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OfflineSoloist
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Registered: 02/10/22
Posts: 922
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Solipsis]
    #27907292 - 08/17/22 08:19 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Anyone had any luck grafting to Opuntia? I’ve read quite a bit about it and it seems opuntia can be a tough one.
But, Opuntia humifusa being the only native in my area, I have access to tons of stock options.

I really love my Trichs and think I’d like to get to know Lophs as well. (If anyone has a reliable vendor or, well, another source I would really appreciate the  help)


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Edited by Soloist (08/17/22 08:32 PM)


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InvisibleFeroxx
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Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 688
Loc: Cruel sun
Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Soloist]
    #27908563 - 08/18/22 05:42 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

the difference in shape makes grafting hard as well, there are some much rounder opuntias like elata/canterae and fragilis though


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Registered: 04/02/22
Posts: 2,294
Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Feroxx]
    #27913260 - 08/22/22 07:34 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)



P3F3 opened and Selfed.



Also, bud for P3F4 emerging.



And buds for P1F7 & P1F8 emerging. Still no signs of fruit at 46 days. 56 days to appearance has been suggested in the past as typical. But with this many flowers, I’m wondering if this is not actually a self-sterile Huizache variety, and perhaps only the couple of flowers which have been crossed might fruit, and so the plant keeps pumping out flowers to make up for so many being selfed, unsuccessfully fertilized. 8 seems like a lot of flowers for one plant, if all the pollination attempts have taken. Not to mention the bud which aborted weeks ago, never opened and kinda sunk back into the fuzz a bit (areole visible between dried flowers at roughly 11 ‘clock and 12 o’clock.

But what do I know? Am noob.


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #27913523 - 08/22/22 10:58 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Are Huizache variants known to be self sterile? In any case it nice that it's at least giving you some pups. The flower looks more white with thinner petals on this guy's Huizache compared to your #3 beauty.

Quote:

chums of chance said:

This cactus was the huizache... Flower is different then other lophs, but still can be pollinated with others I think. Still this produce easily seeds and grow offshoots the way when offshoot got away with root from mother plants and can be instantly taken and grown as new plant on their own.


At pic are still pup visible, it basically have those pups but they're very much offshoots what have their own long taproot.





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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27913551 - 08/22/22 11:41 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

There seems to be a history of academic debate, since Huizache is more of a locale than variety . But at this  Link among other places, I’ve seen it discussed that “…It is not known if these Tamaulipan plants are also similar to the South Texas plants in terms of their fertility (self-fertile) or if they are more like the El Huizache plants that known to be self-sterile (next image below) or if they lie somewhere in between…”

I grew a few “Huizache El Coyote” plants, but lost all labels last year, so honestly don’t know if these are the huizaches or not. They don’t particularly resemble many of the other huizaches I’ve seen photos of, and you’re right, the flowers are distinctly different from the one you quote. But for all I know, my vendor was selling hybridized seed without noting it, and so perhaps they’re only part Huizache, genetically. Maybe the accelerated growth as a result of grafting has swollen them outside normal appearance for a Huizache type that is hard grown in nature, and would otherwise look different.

Maybe they’re Huizache, maybe they’re hybrids, maybe they’re self fertile hybrids, maybe Huizache aren’t really self sterile at all. I don’t know. Mostly just surprised by the number of flowers in such a short season. Could still be too early to tell…maybe I’ll get a whole bushel of fruits…just updating on what I observe mostly, and some stream of consciousness thoughts for image context. Not really a scientific report. I appreciate the photo for comparison though, thanks friend.


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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27919662 - 08/26/22 11:35 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

my add and lack of adult level patience means i can never grow these majestic creatures.

they are so cool looking, almost like they have existed this way for eon after eon.

watching the stars go by and civilizations rise and fall.

can a peyote cacti in the wild die of old age?


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InvisibleMelliferous
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Penroc3] * 1
    #27919833 - 08/26/22 02:09 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Penroc3 said:
can a peyote cacti in the wild die of old age?



Not to my knowledge and I've talked to a lot of old timers.


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"No, I don't worry. I tell you, I am a man who believed that I died 20 years ago, and I live like a man who is dead already. I have no fear, whatsoever, of anybody or anything."


Edited by Melliferous (08/26/22 02:09 PM)


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Melliferous] * 3
    #27922341 - 08/28/22 09:58 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)





P3F4 (above) opened at the exact same time, and has now been crossed with P1F7 (below). A second chance at my most hoped-for cross. And this time, neither flower has been selfed first, since they opened same day.





Also visible is the bud for P1F8, still maturing


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
San Mescalito
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Registered: 05/09/12
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Loc: Zone 13
Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler] * 1
    #27922687 - 08/28/22 02:54 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

sadly unless you manually immaculate the flowers before opening they will self pollinate. Unless you have southern localities which are self sterile or is it northern... crossing doesn't work unless you know how and even then there is a chance it selfed


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: modern.shaman]
    #27923032 - 08/28/22 06:47 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

So how does one go about cross pollination? Do you have to peel off some of the petals to apply pollen with a blade of grass, swab, or toothpick prior to opening? I know that's how I do it with apple blossoms, but I'm comparing apples to lophos in this regards.

@ Egon,
Is'nt this your 3rd or 4th cross you've been able to do this season? Any signs that they're producing seed or does it take a while to show? Either way, you should be proud of what you've accomplished so far.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad] * 1
    #27923735 - 08/29/22 09:18 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

modern.shaman said:
sadly unless you manually immaculate the flowers before opening they will self pollinate. Unless you have southern localities which are self sterile or is it northern... crossing doesn't work unless you know how and even then there is a chance it selfed




I’d be thrilled if every single flower I’ve gotten this season successfully self-fertilized without my intervention. I suspect however that the two plants shown above may be a Huizache (southern locality) variety which is self-sterile. Not entire sure, lost labels lastyear.

I’m not actually attempting cross pollination to hybridize varieties/localities. But just cross-pollinate in the strictest sense of using pollen from one plant to fertilize another, the two of which appear to me to be of the same type. (If both Huizache, crossing should theoretically be successful, while a cross between a northern and a southern would be less likely or impossible). And I use “self” to mean “intentionally selfed, manually by me with a brush, rather than leave to chance.” As I said, I suspect I might have a couple self-sterile examples here. But admittedly am a noob, and could be totally off.


Quote:

Koenraad said:
So how does one go about cross pollination?…

…Any signs that they're producing seed or does it take a while to show? Either way, you should be proud of what you've accomplished so far.




Yeah, brushing the pollen gently from the anthers up onto the stigma, using a small soft brush or a swab.

And no, today is day 53 since first flower was manually selfed, and at this time i still have no signs of fruit. No idea if any of the flowers will fruit, or if any fruit will produce seed, or if any seed will be viable & germinate. But 56 days or so has been suggested as an average timeline for fruit to emerge.



Just today I noticed that flower #1 from plant #1, first flower I got (long ago closed up and dried) has fallen off in its own. Maybe this means a fruit is trying to emerge from beneath the wool at the areole. But I can’t see anything in there…I’ve read the flowers, if fertilized, will hang on til a fruit emerges, and sometimes are even still stuck on the end of mature fruits…so having fallen off, maybe this is an indication that first pollination attempt was not successful. But maybe it means I’ll see a fruit any day now. Fingers crossed

Dunno…


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Invisiblestagger
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler] * 2
    #27924000 - 08/29/22 12:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

recovering nicely after going columnar for a bit


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InvisibleMelliferous
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: stagger] * 1
    #27924660 - 08/29/22 07:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Is that a hidden graft to tricho? looks great!


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Invisiblestagger
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Melliferous]
    #27924745 - 08/29/22 08:17 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Yes, lol, thanks


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: stagger]
    #27925578 - 08/30/22 10:13 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stagger said:
recovering nicely after going columnar for a bit




Hose long was that on pereskiopsis prior to grafting on tricho? I don't think I've seen a lopho so tall in stature before.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad] * 1
    #27925673 - 08/30/22 11:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)



P1F8 opened, manually selfed.



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Invisiblestagger
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27925757 - 08/30/22 12:31 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Koenraad, I can't remember 100% but I think that was a pup from a bigger graft just right onto that stock, which is a pup of a larger stock plant (js350).  The graft itself is just about 2 years.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
San Mescalito
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: stagger] * 1
    #27933400 - 09/04/22 10:30 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Proof of Concept for Harvesting Peyote Graft



I'd like different opinions on this... flat grafts have always been shown but this way the plant remains growing and you shouldn't in theory affect seed production nor slow down maturity.


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OfflineSYF8
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Registered: 11/16/19
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: modern.shaman]
    #27933848 - 09/04/22 03:30 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I’ve decided I need to try my hand at growing some Loph, any suggestions on where to start?  PM please if you have some direction.  :cheers:


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Loc: Zone 13
Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: modern.shaman]
    #27934063 - 09/04/22 05:50 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

On a video someone mentioned that this 'technique' is pretty much a "crown cut" that 

"its called a crown cut never saw it before but i know its a "common" collection tec with much less recovery time for the plant. there is a tool kind of like an apple corer they use but thats where the info stops."

Anyone have any info on this?


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