dangerous as any dealer in more heavily proscribed drugs. Whilst steroids - like narcotics - do have medicinal uses, it is questionable what would happen without regulation of them. There could well be even more nasty results if there was no shame attached to the use of steroids by athletes.
On the other hand, people like Hans Hoppe argue that government regulation is counterproductive in dealing with the problem of steroids. This school says that the way to deal with drug problems is to eliminate the welfare-based public sector so that people stop focusing on instant gratification and pleasure and instead work towards long-term happiness and productivity. If this is so, then outlawing drugs does even less to deal with the problem of an angry, hostile society that reacts with depressants or aggressive stimulants when its people do not get exactly what they want when they want it.
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Eywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper

Registered: 10/04/10
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: mianfei]
#13546640 - 11/27/10 01:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here is what i would do. I'd fully legalize all natural plants fungi etc that are used as drugs. If sold for human consumption these materials would have to be regulated to ensure safe consumption. A minimum requirement would be so as to educate on: expected effects, side effects, safe dose, effect duration, interactions, and a minimum guarantee of dose quantity and purity, this would especially apply to synthetic drugs like LSD, MDMA, etc. Strong narcotics and stimulants such as cocaine and meth should be by doctor's prescription, or by a waiver issued by a druggist. Under no circumstances should someone be sent to prison for drug use in and of itself. Though supplying drugs to minors without the parent's permission would be a serious crime.
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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mianfei
Mr.


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: John]
#13611237 - 12/10/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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The question of whether, if hard drugs like cocaine, amphetamines and heroin were outright legal, people would quite naturally go into a store and buy them is an interesting question.
Standard history books like William Strauss and Neil Howe’s Generations seem to suggest that many people in the late nineteenth century did in fact buy cocaine at first sight without acquiring the slightest knowledge of what that drug does. I have read that there was among reformists of the early 1900s alarm that youth were trying drugs like cocaine - I once read it was in the original “Coca Cola” and the source of its name - with the result that the Progressive movement almost uniformly wanted criminalisation of the drug.
The question is whether criminalisation of hard drugs really has made them more dangerous than they would be if people were allowed to use them. Their generally highly addictive character means that, with the massively increased price from criminalisation, that those who do try them despite their being illegal will resort to far worse activity than taking these drugs to get the money unless they are (which of course many narcotic addicts are) super-rich.
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joshuak2james
Stranger



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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: mianfei]
#13641446 - 12/16/10 11:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would support the legalization of all drugs. If we are all truly to have free will, allow us to exercise it..people are aware of the consequences of their actions, and ultimately it should be a personal decision..being criminalized for enriching our lives is tiresome.
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natural medicine
PoppyEnthusiast

Registered: 01/03/11
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#14104757 - 03/11/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Idk man. I did DXM once, which is purportedly like a less crazy PCP. I can only describe my mental state then as insane. It wasn't mind expanding at all, but I almost beat the crap out of a hamster for running on it's wheel.
TBH, if we want to base our laws on reason, who is to say that we shouldn't legalize opiates, psychedelics, and entactogens, and make alchohol illegal? After all alchohol is the one that makes people emboldened, violent, and reduces motor skills. But at the same time I'm personally a very mellow non-violent drunk, so why should others ruin it for me??
The only solution I think is to move toward making everything legal (unless the death rate is somehow obscenely high, like 10% chance of death at any dose etc.) Normal laws about behavior would apply. Swerve through lanes and be punished for that. Act out in public and be punished for that. Not the substance.
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ZenXi6
Illuminate



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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: natural medicine]
#14120733 - 03/14/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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"CONSUMERS UNION — the highly respected, scrupulously impartial organization responsible for Consumer Reports—studied the drug problem in this nation long and hard. Its conclusions—yet unpublished—are:
This nation's drug laws and policies have not been working well; on that simple statement almost all Americans seem agreed. . . . They are the result of mistaken laws and policies, of mistaken attitudes toward drugs, and of futile, however well-intentioned, efforts to "stamp out the drug menace." [What we have in this country is] aptly called the "drug problem problem"—the damage that results from the ways in which society has approached the drug problem.
The Consumers Union report made six recommendations. I quote:
- Stop emphasizing measures designed to keep drugs away from people.
- Stop publicizing the horrors of the "drug menace."
- Stop increasing the damage done by drugs. (Current drug laws and policies make drugs more rather than less damaging in many ways.)
- Stop misclassifying drugs. (Most official and unofficial classifications of drugs are illogical and capricious; they, therefore, make a mockery of drug law enforcement and bring drug education into disrepute. A major error of the current drug classification system is that it treats alcohol and nicotine—two of the most harmful drugs—essentially as non-drugs.)
- Stop viewing the drug problem as primarily a national problem, to be solved on a national scale. (In fact, as workers in the drug scene confirm, the "drug pro-blem" is a collection of local problems.)
- Stop pursuing the goal of stamping out illicit drug use.
The report, which is nearly six hundred pages long, concludes,
"These, then, are the major mistakes in drug policy as we see them. This Consumers Union Report contains no panaceas for resolving them. But getting to work at correcting these six errors, promptly and ungrudgingly, would surely be a major step in the right direction."
I'm sorry. I lied. The previous excerpts were not from a "yet unpublished" report. The report was published in 1972. It was published by Consumers Union in book form, Licit and Illicit Drugs. It asked for its proposed changes to be made "promptly and ungrudgingly." Instead in 1972, President Nixon began our most recent war on drugs. How successful has prohibition been? To give but one example: since 1972, according to the office of National Drug Control Policy, annual cocaine use in this country has risen from 50 metric tons to 300 metric tons."
Straight from Peter McWilliam's book:
Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do
Of which the entire thing is available online for free at the above address.
----
The whole argument often gets steeped in these sort of debates, debates of subjective experiences and individual perceptions on what these substances do to a majority of individuals.
Everyone needs to take a step back and look at things realistically.
What CAN we police, what CAN'T we police... and what SHOULD we be policing, anyway?
Is it really everyone's business if someone sits at home and responsibly uses morphine?
Of course, it becomes other people's business if that same person takes to the streets in a violent rampage.. but then, they are committing a crime against other people's person or property, which is an objective crime. Whether or not a person was provoked is the reason why we have courts.. but here we have VICTIM and PERPETRATOR.
When that same morphine user is at home - where is the victim? Is the perpetrator the victim of their own crime?? Does that even make sense?
In the end, we have to accept that people WILL and DO ALREADY in fact do stupid things. But, while the police and legal systems are so busy stopping and controlling the activities of sensibler folk, they have a whole lot less time, money and resources to stop the stupids of the world.
The drug war also takes a lot of money away from things like, education, health and mental health programs that could help those who do have a problem (How often is a DRUG the problem, rather than something deeply seeded in someone's life/psychology?) solve that problem, rather than making them criminals.
--------------------
We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!
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Ralafe
Whistling Pot
Registered: 09/13/10
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: AlexD]
#14121010 - 03/14/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm for legalization across the board. I still wouldn't be interested in trying a lot of drugs, personally, but what we've been doing in the states doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I believe it should be the decision of the individual what he or she ingests, and how.
I don't think anyone should be prosecuted for providing themselves with mind altering substances, that's ridiculous. Causing damage to people and property in the attempted creation of mind altering substances (meth comes to mind here) is still causing damage to people and property, which isn't legal that I'm aware of, and I think it should stay that way.
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Zaxol
Stranger

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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: Ralafe]
#14144555 - 03/18/11 05:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I see no reason why most things shouldn't be legal. If your no hurting anything else what's the big deal? Alcohol causes a ton of problems yet it's still legal.
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Remix
grammer natze


Registered: 08/05/10
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: Zaxol]
#14150739 - 03/19/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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All drugs should be "legal" in a vague sense. Nobody should be put in jail for simply using ANY drug. I believe this should also include if you "produce them" for yourself (and, in the same way with alcohol, if you want to trade/use with a few friends I see no real problems either).
However, there should be strict regulations regarding who can sell and distribute drugs business-wise.
Age restrictions are a necessity, too.
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SpiritDreamer
TreeHugger



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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: Remix]
#14205051 - 03/29/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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--------------------
If you don't respect and understand the drug you are about to take, you shouldn't be doing it. youtube vid - 'the truth about drugs' - (part 2) http://www.youtube.com/user/MrTheOutspoken
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communeart


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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: SpiritDreamer]
#14244254 - 04/05/11 08:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe we should strive to legalize soft drugs and make Heroin a free on demand thing. The sheer amount of money save and human quality going up should be enough to create a momentum of long deserved change in society. a society without any reefer madness. a society that said no more to genocide now needs to say no more to Lies from the media!
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JustExtreme
Stranger
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Re: Would you support legalizing all drugs or there are some exceptions? [Re: joshuak2james]
#14674368 - 06/26/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think all drugs should be legalized but there should be different degrees of regulation applied to them.
For hard drugs such as heroin I think there should be special dispensaries which provide sterile needles and dosing areas along with advice and assistance with getting off for those that want it.
Aside from that, what one decides to put into oneself should be their own business and the government has no right to act like it owns their body or person by restricting this.
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