|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Explain to me again.
#12584245 - 05/18/10 08:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
How this universal consciousness, if it exists, is ultimately love directed?
When walking this morning my big old dog treed a young raccoon. It looked so scared up in that little tree with Kilo trying desperately to get at it. Then I remembered that Kilo is one of the sweetest dogs I've owned and that raccoon would have no trouble tearing into a nest full of young helpless newborn birds. This isn't even taking a hard look at how primates, including and especially humans, behave much of the time.
Now explain to me again how a consciousness that expresses itself in these ways is all about love and niceness? Cause it really doesn't make sense to me. Especially if one is going to claim that this consciousness is very very aware.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
NastyDHL



Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 3,586
Loc: New England
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12584284 - 05/18/10 08:19 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
fear or love
and bewildered animals (including humans) fall into the fear category
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12584337 - 05/18/10 08:30 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Separate things in nature will naturally consume other separate things to survive, its the only way it can work for a while The realization of consciousness beyond the separate forms is a unified field of consciousness That unity is felt as Love, the lack of separation, just like when you hug your dog or your gf you feel love/the lessening of separation (assuming you do feel love when you hug your dog or gf)
--------------------
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584362 - 05/18/10 08:37 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
As im sure you know by now anyway, no explanation will do Whats the use explaining how love feels or what it is Its much better to fall in love & experience that ineffability that swallows your sense of self
--------------------
|
cc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584390 - 05/18/10 08:44 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I'm with the no explanation theory, though too simple
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584454 - 05/18/10 09:03 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584458 - 05/18/10 09:04 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chronic777 said: As im sure you know by now anyway, no explanation will do Whats the use explaining how love feels or what it is Its much better to fall in love & experience that ineffability that swallows your sense of self
This has nothing to do with my question as far as I can tell. You're off topic.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander] 1
#12584478 - 05/18/10 09:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
Theres the evidence of most species on this planet feeding on each other Then theres also the evidence of some few beings who have gone beyond that and live off sunlight, water & air
--------------------
|
circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584583 - 05/18/10 09:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I think the malice and ferocity in nature is just a selection of a game plan. How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity? (for example).
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness. It's not love so much as perfection or peace, imo. You have to have the pure experience of it directly, unfettered by thought, to understand.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
|
deCypher


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: circastes]
#12584612 - 05/18/10 09:39 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Everyone always talks about fear/love. What about hate?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Chronic7]
#12584709 - 05/18/10 10:07 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: its the only way it can work for a while
Why? And how do you know?
Theres the evidence of most species on this planet feeding on each other Then theres also the evidence of some few beings who have gone beyond that and live off sunlight, water & air
What???????? What does that have to do with knowing things have to be this way only for awhile?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: circastes]
#12584744 - 05/18/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
circastes said: I think the malice and ferocity in nature is just a selection of a game plan. How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity? (for example).
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness. It's not love so much as perfection or peace, imo. You have to have the pure experience of it directly, unfettered by thought, to understand.
How else could this universal consciousness conjure the values of courage and valor, without malice and ferocity?
But this is exactly my point and the one no one addresses. Why would a universal consciousness need to conjure these values if it was already it's primary values and it's was already everything?????
Remember there is only one Self. So who or what suffers, at any time? No one, it is chosen mistakenly.
If there is no one who suffers there would have to be no one who chooses suffering. ?????
Everythings ultimate state is love, because that's the nature of the universal consciousness.
Rather, imo, it seems this is the reaction of humans who cannot handle nature and creation the way it actually appears. They must put love at the center or all their anxieties are aroused.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Tony
Stranger

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 958
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585023 - 05/18/10 11:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Love is something the heart desires, right? Something wants to be accepted as it is. Something wants unconditional love. Where can you get that kind of love? Nowhere. You are that love. Within you everything arises and falls. You do not judge. You observe. How simple is that?
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Tony]
#12585181 - 05/18/10 11:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Something also wants to hate and fear and covet and excite and all that other shit.
What does this have to do with my question?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Tony
Stranger

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 958
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585289 - 05/18/10 12:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
But can you ever find that which hates, fears and covets? Aren't these just energetic movements that awareness observes?
What I was trying to express with "the heart desires love" part is that there is something that seems to want love. This is an absurd desire, although very authentic in a sense. That all-accepting love is already present, watching and not judging.
What more could you ask for?
Edited by Tony (05/18/10 12:19 PM)
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585344 - 05/18/10 12:22 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Duality cannot be reconciled in convention, but only transcended. Your dog is the raccoon. Emptiness. It can't be intellectualized, only felt.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Tony]
#12585366 - 05/18/10 12:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tony said: But can you ever find that which hates, fears and covets? Aren't these just energetic movements that awareness observes?
What I was trying to express with "the heart desires love" part is that there is something that seems to want love. This is an absurd desire, although very authentic in a sense. That all-accepting love is already present, watching and not judging.
What more could you ask for?
You also never can find that which loves. Again you are not responding to my question as far as I can tell.
Also how is love an absurd desire? It's ingrained in us as infants to seek it out for survival purposes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12585378 - 05/18/10 12:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: Duality cannot be reconciled in convention, but only transcended. Your dog is the raccoon. Emptiness. It can't be intellectualized, only felt.
What does this have to do with answering the question I asked?
If I don't feel something it doesn't exist then. And so this brings me back to my OP.
Now to say it can only be felt would either be true or just avoiding a painful truth by avoiding a reasonable response.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: Icelander]
#12585419 - 05/18/10 12:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Your not going to get a reasonable response because the idea I speak of is trans-rational. It can not be understood by the mind - the mind is what clouds the understanding. Mind implies duality - at it's core it the subject-object distinction. When you begin to identify with the awareness behind the "I" thought you may feel the emptiness I speak of.
|
Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
|
Re: Explain to me again. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12585493 - 05/18/10 12:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
By the definition of consciousness you cannot experience universal consciousness unless you have expanded your own.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
|