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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 717
Last seen: 2 years, 14 days
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Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow.
#12593786 - 05/19/10 06:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't have a thermometer so I can't measure the temp, would it be a problem if I throw it in a pot and let it simmer for 60 minutes or so? With some coir and verm? Thanks!
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12593794 - 05/19/10 06:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: I don't have a thermometer so I can't measure the temp, would it be a problem if I throw it in a pot and let it simmer for 60 minutes or so? With some coir and verm? Thanks!
Im sure that would exceed the pasteurization temps, just buy a meat thermometer
Going past the pasteurization temps will increase your contam rate
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 08:24 PM)
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12593830 - 05/19/10 06:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Compared toQuote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
Bentley said: I don't have a thermometer so I can't measure the temp, would it be a problem if I throw it in a pot and let it simmer for 60 minutes or so? With some coir and verm? Thanks!
Im sure that would exceed the pasteurization temps, just by a meat thermometer
Going past the pasteurization temps will increase your contam rate
Compared to what?
No pastuerization at all?
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: teknix]
#12593854 - 05/19/10 06:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Compared toQuote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
Bentley said: I don't have a thermometer so I can't measure the temp, would it be a problem if I throw it in a pot and let it simmer for 60 minutes or so? With some coir and verm? Thanks!
Im sure that would exceed the pasteurization temps, just by a meat thermometer
Going past the pasteurization temps will increase your contam rate
Compared to what?
No pastuerization at all?
Compared to properly pasteurizing it, or not forking out 4 bucks to get a meat thermometer, and not pasteurizing at all
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 06:20 PM)
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m00nshine
ÜBER SHAMAN




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Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12593911 - 05/19/10 06:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, get a meat thermometer. It's only like $10. And get a pillowcase, too, it just makes it easier, and you can actually do it correctly IME going over the recommended temps will fuck you over sometimes.
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badman


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: m00nshine]
#12593932 - 05/19/10 06:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would not use the pillow case method it blows and is messy. Use the
 tek.
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12593954 - 05/19/10 06:37 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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badman


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594041 - 05/19/10 06:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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AKA the
 tek
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: badman]
#12594086 - 05/19/10 07:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
badman said: AKA the
 tek
Yes, as you already stated
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 717
Last seen: 2 years, 14 days
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594196 - 05/19/10 07:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I can't buy a thermometer right now and I needed to take care of this tonight. Also, all my jars are being occupied right now. Would letting my water boil then throwing it in there and turning off the heat pasteurize it? Putting the lid on would keep the temps pretty high but not sterilizing it. Damion's tek for coir seems to work well, its the same thing but with a pc. No?
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594233 - 05/19/10 07:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Well, I can't buy a thermometer right now and I needed to take care of this tonight. Also, all my jars are being occupied right now. Would letting my water boil then throwing it in there and turning off the heat pasteurize it? Putting the lid on would keep the temps pretty high but not sterilizing it. Damion's tek for coir seems to work well, its the same thing but with a pc. No?
Coir and manure are 2 different things. Mold has a hard time germinating on coir you mainly pasteurize it to break it down and make it easier for the myc to consume so you could boil coir or do the jar method.
Manure has beneficial microbes and Bactria that are destroyed when you surpass the pasteurization temps
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ukshroomer
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594280 - 05/19/10 07:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok. I would not use the pillow case method either. It is very messy and requires a lot of time for draining. Not to mention the moisture content might not be very accurate. A good way to pasteurize without a meat thermometer is to:
1. Load the substrate into glass jars (after hydrating).
2. Put them in your pressure cooker and add cold water until they are 2/3 submerged.
3. Turn on your stove to high.
4. Let the water boil for 10-15 minutes.
5. Shut off stove and cover pc.
6. Wait until the next day and spawn.
(This is more or less how RogerRabbit does it is in his teks and videos. I also like this method because you can use it to accurately calculate your spawn:bulksubstrate ratio in terms of volume which is very informative and convenient)
This method has been shown to work most of the time without a meat thermometer but you should consider getting one when you have the cash because it ensures that pasteurization temperature are achieved and it also has many other uses for around the home.
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Bentley



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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594309 - 05/19/10 07:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok, for instance, you don't have a thermometer nor an oven. If that was your only resort how would you try doing it? Again, hypothetically speaking.
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ukshroomer
Law Abider


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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594361 - 05/19/10 07:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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do you have access to a stove?
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594369 - 05/19/10 07:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Ok, for instance, you don't have a thermometer nor an oven. If that was your only resort how would you try doing it? Again, hypothetically speaking.
There is no way if you have no way of knowing the temps
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594516 - 05/19/10 08:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes an electric stove top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simmering
According to chefs, water simmers at 180 degrees. Should I go for a simmer? Maybe 40 minutes? Why 40, who knows..
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Shea25
Just some guy



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Posts: 7,772
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594525 - 05/19/10 08:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Yes an electric stove top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simmering
According to chefs, water simmers at 180 degrees. Should I go for a simmer? Maybe 40 minutes? Why 40, who knows.. 
I think you have to re read that link
The appropriate simmering temperature is a topic of debate among chefs, with some contending that a simmer is as low as 82°C (180°F).
you know that's to hot already and that as low as chefs think simmering is
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 08:21 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594531 - 05/19/10 08:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Should I go for a simmer? Maybe 40 minutes? Why 40, who knows.
No, you should go to the store and pony up five bucks for a meat thermometer.
Don't ask how to do something wrong, but rather how to do it right, which has already been posted above. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Bentley



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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12594606 - 05/19/10 08:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well RR you said coir and manure have the same nutritional value, I guess that's my last resort. Coir/verm would lawn and garden lime be a substitute for gypsum? Or atleast have some nutritional value?
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Shea25
Just some guy



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Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594629 - 05/19/10 08:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Well RR you said coir and manure have the same nutritional value, I guess that's my last resort. Coir/verm would lawn and garden lime be a substitute for gypsum? Or atleast have some nutritional value?
Gypsum is calcium sulfate It's alot different them Lime.
Do NOT use lime in your bulk grow it will increase the PH and myc likes a lower PH
Coir and Manure are both great, but you should always pasteurize manure or you will kill off beneficial microbes. Coir on the other hand is pasteurized to help break it down making easier for the myc
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 08:41 PM)
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Bentley



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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594724 - 05/19/10 08:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks Shea! How does a coir/verm sub sound?
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√


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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594726 - 05/19/10 08:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
Bentley said: Well RR you said coir and manure have the same nutritional value, I guess that's my last resort. Coir/verm would lawn and garden lime be a substitute for gypsum? Or atleast have some nutritional value?
Gypsum is calcium sulfate It's alot different them Lime.
Hydrated lime is calcium carbonate.
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12594731 - 05/19/10 09:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
Bentley said: Well RR you said coir and manure have the same nutritional value, I guess that's my last resort. Coir/verm would lawn and garden lime be a substitute for gypsum? Or atleast have some nutritional value?
Gypsum is calcium sulfate It's alot different them Lime.
Hydrated lime is calcium carbonate.

No its not
hydrated lime is Calcium hydroxide
Calcium carbonate is in oyster shells pearls egg shells
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 09:02 PM)
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hamloaf
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594735 - 05/19/10 09:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Thanks Shea! How does a coir/verm sub sound?
If you don't mind me chiming in, coir/verm is excellent. Add gypsum at 10 perctent to your coir/verm.
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594742 - 05/19/10 09:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Calcium carbonate Caco3 is heated up to 900C for a few hours that drives off the co2 turning it into Calcium oxide, they add that to water and wait till the water evaporates now you have Calcium hydroxide
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594746 - 05/19/10 09:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Thanks Shea! How does a coir/verm sub sound?
Sounds great if you can find gypsum use it
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hamloaf
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594750 - 05/19/10 09:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
Shea25 said:
Quote:
Bentley said: Well RR you said coir and manure have the same nutritional value, I guess that's my last resort. Coir/verm would lawn and garden lime be a substitute for gypsum? Or atleast have some nutritional value?
Gypsum is calcium sulfate It's alot different them Lime.
Hydrated lime is calcium carbonate.

No its not
hydrated lime is Calcium hydroxide
Calcium carbonate is in oyster shells pearls egg shells
You are are correct. My fault I had it crossed between Crushed oyster shells
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Bentley



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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12594801 - 05/19/10 09:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is a small portion on the back of the "Lawn and garden lime" bag.

I also have no gypsum.
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594805 - 05/19/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: This is a small portion on the back of the "Lawn and garden lime" bag.

I also have no gypsum.
Dont use lime period in bulk
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√


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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594825 - 05/19/10 09:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12594858 - 05/19/10 09:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Being that its 90% Calcium Carbonate or at least equivalent too, why not? Just out of curiosity.
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12594870 - 05/19/10 09:31 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Being that its 90% Calcium Carbonate or at least equivalent too, why not? Just out of curiosity.
Because hydrated lime and Calcium carbonate are used to lower the PH of casing to a alkaline state thats all. Myc does not like alkaline
Gypsum is used to increase your overall fruiting performance without changing the PH
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12595006 - 05/19/10 09:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is gypsum at my local ACE, but its in the plaster and cement mix section. I was told its supposed to be in the garden area. I don't know if its the same thing
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12595019 - 05/19/10 09:56 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: There is gypsum at my local ACE, but its in the plaster and cement mix section. I was told its supposed to be in the garden area. I don't know if its the same thing 
Gypsum from plaster of paris is fine just spread it out and let it dry then use
Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 10:11 PM)
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Shea25]
#12595093 - 05/19/10 10:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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When you say fry, you mean?
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
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Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12595100 - 05/19/10 10:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dry it was a typo
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12595122 - 05/19/10 10:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: This is a small portion on the back of the "Lawn and garden lime" bag.

The search engine here is your friend. It's been posted hundreds of times to stay below 2% Mg when using lime, and that's why 'garden lime' is not used in CASING LAYERS. It's not used at all in substrates. Use gypsum at up to ten percent by volume, but in reality 5% or even a tad less results in darned good performance. I've dropped down to 3% gypsum by volume in my sawdust blocks and there was no decrease in performance. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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hamloaf
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12596499 - 05/20/10 06:36 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: 'garden lime' is not used in CASING LAYERS. It's not used at all in substrates. RR
RR. This is a contradiction. http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Casing-Layer-Preparation
You also recommended hydrated lime in your Straw Pasteurization video to control PH swings in your straw substrates but you have cut that out of your sample clips. I am not a stranger to cowpoo/straw and the pillow case tek http://www.shroomery.org/5213/What-is-a-good-way-to-pasteurize-straw-and-dung and was gonna combine the way you pasteurize your straw and your horse manure for my next straw dung substrate and inoculate with yellow oyster rye grain spawn in a laundry basket. I don't like the pillow case tek because you so obviously bleed out all those beneficials.
I have used this casing recipe a few times. http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek
So which methods do you ultimately prefer? What are you currently using that gives you the most success?
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Use gypsum at up to ten percent by volume, but in reality 5% or even a tad less results in darned good performance. I've dropped down to 3% gypsum by volume in my sawdust blocks and there was no decrease in performance. RR
This is intriguing.
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whyblameus
on a mission



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Loc: Ca,Ga,Id wanna trade LOL
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12596539 - 05/20/10 07:00 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: I don't like the pillow case tek because you so obviously bleed out all those beneficials.
use that water to soak your grain in. and give your straw a presoak in it before mixing with the the manure. you can use it as the water for pf cakes. you could pasteurize a brick of coir with a gallon of it boiled.
whatever you do dont waist it.
i like the pillowcase method but i just put it in a bucket with boiling water and weight it down then put the lid and leave it for 2 hours.
i like easy
-------------------- if you dont got no one to hate on feel free to hate on me!
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hamloaf
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: whyblameus]
#12596588 - 05/20/10 07:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with all of what you are saying and have considered it as well except for the rye soak. I like that but I figure, why bleed out, why blame us, lol all those beneficials if you don't have to. Keeping all those beneficials in your substrate for your fruiting bodies to feed upon, to me, is superior. I also agree the pillow case method is a snap. Although, I don't mind the extra work or steps it takes to do things the very best of ways. I am a worker.
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whyblameus
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12596618 - 05/20/10 07:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i got a room with 30 monos in it i dont need any extra work.
and dont give me this
cause i left my camera in my friends car last weekend when i was drunk
-------------------- if you dont got no one to hate on feel free to hate on me!
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Bentley



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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: whyblameus]
#12596689 - 05/20/10 07:57 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I waited, Ill be picking up a thermometer today and some gypsum. I'm still not sure what you mean by lay it out and dry. It comes powdered, is there a process I need to do? I can't find garden gypsum anywhere. Ill be doing a manure/coir/verm/gyp. For some reason manure tickles my pickle. 
I also use the search function most of the time, but there are so many mixed opinions on that matter I had to bring it up.
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Doc_T
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12596702 - 05/20/10 08:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Get gypsum at the local garden shop, the big box stores won't have it.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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hamloaf
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: whyblameus]
#12596713 - 05/20/10 08:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
whyblameus said: i got a room with 30 monos in it i dont need any extra work.
and dont give me this
cause i left my camera in my friends car last weekend when i was drunk 
You ain't got no camera so it's; Fishin' stories!
Just kidding. I am not really sure as to your correlation with 30 monotubs and extra work. One thing I can say for sure is, why would you, why blame us, go bragging on an internet forum about 30 monotubs?
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12596718 - 05/20/10 08:07 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: For some reason manure tickles my pickle. 
Because manure is the king of substrates. Horse manure is the king of manures.
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 717
Last seen: 2 years, 14 days
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12596729 - 05/20/10 08:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Doc, I live in the city. I have checked locally with no luck.
Ham, it sure is.
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whyblameus
on a mission



Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 11,440
Loc: Ca,Ga,Id wanna trade LOL
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: hamloaf]
#12596747 - 05/20/10 08:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am not really sure as to your correlation with 30 monotubs and extra work.
extra work as in to pasteurize each sub in a bag on the stove and watch the temp the hole time.instead of putting it in a bucket for 2 hours and coming back.
Quote:
One thing I can say for sure is, why would you, why blame us, go bragging on an internet forum about 30 monotubs?
cause i dont care
-------------------- if you dont got no one to hate on feel free to hate on me!
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whyblameus
on a mission



Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 11,440
Loc: Ca,Ga,Id wanna trade LOL
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: Bentley]
#12596750 - 05/20/10 08:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bentley said: Doc, I live in the city. I have checked locally with no luck.
Ham, it sure is.
calci sand from the pet store.
its right next to the coir at the petco i go to.
thats what i been using.
-------------------- if you dont got no one to hate on feel free to hate on me!
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Bentley



Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 717
Last seen: 2 years, 14 days
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Re: Can manure be pasteurized in a pc? no pillow. [Re: whyblameus]
#12596869 - 05/20/10 09:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's awesome whyblameus! Ill be passing by Pet Supermarket to check it out. First person to tell me I can get it at a pet supply. Thanks!
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