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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27886776 - 08/02/22 11:15 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Oh yeah, in the background you can make out the reflective material I’ve lined my small indoor grow space with. It serves as a DIY grow tent primarily for germinating trichocereus seeds under some fluorescent tubes and on a heating mat, but the one loph plant has lived in there ever since those seeds were sown a little over a year ago.  But since it’s a space that rotates through a few trays/containers of tricho seedlings every year, the lights are just set to a 16hrs on/8hrs off timer schedule every day. I’ve found it’s a good schedule that doesn’t require adjustment for the tricho’s, since I can easily raise or lower the lights as needed, or add a little tissue paper to the tops of a container lid to filter/shade as needed.

Because my pereskiopsis mother plants are so regularly cut down to propagate outdoors, or use to as grafting stock, it has never flowered (though I have seen a few images online of mature flowering pereskiopsis plants, but it seems pretty rare).

For the first few months after a new graft, the stock will definitely attempt to branch new shoots off of the highest nodes below the grafts and I constantly have to pinch or cut them off, exactly as you say: to direct resources to the scion. But after a few months, they slow down and branch much less and eventually stop. I haven’t had an offshoot appear on these older lophs in a very long time. Some of my oldest (outdoor tricho) grafts have even dropped all leaves off the rootstock, and I expect that eventually some (if not all) of both the lophs and trichos will require degrafting once the pere rootstock is spent. I’m propagating some PC pachanoi currently just so I can  be prepared for when it’s needed.


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27887386 - 08/02/22 07:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Did I just understand you right, you've grafted a tricho on top of a pereskiopsis rootstock? That's got to be some kind of balancing act for that one. At what point is the rootstock spent? I presume for lophs it when it being engulfed by pups or the mother, or does the pereskiopsis just stall out? My understanding so far of the process is:
1. Germinate seeds and grow until large enough to be scions.
2. Graft to pereskiopsis to bulk up size at a faster rate.
3. Propagate for pups and seeds
4. Cut lopho from rootstock, callus and plant, or graft again to trichos.
5. Grow till tap root is same diameter as above so below.
6. Harvest or continue for larger size
My apologies of my ignorance on the subject, but I'm on here to learn from others that have come before me and if I have a mind to pick, I most certainly will.


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InvisibleFeroxx
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27888464 - 08/03/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

degrafts do not grow tap roots i think


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InvisibleMelliferous
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Feroxx]
    #27888586 - 08/03/22 06:14 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Feroxx said:
degrafts do not grow tap roots i think



They eventually form tap roots after they've built all the feeder roots. Takes a couple years though.


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"No, I don't worry. I tell you, I am a man who believed that I died 20 years ago, and I live like a man who is dead already. I have no fear, whatsoever, of anybody or anything."


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Melliferous] * 3
    #27890818 - 08/05/22 08:14 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)



Fave babe opened her first flower. I only a little disappointed to say that is just a couple days too late to attempt to cross, as the flowers on the first two plants have already closed up.



Even though it be like that sometimes, it’s not getting me down. All in all, this makes 7 flowers I’ve been able to pollinate in the past few weeks! Development of new buds seems to be slowing, but summer is not over yet. So maybe some of my other plants will want to join the big girl’s club.

will update when/if any of these bear fruit.
:peyotespectrum:


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27890964 - 08/05/22 10:47 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Gorgeous! Do you save the pollen from other flowers to crossbreed on later flowers or does lophophora pollen not keep well? I know this is done with cannabis and swabs are kept in the fridge for when ready. Beautiful ladies you got there.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27890980 - 08/05/22 11:04 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Man, I was just thinking about that this week. I have not tried to save any pollen this year, but I really should read about it. I had been under the impression that most williamsii were self fertile, so I didn’t see much of a reason to try to save any. I was just selfing all the flowers that opened, and crossing any time two were open at the same time. But then I read earlier this week that some huizache varieties are in fact self sterile and require crossing. Some of my plants are “huizache el Coyote” but I lost all the labels. And don’t know which plants are which variety. So it’s possible that none of the flowers I selfed this year will fruit. 

A friend of mine saves Tricho pollen, but those flowers are huge and produce sooo much pollen, entirely different beast, I wasn’t sure if it could be done the same way with loph pollen. But maybe sterilize some swabs, go into the flowers and then dry the swab for a day before storage. I have no idea about the longevity even under ideal storage conditions.

Something I need to learn more about for sure l, since some of my plants likely require crossing. Would need to number all the plants, number all the swabs and keep detailed notes and dates, to prevent any accidental swabbing of a flower with pollen saved from an earlier flower on the same exact plant.


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Edited by Egon_Spengler (08/05/22 12:25 PM)


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27893038 - 08/06/22 09:31 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

36 hours ago Egon_Spengler said:

Development of new buds seems to be slowing




LOL, I don’t know shit




I ain’t complainin, but boy do I feel dumb
:lol:


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27893052 - 08/06/22 09:54 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

It's better to underestimate and come out ahead, than to over estimate and come up short. Stash some of that pollen to experiment with for another time. I'm interested to see how it turns out.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad] * 3
    #27894875 - 08/08/22 03:55 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

3 month timelapse of lophophora williamsii seedlings


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: modern.shaman]
    #27894992 - 08/08/22 06:15 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Cool watching the colors change as they grow and adjust to light exposure


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler] * 3
    #27903106 - 08/14/22 11:58 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

:imback:





Plant #1 opened up flower #6, just selfed.  Whoop. Plant #3 (background left) has two more buds forming,#s 2 & 3, one might even open in time for me to cross…needs to happen tomorrow or next day, though if I’m gonna have a shot. We’ll see…


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27903156 - 08/14/22 12:58 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Sweet, do you have just the six to cross between? Also when they do bloom do they bloom multiple times during the season or just the once?


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27903206 - 08/14/22 01:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

In total, lots of plants, mostly outside; but these are the only three to have flowered. Plant 1, 6 flowers opened. Plant 2, 1 flower opened, plant 3, 1 opened with two buds forming.

Most have opened and closed alone, without being able to be crossed. Only a couple have open and had the timing overlap with another plant so that they could be crossed.

This is the first season any of them have been mature enough to flower, so I’m really not sure how long this might go on before they start to settle back down into a vegetative growth stage. I had thought a couple weeks ago that they were mostly done for the summer, then these 3 new buds started popping up.

I’m at 38 days since first pollination, so I’m hoping in the next 3-4 weeks I might see a fruit begin to emerge from beneath the dried up flowers.


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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler] * 2
    #27903381 - 08/14/22 04:16 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

A week after taking the fruit off, this one flowered again!


It's mostly white with a faint pink stripe down the middle of the petals. It's self fertile though, so I'm pretty sure it's williamsii. I'm not the best at loph id, it's kind of tricky compared to trichocereus...for me anyways.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: hummingbird]
    #27903397 - 08/14/22 04:30 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

hummingbird said:





A beauty, I love the contrast of the faint color on the petals and the brightness of the stigma/anthers


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OfflineKoenraad
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27903684 - 08/14/22 09:46 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Egon_Spengler said:
In total, lots of plants, mostly outside; but these are the only three to have flowered. Plant 1, 6 flowers opened. Plant 2, 1 flower opened, plant 3, 1 opened with two buds forming.

Most have opened and closed alone, without being able to be crossed. Only a couple have open and had the timing overlap with another plant so that they could be crossed.

This is the first season any of them have been mature enough to flower, so I’m really not sure how long this might go on before they start to settle back down into a vegetative growth stage. I had thought a couple weeks ago that they were mostly done for the summer, then these 3 new buds started popping up.

I’m at 38 days since first pollination, so I’m hoping in the next 3-4 weeks I might see a fruit begin to emerge from beneath the dried up flowers.



Wow, your #1 sure is busy being pretty with 6 flowers. Do you notice if ones that have less flowers produce pups more and vice versa? Are they all relatively around the same age from when you grafted them since this is the first season they've been mature enough to flower?


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Koenraad]
    #27903948 - 08/15/22 07:35 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Koenraad said:

Wow, your #1 sure is busy being pretty with 6 flowers. Do you notice if ones that have less flowers produce pups more and vice versa? Are they all relatively around the same age from when you grafted them since this is the first season they've been mature enough to flower?




Yep, that’s exactly what I’ve noticed.  This is that same group I was telling you about a couple weeks ago when we were chatting about hrs of light per day:

Quote:

Egon_Spengler said:
One interesting thing I’ve noticed: the three that are flowering are also the three largest, which have produced either the fewest number of, or smallest-sized pups. All my other plants began pupping very early after grafting and even though they’ve been outside all the time, show no indication yet of flowering, as though the plants are dedicating more resources to vegetative growth through division, bulking up by producing lots of offshoots, rather than bulking up a single central “stem”. Some of these “mothers” may have been delayed in flowering by the fact that I removed a few rounds of pups here and there for more graft scions. But some have never been touched, and just keep pupping under otherwise consistent conditions to those that started to flower.

This observation leads me to hypothesize that light levels are only one variable in how early a plant may be mature enough to flower, and that genetics factors (like predisposition to pupping) are likely to play a more important role.  …Just a guess though…





And yes, while I’ve had a few pups that I’ve separated from their mothers and grafted in their own, all of the larger/older individuals come from a batch which were grafted on the same day.


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InvisibleEgon_Spengler
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27904111 - 08/15/22 09:54 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

:superthrust:

They did it, y’all! This is exactly the cross I’ve been hoping I’d get a chance to attempt.


Plant 3, Flower 2, my fave babe. My chunkiest, fastest growing gal (who had previously opened her first flower just a tad too late to be crossed) has been brushed with pollen from plant 1 flower 6, from my first-to-flower, and most floriferous plant.



P1F6 (background right) was selfed yesterday, but the reverse-cross was also attempted. Also visible in this bottom pic is plant 3’s third bud still growing. None of the other plants have any visible buds forming, so it’s likely that timing will require it to be selfed. I’ll keep you posted when it pops off.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Loph Growers Unite! [Re: Egon_Spengler]
    #27904420 - 08/15/22 02:22 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I apologize for going off-topic here but does anybody know what happened to MeanGreen? He vanished apparently (from various platforms) quite a while ago and i've been missing that guy ever since. :frown: not sure where else to look or ask


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