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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: deCypher]
    #12588055 - 05/18/10 07:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

But you worry about the future in the present? How do you intend to alter the future in the present?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #12588287 - 05/18/10 07:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Thinking is problematic.




Your getting it! Especially when our thoughts are in a unchangeable past and future. There is only the Now! Breath and smell the flowers! :sunny: Make a conscious effort to stay in that mode of unthinking. Deal with your problems when they are your problems. What problems do you have Now?




I really think you are kidding yourself that you can live in the now for more than a few seconds or minutes at a time. Still I agree in the now there are less problems to confront. Thinking is problematic and something our ancient ancestors likely didn't have to deal with in the way we do. They reacted as animals to immediate stimulus and then moved on. As I said the search for enlightenment imo is a symbolic desire to return to the primitive unthinking or less thinking state that most animals exist in naturally. That's why nature is revered. But along with that unthinking nature is the unthinking violence of survival. I doubt that we could forgo that aspect if most everyone quit thinking. Culture would collapse and with it the support system that makes survival easy and less violent for most.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Evolving]
    #12588309 - 05/18/10 08:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Dogs love to kill, humans love to kill their own kind.  We are MANifestations (or is it, MANinfestations) of God's love of killing (his own kind).




this is why I doubt the existence of a benevolent god and really any god at all. I'm afraid that any god that created our current system would not be a nice guy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLisonAlGaib
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Posts: 1,654
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12588357 - 05/18/10 08:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Love is an evolved survival instinct, I believe all emotions can be traced to a primitive survival instincts.  Love can make someone do the nastiest things, quicker than any other stimulus.  I can rip apart a child molester in a very heinous way to protect my daughters.  It would be the love for my daughters, and that alone, that would make me act this way. 
As for niceness.........nothing more than a social pleasantry that really does not exist tangibly in the real world.

But that's just an opinion..........

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: LisonAlGaib]
    #12588405 - 05/18/10 08:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

While I agree that love is a survival emotion first and foremost I have to disagree about your example of your daughters. Instead I think it is fear that is your prime motivator here. Fear of the lost of that which you value. It's a purely selfish emotion at work. Your love for your daughters is something outside of this example imo.

Everything here is just an opinion. No matter what some would have us believe.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLisonAlGaib
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12588446 - 05/18/10 08:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I understand how it can come off that way, maybe it was a bad example.  I am not motivated by fear.  I am very aware of the fact that my DNA dictates to me everything I do.  The continuity of that DNA is the most basic of survival instincts, as is evolved counterpart in the emotional spectrum, love.

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12588457 - 05/18/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

appleorange said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Identifying with the ego mind is necessary for survival as a living being. You do it and I do it. If we were to disengage from that identification we wouldn't live long even with the support of a culture. That's why the monk begs for food. If he gives up his identification to his physicalness he starves to death.




You're dead on. In the video I posted on the other page, the monk talks about how it is delusional to remain in formless awareness. It would be something akin to Nihilism.

This is why the Buddha talked about the Middle Way. It's acknowleding that all of this is a dream, but knowing that this dream is still our only reality, and it would be downright insane to go around telling people that they do not in fact exist or they are not suffering.


I'll illustrate the middle way in a picture of sorts.


A------------------B------------------C


Point A is where most people live, they believe that the dream is real. Point C is Nirvana/Enlightenment/Formless Awareness and it is seen that nothing exists.

It's impossible to live in point C. You have to live acknowledging that fire burns you, water will not disintegrate you, terrorists blow up buildings. So you live in point B which means that you still live and play in the world of forms, but you are filled with a sense of ease and do not take life so seriously because you realize that none of it is real.





Excellent I agree. I have always been a fan of the middle way.

It still does not answer my OP question however.





Quote:

How this universal consciousness, if it exists, is ultimately love directed?

When walking this morning my big old dog treed a young raccoon. It looked so scared up in that little tree with Kilo trying desperately to get at it. Then I remembered that Kilo is one of the sweetest dogs I've owned and that raccoon would have no trouble tearing into a nest full of young helpless newborn birds. This isn't even taking a hard look at how primates, including and especially humans, behave much of the time.

Now explain to me again how a consciousness that expresses itself in these ways is all about love and niceness? Cause it really doesn't make sense to me. Especially if one is going to claim that this consciousness is very very aware.




I think you're asking how can this consciousness be compassionate when the behavior of other animals is often very cruel or agressive? Is that right?

You're the only person who believes that there are other animals with a consciousness. You see something happening in the "objective world" and believe that it relates to you, but could it be that the objective world is in fact just you?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: LisonAlGaib]
    #12588709 - 05/18/10 09:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LisonAlGaib said:
I understand how it can come off that way, maybe it was a bad example.  I am not motivated by fear.  I am very aware of the fact that my DNA dictates to me everything I do.  The continuity of that DNA is the most basic of survival instincts, as is evolved counterpart in the emotional spectrum, love.




Don't understand what you are saying.:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: appleorange]
    #12588734 - 05/18/10 09:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You're the only person who believes that there are other animals with a consciousness.

That's ridiculous! Almost everyone I know believes other animals are conscious.

And cruel behavior is not limited by any means to other animals. The human animal is imo by far the most violent and cruel.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12588761 - 05/18/10 09:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're the only person who believes that there are other animals with a consciousness.

That's ridiculous! Almost everyone I know believes other animals are conscious.

And cruel behavior is not limited by any means to other animals. The human animal is imo by far the most violent and cruel.




And you're the only person who believes that other people think animals are conscious.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: appleorange]
    #12588935 - 05/18/10 09:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That's also ridiculous. I don't know why I bother to respond to such stuff. It's without merit imo.:thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12589008 - 05/18/10 09:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's also ridiculous. I don't know why I bother to respond to such stuff. It's without merit imo.:thumbdown:




:lol:

And you're also the only person who thinks its without merit as well.

Edited by appleorange (05/19/10 12:26 PM)

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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: appleorange]
    #12589674 - 05/18/10 11:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Animals don't just have consciousness, they are consciousness. However they are not aware of this fact or in other words they are not conscious of their consciousness.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: appleorange]
    #12590483 - 05/19/10 06:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's also ridiculous. I don't know why I bother to respond to such stuff. It's without merit imo.:thumbdown:




:lol:

And you're also the only person thinks its without merit as well.





Too bad this subject has freaked you out so.:satansmoking: I understand.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: soldatheero]
    #12590486 - 05/19/10 06:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Animals don't just have consciousness, they are consciousness. However they are not aware of this fact or in other words they are not conscious of their consciousness.





And you know this how?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12591252 - 05/19/10 10:30 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Cats have an amygdala that resembles a teenage humans'.
I've been watching my cat and I haven't seen a single emotion that she cannot convey.
Nor a single emotion that she doesn't respond to much as I would have in my teens.

It's also interesting to me to look at someone like Cyndi Lauper who recently was on The Celebrity Apprentice. Over and over again she could be heard remarking how much the competition felt like high school to her. This made sense to me because of her heightened emotionality -- she was VERY reactive to emotional situations which is very indicative of the enlarged amygdala of adolescence. But along with this, she carried an intense creativity that never lessened. Every task she would come with a new style, new hair, fresh and creative looks. She was constantly rebelling against the dull and mundane nature of the business world, trying to break it open with something spontaneous and fun.   

This can be noticed in a cat as well IMO. Our cat has been in a small apartment for over a year now, but she continues to find ways to do something we've never seen before. To use an object in new and interesting ways. To take that abundant emotional drive and turn it into creative energy.

I guess what I'm getting at is, what really differs if we examine the surface? One can talk?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
    #12591372 - 05/19/10 10:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How this universal consciousness, if it exists, is ultimately love directed?





What is universal conciousness?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Kickle]
    #12591385 - 05/19/10 11:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Did you mean this for me? Cause I believe other animals are conscious much like we are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Fraggin]
    #12591389 - 05/19/10 11:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
How this universal consciousness, if it exists, is ultimately love directed?





What is universal conciousness?




Everything being one thing and that thing being conscious of itself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSaidin
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Re: Explain to me again. [Re: deCypher]
    #12591419 - 05/19/10 11:08 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Cypher said:
Quote:

Saidin said:
Hate has its roots in fear.




Would you mind elaborating on this thought?  Why is this true?




Why do you hate?  What is the mechanism, or cause of that hate?  Follow it back.

Fear leads to anger which leads to hate which leads to suffering, young Skywalker.


--------------------
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?  And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

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