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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28064793 - 11/22/22 02:01 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Egon_Spengler said:


(excited Cartman voice) you guys!



I busted out the macro lense and cm/mm scale to show you guys my bountiful harvest



ONE SEED lol







Love you!





that looks yummy you should eat it to see what it tastes like. you might need 100 of them but they look like little black berry's


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Invisiblehummingbird

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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Penroc3]
    #28064985 - 11/22/22 04:23 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I've eaten the fruit parts left after picking the seeds out before, it tastes like sugar.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hummingbird] * 3
    #28069834 - 11/26/22 08:03 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)



P3F11, manually selfed with a lil buzzing humming booty wiggle


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OfflineSoloist
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28070284 - 11/26/22 02:29 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

My seedlings are about a month and a half old and around pea sized in a pint deli container…what’s the consensus on some FAE holes?


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Soloist]
    #28070322 - 11/26/22 02:56 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Soloist said:
My seedlings are about a month and a half old and around pea sized in a pint deli container…what’s the consensus on some FAE holes?




If they look healthy, they should be fine at 6 wks. Just start small/slowly. You’ll want the hardening-off process to be slow and gradual. A week w/ a couple tiny holes, a week with a couple more, a week w/ em slightly enlarged, and so on until eventually left uncovered


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OfflineFlamingBabies
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28073310 - 11/28/22 04:18 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I'm working on a mineral soil mix as described in the stone eaters pdf. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the ideal proportion of particle sizes in a mix? Is there an ideal ratio of fines (<1/8") to coarser particles (1/8"-1/4")? I grew lophs in a coarse mix (>1/4") for 5 or 6 years...while they survived and looked hard as nails when I decided to repot them, they really didn't grow at all. I'd like to keep the hard-grown look while supporting at least a little bit of growth.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: FlamingBabies] * 1
    #28073381 - 11/28/22 04:53 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Water more often and add a little bit of nutrients for a boost in growth rate. Stone eaters diet will make them grow very strong but not fast. I use 100% granite chips, gravel. Mine grow slowly but do grow when nice and hot. I feed my cacti once in the spring and sometimes again in the summer. If they bloat too much just don't water while leaving them in full sun.


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28076139 - 11/30/22 01:37 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

hey egon,

i was considering grafting a few of my babies to get them to produce seeds sooner & was wondering if you could shed some light or had any links on how you grafted your lophs. i have some pereskiopsis i can take cuttings of, i also have some PC san pedro i could cut up & some dragonfruit (hylocereus) cuttings if those would work as grafting stock. yours are so beautiful & i would love to have some specimens like yours.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hazyhorse] * 1
    #28076166 - 11/30/22 01:52 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
hey egon,

i was considering grafting a few of my babies to get them to produce seeds sooner & was wondering if you could shed some light or had any links on how you grafted your lophs. i have some pereskiopsis i can take cuttings of, i also have some PC san pedro i could cut up & some dragonfruit (hylocereus) cuttings if those would work as grafting stock. yours are so beautiful & i would love to have some specimens like yours.




Yeah! The following link is the best video I’ve seen, and I come back re-watch it every time I’m going to do some micro-grafting on pereskiopsis. He’s mostly working with Tricho seedlings here, not lophs. But the techniques are exactly the same (you’ll see a bunch of his other cacti types on his little shelf-tour that have all been done the same way). His seedlings are super tiny too, basically just sprouts a few days to weeks old. But again, the principles are the same for seedlings up to a cm or two across, depending on the thickness of your pere stock.

I have only so far used pere, but have seen lots of grafts on dragon fruit and PC pachanoi (am actually growing both for future grafting stock right now), but have no personal grafting experience with them yet.

The one tip I’d like to mention that may not be covered in the video is this: your goal with pere is not just the faster growing root system for nutrient/water uptake and delivery. It’s also the increased photosynthetic surface. The best rootstock will be 8-10” long before you snip the tip, and will still be 6-8” after. It should also have LOTS of leaves left on this long stalk. You can have success with a stock that is only 3-4” tall with 4 leaves on it, but your scion will not grow as fast as it could. I see lots of pics/videos out there where folks have a well rooted pere stalk with lots of succulent leaves and they chop the whole thing down to make the graft. It works, but not nearly as quickly.

Grafting on pereskiopsis

Also, if you’re on Reddit, check out the r/graftingplants sub. It’s almost entirely an active cacti sub.

——
Edit: I just skimmed through the video again, and wanted to note that I don’t use cling film any more. I graduated to parafilm, the exact same kind that some folks use for wrapping Petri dishes. It works as a great self-adhesive grafting tape. And since it stretches so nicely, a square that’s been pulled out in all directions can be secured down over on top of and around seedlings of a certain size, so that continuous gentle downward pressure onto the stock is maintained while the joint is being formed, sticking to itself and needing no clips. Another advantage to the parafilm is that it “breathes” more, while keeping the humidity in, and does not need to be removed as early. You could potentially leave it on forever and the seedling would grow through it, because the parafin waxy texture breaks down over a long period of time.

I definitely did use cling film and orchid clips for a long time though. It works. I had more rotten scions with the cling film which I attributed to too high moisture inside. But i was also less practiced then, maybe I just fucked em up. But like I said, I like the parafilm a lot, and it has other uses too; grafts of larger or different plants, plus myco uses.

Aside from that, I still do everything his same way as shown in the video, including T5 fluorescent tube lights indoors.

Good luck, homie

——
Edit 2: oh, and when selecting the right pere to use…look for the straightest, upright stalks to cut. The prettier, leafier taller stalks work best. It grows differently in different conditions like other plants. It can bend and reach out for the light, it will stretch the space between nodes in low-light conditions, it’ll yellow if not super healthy. And depending on water availability and heat and stuff, the same plant will produce different leaf forms…thicker rounder more succulent in high light high water, thinner longer pointer in dryer, low light places…same with thorns & glochids.

Starting with the leafiest, straightest tip cuts (not mids), snip 8” or so off and root for at least two weeks. Once rooted, I let it resume tip growth to 10” or so above the soil-line, then cut back to 6-8” tall depending on the thickness of the stalk, trying to closely match thickness to my seedling-scions.

Pere mids are great for propagating more pere, but in my experience, don’t make the best grafting stock. Having had the apycal meristem removed at the time of rooting (not grafting) means by the time you’re ready to graft, the stock will be much more prone to pushing side shoots from lower nodes, instead of sending all available nutrients up to the scion. Pere tips are better for grafting as a result. You’ll still have to do the maintenance of removing occasional side shoots the first couple months, but less so.


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Edited by Egon_Spengler (11/30/22 02:28 PM)


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28076234 - 11/30/22 02:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

fuck yeah, you're the man egon!! thank you so much for the reply! seriously, it means a lot. that was super thorough & should get me started. i'll keep your tips in mind as i prepare to do it! still need to grow out some longer root stock, my pere plants all kind of get neglected so i need to start over with some cuttings lol. but i do have some dragon fruit that i didn't really need... may have to try my hand at a graft today! good to know about the photosynthetic surface! i didn't even consider that, but it totally makes sense. i know those red/yellow/orange gymnocalycium they graft onto dragonfruit aren't photosynthesizing, that has to be coming from the dragonfruit underneath it. never thought of it that way. 

good to know the subreddit isn't total dogshit! i very selectively use reddit but if the sub is good i'm all in. my gf is big on reddit lurking so i'll have to send the sub her way too :lol:

noticed this comment:

Quote:


Are you aware that the bottom half of the seedlings that you chucked away can be grafted too? With the root end sticking up and the cut end down on the Pere just like you do with the top half. It works and doubles your chances per seedling! Best of luck and thanks very much for your informative video.




is this actually possible? would be awesome to not have to throw away something that could also be grafted.


edit: just read your second edit lol. excellent info to have. i noticed my pereskiopsis look way different than the pics/videos i've seen & i def think it's because i've been treating them more like desert plants. they tend to drop leaves since i underwater them lol & i have them scattered around the house in pretty low light areas (though i have one under lights). i'll take some cuttings today & do my best to make sure they stay healthy top cuts! totally makes sense that mid cuts would be prone to side shooting.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hazyhorse]
    #28076284 - 11/30/22 02:48 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Yeah, tons of lame subreddits out there, but I really do recommend that one.

And yes: I saw that comment and other videos I don’t have links to will demonstrate the practice and the results. It does work. I tried it with limited success and it is possible. I think there are limiting variables, though.

Since an upside-down root end being used as the scion will not have its natural apex to continue growth from, the scion plant is forced to either branch or pup (or fail entirely). In the case of Tricho seedlings (which I recommend practicing on before cutting up your precious lophs, if you have any available), a small, upside-down sprout will have more areoles from which to pup, and I’ve had more success with them than lophs…maybe 25% success rate with upside down root ends. With my lophs, I think I only had 1 or 2 succeed out of 18, and haven’t had any more chances to try. I think it was likely due to the shape of the young sprouts not having as many areoles near the bottom, and maybe the cut I made just left more material for the right-side-up graft to work with.

Let me know how your hylocereus attempts turn out. I have a couple pots where i sowed some seeds and have dozens, maybe hundred seedlings ranging from thinner than a pencil to thicker than my thumb, but i think I need to separate some out to see them really take off. All the decorative moon cacti and gymno’s and stuff all use big thick chunks, and I just haven’t worked very hard to help them get that big. Probably all root-bound and choking each other out.

If you’ve got some Tricho’s to play with first, I’d suggest it. There will be failures among your first attempts. I did a few dozen tricho grafts as practice, getting better success rates every batch, before I ever worked up the courage to cut one of my baby lophs, just because i could sow a few hundred tricho seeds for the same price with much more convenience as I could a dozen hard to get loph seeds.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hazyhorse] * 1
    #28076308 - 11/30/22 02:58 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
edit: just read your second edit lol. excellent info to have. i noticed my pereskiopsis look way different than the pics/videos i've seen & i def think it's because i've been treating them more like desert plants. they tend to drop leaves since i underwater them lol & i have them scattered around the house in pretty low light areas (though i have one under lights). i'll take some cuttings today & do my best to make sure they stay healthy top cuts! totally makes sense that mid cuts would be prone to side shooting.




Lol, sorry for multiple edits. When talking gardening I get to chatting away like I’m having a conversation with a hairdresser or something.

Yeah, and as they grow, even the best cuts will eventually drop leaves and that’s okay. The plant is a workhorse, and eventually tires itself out. But you can give your scion a good start by picking the leafiest stalks. Dropping leaves over time is not necessarily an indication that the plant is unhealthy, they just do it after a while. The scion will continue to grow, but will also likely slow down a bit. No big deal. After a while you can de-graft and either root the plant on its own, or graft onto a newer thicker stock. (Which is exactly my plan as soon as my first PC cuts are rooted and ready.)


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #28076338 - 11/30/22 03:12 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

you really gotta dig for the gold on reddit but once you find it it's usually a wonderful little place.

no worries on the edits; i do the same thing & a lot of stuff crosses my brain after i finish making the post :lol: i'm always down to chat away & talk shop about plants! they are just so awesome & it's easy to get wrapped up in it lol. been meaning to start a thread for general houseplant growing just to shoot the shit about it.

good to know! definitely makes sense with lophs/button cactus & a lack of places to produce pups. i'll have an army of pere stock when & if i attempt the upside-down grafting. also, as much as i'd like to jump into the loph grafts, that's really good advice about practicing on trichos first. i have some san pedro seedlings going as well & can afford to use one as practice. it would really suck to lose some loph grafts- like you said, seeds are hard to come by.

totally makes sense that they would drops some older leaves after awhile. i've noticed this with my houseplants too & at the plant store i work at i always tell customers not to worry if they have an occasional few leaves die off here & there. when you degraft, could you potentially cut above the initial graft & leave some aerole to pup out of? seems like it would be a good way to keep pumping out cuttings if the rootstock wasn't exhausted.

hylocereus are incredibly fast growing (as i'm sure you know), but it might be a bit before your hylo seeds get big enough to graft onto. i've started some seeds from grocery store fruits & had some good success, but my plants that are a year old or so are pretty small still. granted, i probably underwater & it's been a learning curve with distance from my growlights, but i know it can take like 4-7 years before they are mature enough to produce fruits. if you're looking to get some root stock quicker, might be worth it to buy some mature cuttings off the 'net, or get one of those moon cactus & rip the top off. i've heard of plenty of people getting their dragon fruit plants that way. i got some dragon fruit cuttings off etsy for like $15-$20 that were massive & super mature. still getting them established after their first growing season, but they grow soooo fast & i'm sure you'd end up with more than you know what to do with in a few months after rooting. rooted mine in some water on a seedling heat mat & they exploded with roots. i also have a seedling from the same batch that i tossed into a DWC hydroponic setup. it fucking exploded, & i shit you not it is about 100x the size of the seedlings. i'll have to upload a pic later, but hydro is sick & could be an interesting way to cultivate cacti considering the increased growth rate.



sorry for all the questions, but i have one last one for you... do you water the graft? or the rootstock? ie. should i water the pereskiopsis/hylocereus as i normally would? or would this overwater the tricho/peyote? i'm assuming you water the rootstock since they prefer to stay moist, but just wanted to clarify.


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you're not the first to set foot here, just another
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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hazyhorse] * 1
    #28076364 - 11/30/22 03:24 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

You work at a plant store? Let’s be best friends.
:rofl2:

Your inclination is right, water for the rootstock, not the scion. I’ve read that sometimes lophs can split if the stock is pumping them way way too full. But I’ve never seen it, personally. Mine all just turned into pupping machines instead. I suspect that PC or  sungoddess type echinopsis fatter stock could contribute to that kind of problem, but on pere I don’t think overwatering is an issue. My pere can tolerate being really damp for extended periods that I would not subject a loph or tricho to on their own roots, but the scions are all just fine.


But yeah man, if you start up a general houseplant thread in the Culinary, Gardening & Brewing forum, shoot me a PM. I’ll be down for some houseplant chit chat. You could prolly help me out with my lady’s pepperomias and zz plants. I never met a person that could kill a snake plant before….she done it.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hazyhorse] * 1
    #28076385 - 11/30/22 03:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

when you degraft, could you potentially cut above the initial graft & leave some aerole to pup out of? seems like it would be a good way to keep pumping out cuttings if the rootstock wasn't exhausted.




Yes. Fairly common practice too. More so when propagation large cuts (even grafted specimen), folks will frequently take the top 80% or more of a tricho and leave the bottom 20% to callous and then pup to continue producing. but I’ve totally seen it done with lophs too, when the stock is still pushing. Just gotta sulphur and callous the cut well.


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler] * 1
    #28077172 - 11/30/22 09:23 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

i'm down! :lol: any plant people are a friend of mine (: working there has definitely given me a lot more appreciation for plants in general. i'm not an expert by any means, but i've learned a ton just having to water so many different types of plants all the time. you'd be surprised how many people kill snake plants & succulents. some people just really love to water lol. had people say they weren't watering a cactus "that much" & when asked it was once a day. would absolutely be down to chat & help if i can figure out what's going on with the plants! you'll be the first to know when i make the thread. didn't have time today to snag plant pics to post along with it but i should have some time in the next two days!

fuck yes. thank you again for all your help & insight. really good stuff to know. it's gonna feel so wild watering a tricho or loph that much!! i def need to learn to water my pereskiopsis better. took some cuttings today & am going to try to keep them fairly damp once they root. used fox farms ocean forest with a bit of added perlite & homemade worm castings! here are the babies:



good to know about the degrafting too. gonna be really bad ass to keep some mother plants pumping out pups if i can! i'm so excited to go down this grafting rabbit hole lol. i have seedlings to play with but might need to order more tricho seeds if i run out... :lol:

thank god you suggested practicing with less valuable seedlings first because i definitely fucked up a little. grafted a small san pedro seedling to the hylo! by the end i think i got it looking pretty good but i definitely dropped the pedro cuttings a few times before figuring it all out... just rinsed the dirt off, hopefully that doesn't bone me lol. tried grafting the root as well since i happened to have 2 hylos! also poked some small holes in the cling wrap using the scalpel to facilitate a slight bit of FAE



--------------------
you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================

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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hummingbird]
    #28077270 - 11/30/22 10:43 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hummingbird said:
I've eaten the fruit parts left after picking the seeds out before, it tastes like sugar.





i wonder what the mescaline content is lol

they do look yummy and surprising it came off a succulent


thanks for the reply


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Offlineask the dust
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Penroc3]
    #28077805 - 12/01/22 10:54 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Are there any decent active lophophora forums or decent cacti growing forums? So far I’ve been relying mostly on r/lophophora and was looking for some additional resources.

In a similar vein, any books on the topic would be great.

I’ve been trying to pick up a physical copy of Trout’s Notes but they’re going for like $200 online for some reason.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: ask the dust]
    #28077959 - 12/01/22 12:11 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Most books are on habitat and cultivation books are a bit dated...

many have switched to the 'stone eaters' method using mineral soil. Lots of videos on YT showing cultivation methods. Shameless plug @ModernGrower (my youtube) I post videos on how I cultivate mine and some experiments.

Everyone has their own 'recipe' and growing style... choose someone and stick to that don't try to mix and match until you get a general basics down. I personally use 90-95% gravel base (granite) then add a top layer 1-2 cm thick on top using gardensoil or top soil. Mine is clay based but can be any type... I use to keep humidity higher then place a clingwrap to keep warm and moist for a month.

Most growers leave them in high humidity for upwards of 6 months plus... I tend to remove at 1 month. You can keep them in there as long as you don't have mold issues. Then water when the soil gets drier. First few months they can handle very moist conditions but you can slowly acclimate them to drier and drier periods between watering.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28078022 - 12/01/22 12:48 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I’ll have to check out yr YT
:smile:


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