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Offlinesensigrow
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Shiitake Block Question?
    #12591507 - 05/19/10 01:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi:smile:

Recently I started my first project into mushroom cultivation! I purchased an All American 925 along with cubes spores, shiitake, and blue oyster culture syringes.

Right now i have some cube rye jars going. Also I made liquid cultures of the cubes, shiitakes, and blue oysters. I decided to start with cubes since there is so much more information out there on them, and because they are supposedly easy to grow. I am really getting into mushroom cultivation to grow edible/gourmet mushroom though!

I really want to grow out some of my Shiitake liquid culture:smile: I have Roger Rabbits videos (thanks Roger Rabit!) and want to use the sawdust/woodchips tek in substrate bags as per those instructions. 

So here are my questions...

Since I have a glove box and not a flow hood (and since I'm a newb LOL) I was trying to stay away from doing grain to grain transfers. In the videos RR sets up the substrate bags using tyvek sleeves so that he can transfer colonized rye grain into the substrate bags. Since I am trying to avoid opening the substrate bags once sterilized (I have pre-sealable bags) , I am wondering if i can inoculate the sawdust/woodchip bags straight with my liquid culture (skipping the rye and the G2G transfer).

- Will inoculating the bags with liquid culture work?
- Or is the rye step necessary for proper colonization?
- I have both medium and large substrate bags. If I fill them 2/3 full, how much CC's of LC(its already pretty thick) would be recommended for those bags.


I know there are a couple of similar threads, but they have differing opinions on slightly different scenarios. I want to ask these questions as they particularly pertain to me, and also introduce myself!


Thanks for spending time to answers my questions. I will post my progress, in this thread, as I start my Shiitake project:smile:

I do have another thread, following my cube project, if interested as well.


Thanks!


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: sensigrow]
    #12591727 - 05/19/10 02:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

welcome to the board.

Yes you can go direct to the bulk substrate with a liquid culture and a syringe.  However, i find that it is not as successful and that it takes longer to recover and start to colonize than with grain spawn.

5-10 ml of liquid should be okay.  Maybe more I ahve tied up to 50ml but find that because i am injecting into a compacted bag, that you need multiple holes and sometimes it leaks out.


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OfflineMomofo
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: solumvita]
    #12591817 - 05/19/10 02:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

it works fine for me
lay it on its back and pull the plastic upward ...so that you can blow lots toward the bottom of the bag.
make a circle with a sharpy where the insertion hole will be....as its easy to loose the hole....somewhere below the filter works well for me
Try not to move the bag when doing the inoculation.....that keeps it from drawing in air through the hole

seal the hole with tape immediatly afterwards....use lots of liquid



Flip the bag over and repeat the process......


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Offlinesensigrow
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: Momofo]
    #12591958 - 05/19/10 02:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the prompt replies! I think what I will do is....  both. LOL

I will start a couple of rye jars and take a stab at the grain transfers in some of the bags(now I got to order tyvek sleeves though) -and- do some straight liquid culture inoculations directly into the other substrate bags... (but not both in one bag). I figure it would be a good learning experience, and I can see the difference in colonization speed (or contamination LOL)

Momofo, I am a little unclear about blowing air towards the bottom of the bag. Are you saying that you use a flow hood? Because I don't have one, just a still air box. But you are directly inoculating your substrate with liquid culture though, correct? Thanks!


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OfflineMomofo
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: sensigrow]
    #12592269 - 05/19/10 03:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I meant blow the liquid out the syringe.......you can squirt it several feet ....sorry about that
So from one hole you are able to spray just about anywhere .....
when you elevate the plastic first(like a tent)....it helps with that...you'll figure it out

also...I do open air grain transfers outside.....right after a big ass rain....the air is pretty dam clean after a good downpour


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Invisiblecaphillkid
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: Momofo]
    #12592437 - 05/19/10 04:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Just a suggestion, you might want to test out some of your LCs on jars before taking the plunge and inoculating large bags.  If your LC is not clean, you'll end up throwing a lot of crap out and wasting time and money.


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Offlinesensigrow
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: caphillkid]
    #12593611 - 05/19/10 07:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sweet! Thanks guys


Momofo - That makes sense! I get it now LOL.

caphillkid - Thanks. I'm going to knock up a couple of quart (test)jars in the next couple of days. If everything goes well, I will use those to try my hand at some grain to bulk bag transfers.



After my test jars colonize I will try straight LC and the grain transfers at roughly the same time (probably 2 weeks). I'll post my results then:smile:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: sensigrow]
    #12594660 - 05/19/10 10:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If you're going to skip making grain spawn, you should put about 1/2 cup of hydrated grains on top of the sawdust before sterilization.  This way, you'll squirt the LC directly onto the grains.  Don't shake until the grains are colonized and then shake to distribute them throughout the sawdust.
RR


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Offlinesensigrow
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12598508 - 05/20/10 04:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sweet! Thanks Roger Rabbit. Love the videos:smile:

I prepared and PC'd my grains this morning (RR rye grain tek)for the test jars of Shiitake LC. I'll inoculate tonight. Once those colonize, I'll prepare the half of my bulk substrate normal(RR sawdust/woodchip tek) and half the way RR just said to do it.

I'll do grain transfers with the "normal RR tek", and straight LC using RR's advice.

I'll post some pics of the test jars, once (if LOL)they colonize, then pics comparing the 2 methods when I go to bulk...


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OfflineFungi01
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: sensigrow]
    #12607349 - 05/22/10 01:45 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I skip the sawdust and prefer wood stove pellets they are much cleaner and often i can skip pressure cooking them if using a agressive spawn


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Offlinesensigrow
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: Fungi01]
    #12615468 - 05/23/10 07:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks Fungi01:smile: I actually planned on using wood stove pellets all along. I thought those were the same thing?

I inoculated 2 quart rye jars Friday with my Shiitake Karo LC. They both have started to grow! No signs of contamination yet. I'll post some pics in a few days.  Hopefully in 2 weeks I'll be ready to transfer to bulk! :smile:


I think I'll try 8 large bulk bags for my first Shiitake grow...

4 bags - Grain->Sawdust/Woodchips using 1/2 quart spawn per bag... These will be made with tyvek sleeve, so they can be opened.
4 bags - LC->Sawdust/Woodchips + rye on top... These will be sealed with an impulse sealer prior to sterilization.

Also, I ordered some tyvek sleeves to make the bags as per RR's instructions (for the ones I will do grain transfers on). I was wondering though, cant I just make 3 small folds in the top of the Spawn Bag (kind of like rolling up a dry bag) then tape it shut? My bags are presealable so I think that making an airtight fold at the top, with masking tape, would suffice to keep it stearile,yet alow me to open it later...

Thanks!:smile:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: sensigrow]
    #12616432 - 05/23/10 11:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The tyvek is 100%.  I've left supplemented sawdust bags for over a month before inoculating with tyvek inserted as shown in the video.  Personally, I wouldn't make up a batch without them and I make hundreds per week(actually, mrs rabbit does-it's her job).  Failure is more expensive than the ten seconds it takes to insert the tyvek sleeve into the bag before folding.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinesensigrow
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Re: Shiitake Block Question? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12616820 - 05/24/10 12:03 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks! I ordered the tyvek sleeves last week:smile: They should be in way before I need them.


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