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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12589401 - 05/18/10 10:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

prism, nice tubs, but im going for 4-6 inch fruits though!

im also trying to develop consistency...which is why i started a cloning project, as opposed to spore inoculation.


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

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OfflineDharmatripper
Deceased

Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 291
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: question to the experts [Re: Dharmatripper]
    #12589453 - 05/18/10 10:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Prismism--that albino grow is impressive

See buddha, better sterilize your trash bags or you'll end up with pounds of mushrooms.:wink:


--------------------
This is not me...

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Invisibledrewb149
Male

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 363
Loc: Flag
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12589454 - 05/18/10 10:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buddha420 said:
prism, nice tubs, but im going for 4-6 inch fruits though!

im also trying to develop consistency...which is why i started a cloning project, as opposed to spore inoculation.




if your aiming for bigger fruit you should prolly let it just fruit around the edges.

more fruits=smaller fruits on average.

the mushrooms came out of a 58qt tub with one bag of hmc compost and six quarts of spawn. the tub flushed around the edges for the most part.



the largest fruits were 7-11 inches or so the biggest weighting 8.8gs dry.

oh and i like to wipe my bags down to and i do my spawning in a clean room that gets a oust bomb. it doesnt hurt to take extra steps to reduce your chance of contams

Edited by drewb149 (05/18/10 11:03 PM)

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: drewb149]
    #12589504 - 05/18/10 11:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

here's another example...this is pinning in the middle, but i already know they will abort.



--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

Edited by Buddha420 (05/19/10 05:42 AM)

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OfflineDharmatripper
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Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 291
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12589566 - 05/18/10 11:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If there isn't pinning at all there (center) I would say it's the humidity thing but if pins are forming and then aborting it would make me think your sub is a little dry like whoever was saying earlier.  Your sub only has enough water for so many little friends to grow and will choose the most likely to succeed--the ones near the side with more humidity.


--------------------
This is not me...

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Invisiblemyco.alchemist
been there ~ done that

Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 705
Loc: Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12589761 - 05/18/10 11:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Pinning & growth on an uncased tray usually occurs where the most optimal micro-climate to produce pins & fruits exists. In this case, around the edges of the tray.

I “case" my trays.



LINK to my “casing” guide:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12507354/page/3

To stop side pinning from happening I “case” my trays with the casing cover twice as thick around the edges of the tray. As the substrate shrinks, I add more casing material around the trays edges, to fill that gap.

To re-hydrate a casing, I do not remove the substrate from the tray. I simply pour water around the edges of the tray. Leave it overnight & pour out any excess the next day.

By “casing” you can  have a better degree control where & when pinning occurs.


PINNING


FRUITING

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: myco.alchemist]
    #12594795 - 05/19/10 09:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

myco.alchemist said:
Pinning & growth on an uncased tray usually occurs where the most optimal micro-climate to produce pins & fruits exists. In this case, around the edges of the tray.

I “case" my trays.



LINK to my “casing” guide:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12507354/page/3

To stop side pinning from happening I “case” my trays with the casing cover twice as thick around the edges of the tray. As the substrate shrinks, I add more casing material around the trays edges, to fill that gap.

To re-hydrate a casing, I do not remove the substrate from the tray. I simply pour water around the edges of the tray. Leave it overnight & pour out any excess the next day.

By “casing” you can  have a better degree control where & when pinning occurs.


PINNING


FRUITING




i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

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InvisibleShea25
Just some guy
Male


Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12594798 - 05/19/10 09:14 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Between 7-8 is acceptable. I would not go higher then 75F my self

Casings :thumbdown:

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: Shea25]
    #12594814 - 05/19/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shea25 said:
Between 7-8 is acceptable. I would not go higher then 75F my self

Casings :thumbdown:




ive always incubated at 86F and had amazing results..up untill recently...whats optimal for fruiting? I've always had my fruiting happen at 76F..and its 50/50..sometimes they fruit like on steroids, other times 1-2 inches and thats it. What factors can force the fruits to halt growth?

What does a wrinkly cap mean....dry substrate?


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

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InvisibleShea25
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Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12594828 - 05/19/10 09:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Incubating at 86 was based off of old information. Try incubating big spawn bags and you will see they generate alot of heat them selves

Not only that its a waste of power instead of using room temps 70-75F

I incubate and fruit at at the same temps room temp or whatever my room is at, why complicate the matter

If you had a picture I could tell alot easier

Edited by Shea25 (05/19/10 09:23 PM)

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InvisibleNuminosum
President of Turd Town
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
Re: question to the experts [Re: Shea25]
    #12594894 - 05/19/10 09:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.


--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.



Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: Numinosum]
    #12594951 - 05/19/10 09:43 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.




well yeah..thats what i do, i make a cake out of 4 colonized 1qt rye jars, i cover them with 1 inch of casing mix. incubate covered with foil w/ some holes in it for exactly 7 days. on 7th day i transfer into fc at 76F (from 86F) by that time the casing is about 50% colonized...one time i forgot to transfer into fc on 7th day, i had to do it on 8th, most of the casing was colonized and weird cottony clusters starts forming everywhere...

anyway, whats most optimal fruiting temp?


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShea25
Just some guy
Male


Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12594963 - 05/19/10 09:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buddha420 said:
Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.




well yeah..thats what i do, i make a cake out of 4 colonized 1qt rye jars, i cover them with 1 inch of casing mix. incubate covered with foil w/ some holes in it for exactly 7 days. on 7th day i transfer into fc at 76F (from 86F) by that time the casing is about 50% colonized...one time i forgot to transfer into fc on 7th day, i had to do it on 8th, most of the casing was colonized and weird cottony clusters starts forming everywhere...

anyway, whats most optimal fruiting temp?





Room temp, or if you like dense fruits try a little colder.

The temps are not rocket science don't over focus on them anywhere from 60-70's is fine

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InvisibleNuminosum
President of Turd Town
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12594998 - 05/19/10 09:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

No.... you don't understand...

Quote:

Buddha420 said:

brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?




You see, that means its being colonized, no go.

Heres what you want.

1. Apply your casing layer.

2. Wait until mycelium starts to poke through the casing layer

3. As soon as you see it poking through (around 3 or 4 days) patch over those
spots (sprinkle additional casing mix over the mycelium you can see)

4. After patching place directly to fruit.


--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.



Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Shea25]
    #12595199 - 05/19/10 10:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shea25 said:
Incubating at 86 was based off of old information.




Actually, it was a misinterpretation of old information due to a lack of literacy skills with far too many people. 

What Stamets said in TMC was a mycelium temperature of 86F led to fastest growth.  However, my own tests found any mycelium temp above 83F will actually slow down colonization. 

Considering that a bulk substrate will easily generate ten or more degrees above ambient, you shouldn't colonize above 75F, according to the Stamets figure.  70F is even better.  I keep my colonization room at 60F, because 100% success means more to me than a day or two less colonizing time. 
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinepsilocyborg6311
Stranger
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 34
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: question to the experts [Re: Numinosum]
    #12595333 - 05/19/10 10:55 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.




Agreed. What are you using for a casing layer? A casing layer should be non-nutritive so the mycelium and contaminates do not try to colonize it. If the myc colonizes it the microclimate is eliminated, and if contams grow you have a problem. If you are trying to find something for the substrate to colonize for bigger yields look into Bulk Substrates (then if you want you can case those too)
-Psilo

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: psilocyborg6311]
    #12596334 - 05/20/10 05:26 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shea25 said:
Quote:

Buddha420 said:
Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.




well yeah..thats what i do, i make a cake out of 4 colonized 1qt rye jars, i cover them with 1 inch of casing mix. incubate covered with foil w/ some holes in it for exactly 7 days. on 7th day i transfer into fc at 76F (from 86F) by that time the casing is about 50% colonized...one time i forgot to transfer into fc on 7th day, i had to do it on 8th, most of the casing was colonized and weird cottony clusters starts forming everywhere...

anyway, whats most optimal fruiting temp?





Room temp, or if you like dense fruits try a little colder.

The temps are not rocket science don't over focus on them anywhere from 60-70's is fine




i never incubated at this low of a temp and had good yields...very good yields...



Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Shea25 said:
Incubating at 86 was based off of old information.




Actually, it was a misinterpretation of old information due to a lack of literacy skills with far too many people. 

What Stamets said in TMC was a mycelium temperature of 86F led to fastest growth.  However, my own tests found any mycelium temp above 83F will actually slow down colonization. 

Considering that a bulk substrate will easily generate ten or more degrees above ambient, you shouldn't colonize above 75F, according to the Stamets figure.  70F is even better.  I keep my colonization room at 60F, because 100% success means more to me than a day or two less colonizing time. 
RR




you see, right now my colonization rate is perfect, exactly 7 days for a 1QT jar. Inoculated from another colonized rye jar. at 86F....so in my case the colonization rate isn't slowed at all.

Quote:

psilocyborg6311 said:
Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

i also case my trays...verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular), 1 inch layer.

maybe my casing pH is off...i have it at 7, should i go to 7.5?

also i was told my incubation temp is too high, 86F, so i went down to suggested 80F, lets see if it makes any difference.

nice picture though, yours look like they're growing out of the casing layer you can see the brown soil. When my cake fruits, the mushrooms come out of the mycelium which covers the casing layer entirely...brown is not visible under the white...do you add more casing mix later?





A true "casing" is over top of the colonized substrate. The uncolonized layer creates an ideal 
Micro climate and supplies extra moisture. If you allow the mycelium to colonize this layer,
it can no longer be considered a casing, but instead has been consumed and is now part of the substrate.




Agreed. What are you using for a casing layer? A casing layer should be non-nutritive so the mycelium and contaminates do not try to colonize it. If the myc colonizes it the microclimate is eliminated, and if contams grow you have a problem. If you are trying to find something for the substrate to colonize for bigger yields look into Bulk Substrates (then if you want you can case those too)
-Psilo




verm, pete moss and lime (powdered and granular) 1 inch over the colonized substrate.

in all my cakes, that casing layer always gets colonized, but most of the time i have very good results!

you guys saw the pics i put up...


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

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InvisibleNuminosum
President of Turd Town
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12596379 - 05/20/10 05:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

in all my cakes, that casing layer always gets colonized, but most of the time i have very good results




you started this thread because you want better pinsets.

From what I have seen you have 'okay' results, but I haven't see any canopies


Here read:


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0

I suggest you listen to that ^^^^ if you want to achieve this:


Picture credit; Hyphae


--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.



Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge

Edited by Numinosum (05/20/10 05:51 AM)

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InvisibleBuddha420
Psychonaut


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 411
Loc: Mobil, Alabama
Re: question to the experts [Re: Numinosum]
    #12596523 - 05/20/10 06:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Numinosum said:
Quote:

in all my cakes, that casing layer always gets colonized, but most of the time i have very good results




you started this thread because you want better pinsets.

From what I have seen you have 'okay' results, but I haven't see any canopies


Here read:


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/an/0/page/0

I suggest you listen to that ^^^^ if you want to achieve this:


Picture credit; Hyphae




sometimes the pinsets are amazing, but the ones towards the middle will abort and only ones around the edges mature well.

Whats optimal for fruiting? 75? I also increased my FAE, to about once an hour for 5 minutes...couple days ill see if its doing good or not

i dont use a humidifier in the fruiting area because thats where i work with petri dishes, so i cant let my exhaust such too much moisture out, they used to grow beautiful with exhaust ever 4 hours for 10min.


--------------------
Psychedelic Salon - changing our minds, one thought at a time

Religion - George Carlin, R.I.P.

BLUE CHAMPS!!! Chelsea FC - 09/10

Edited by Buddha420 (05/20/10 07:03 AM)

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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 12 years, 15 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: question to the experts [Re: Buddha420]
    #12598676 - 05/20/10 02:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think you need more moisture in the center of your casings. Try lining with tin foil:

Spray 2 tubs with alcohol and wipe out. Pull peice of tin foil and put between:

Push down to form the foil and remove the top tub and you have a foil lined tub:

If you look closely you can see the tin foil pulls from the edges with the substrate leaving no room for moisture from sprays or whatever to drip down the sides:
Nice even pinsets if you keep you casing layer moist:


It also sounds like your letting the casing layer colonize to much..like so:



Only give it 4 or 5 days instead of 7.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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