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Pfffffff
I am sofa king we todd ed
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The hatred for coffee
#12581116 - 05/17/10 06:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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A friend of a friend has done numerous grows using coir, verm, cow doody, earthworm doody, gypsum, potting soil, you name it. However, everytime he uses coffee he gets contams about the time the second flush comes. What is he doing wrong? Like I said, every other possible ingredient has been used without issue. Why is coffee becoming his black cloud? I admit his environment isn't clean but for fuck's sake everything else comes out fine, flushing until the sub is dead and just not producing. Coffee is the only one that has these results...
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Raw
Muslim



Registered: 03/23/10
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581198 - 05/17/10 07:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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pH adjustment? Too much coffee?
Trich eh? Does he add lime or limestone to bring the pH up?
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ukshroomer
Law Abider


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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Raw]
#12581214 - 05/17/10 07:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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i avoid coffee as well. it lowers ph a lot which is risky. If he is using coffee he should definitely also be using gypsum to help prevent ph swings. coffee is very acidic.
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Pfffffff
I am sofa king we todd ed
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Loc: Somewhere that is fiction...
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: ukshroomer]
#12581256 - 05/17/10 07:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Gypsum is always included...no lime or anything like that. He has some PH-up, would that possibly benefit him? We're talking bulk sub here, not casing material by the way...
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I say truthful or real life experience. Any advice
given or received is purely for entertainment value
and not intended for any kind of illegal activity.
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Dharmatripper
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581277 - 05/17/10 07:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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are you giving it a good pasteurization? Where do you get your coffee from? how do you prepare it?
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Pfffffff
I am sofa king we todd ed
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Coffee is acquired from starfucks. It's mixed in prior to pasteurization. Here's the recipe used:
1 brick compressed coir (roughly 8-10 quarts) 4 quarts cow doody 4 quarts verm (IF coffee is used) 1-2 quart(s) spent coffee grounds from the bucks 1 quart gypsum 1 quart earthworm doody
Everything is mixed thoroughly while still dry. Generally, it looks pretty even. Then water is added (something to the tune of 3 or 4 quarts) until a little trickles out on a gentle squeeze. Everything is loaded into an oven bag (usually its the perfect amount to fill the bag from the recipe above) and baked until internal probed temp reaches 140 (it takes about 6 hours or so). After that, it's spawned once internal temp reaches something around 95-100 degrees F max...overnight is sufficient to get good temperature.
This mix works phenomenally usually...coffee seems to be what throws it off the worst.
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and not intended for any kind of illegal activity.
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boogiem0nst3r
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581490 - 05/17/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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6 hours? wow.
What are the temps outside when the inside reaches 140? Perhaps the outside becomes too hot, and as a result becomes either overly pasteurized or sterilized in the process?
_boogie.
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Grumpyorc
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581494 - 05/17/10 07:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Remember that joke about the guy telling the doctor "It hurts when I do this" and he says "Then don't do that"
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Pfffffff
I am sofa king we todd ed
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Grumpyorc]
#12581536 - 05/17/10 08:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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6 hours because he sets the oven on low (roughly 170) and waits until the internal temp (taken with a meat thermometer) hits 140. Then he turns off the oven and it stays about 140-150 for a while (at least 3 hours). He knows there are "easier" ways to do this but he gets almost 20 quarts of pasteurized sub that he knows for a fact has been kept 140-150 for a while. He doesn't like doing jars for pasteurization because it just seems slower. In a 16 quart presto (capacity being 7 quart jars), that is 3 full runs at 7 jars each. Easily 6 hours, probably more.
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I say truthful or real life experience. Any advice
given or received is purely for entertainment value
and not intended for any kind of illegal activity.
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Dharmatripper
Deceased

Registered: 09/05/09
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Quote:
boogiem0nst3r said: 6 hours? wow.
What are the temps outside when the inside reaches 140? Perhaps the outside becomes too hot, and as a result becomes either overly pasteurized or sterilized in the process?
_boogie.
Definitely seems like a possibility--maybe you're partially sterilizing parts of your mix. Also, you can go up to 10% gypsum or even a slightly more with no problem--for your recipe you could throw a whole other qt in.
I always use "Starfucks" coffee and have never had an issue--I pasteurize using the uber simple and effective bucket method (KISS).
So maybe add more gypsum, change or modify your pasteurization tek, and give it another go?
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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u can use bloodmeal in lieu of coffee. Makes substrates last longer, i.e. better 2nd and 3rd flushes.
it's totally un-necessary to supplement the coir/verm tho. one approach is to just harvest the first couple flushes and toss the sub.
also, try the bucket tek as dharma suggests. I'm skeptical of 140 being the optimal pasteurization temp. I've had better luck with the bucket tek also.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
Edited by anonjon (05/17/10 08:47 PM)
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Pfffffff
I am sofa king we todd ed
Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 486
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: anonjon]
#12581819 - 05/17/10 08:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: u can use bloodmeal in lieu of coffee. Makes substrates last longer, i.e. better 2nd and 3rd flushes.
it's totally un-necessary to supplement the coir/verm tho. one approach is to just harvest the first couple flushes and toss the sub.
also, try the bucket tek as dharma suggests. I'm skeptical of 140 being the optimal pasteurization temp. I've had better luck with the bucket tek also.
I refuse to dispose of a fruiting sub unless it's not worth it. If I can get a (dry) oz off a sub I still consider it good. Just seems wrong to throw it out because it's not performing quite as nice as a brand new sub.
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I am part of this community as a role playing
character. All information is gathered on the
internet. In no way, shape, or form is any of what
I say truthful or real life experience. Any advice
given or received is purely for entertainment value
and not intended for any kind of illegal activity.
****************************************************
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581835 - 05/17/10 08:58 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pfffffff said: I refuse to dispose of a fruiting sub unless it's not worth it. If I can get a (dry) oz off a sub I still consider it good. Just seems wrong to throw it out because it's not performing quite as nice as a brand new sub.
i can definitely respect that approach. I'm an insensitive bastard who kills subs just cuz they're past their prime.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Dharmatripper
Deceased

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anonjon-I've been meaning to try bloodmeal one of these days--what ratios have you had success with?
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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if you over-supplement you get serious mutants for first flush.
1 cup bloodmeal per brick coir is about the maximum. and you have to really make an effort to mix it up good. wherever the concentration of bloodmeal is too high you'll get mutants for first flush.
It's kindof interesting to observe the mutant flush tho. What happens is that you get soo many primordia smushed together that they have a hard time coalescing into coherent fruitbodies.
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Fungal growth
Lootinint



Registered: 03/21/10
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: Pfffffff]
#12581985 - 05/17/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pfffffff said: Gypsum is always included...no lime or anything like that. He has some PH-up, would that possibly benefit him? We're talking bulk sub here, not casing material by the way...
i have some ph-up, if its the same as mine you dont wanna use it. i cant remember if its potassium hydroxide or another p hydroxide, but its lethal to fungi.
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Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential

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coffee is no-no for me. too many failures.
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Breadnbutterfly
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Dharmatripper
Deceased

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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: anonjon]
#12582143 - 05/17/10 09:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: if you over-supplement you get serious mutants for first flush.
1 cup bloodmeal per brick coir is about the maximum. and you have to really make an effort to mix it up good. wherever the concentration of bloodmeal is too high you'll get mutants for first flush.
It's kindof interesting to observe the mutant flush tho. What happens is that you get soo many primordia smushed together that they have a hard time coalescing into coherent fruitbodies.
Thanks--I think I may give it a try. It's definititly easier to evenly mix a qt or two of coffee than it is less than a cup of something when you're working with 20 qts or so. I think its intereseting that so many people have problems with coffee. I'm not sure if I've just been incredibly lucky or the bucket method is JUST THAT GOOD but I've yet to run into an issue with it.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Quote:
Dharmatripper said: I think its intereseting that so many people have problems with coffee. I'm not sure if I've just been incredibly lucky or the bucket method is JUST THAT GOOD but I've yet to run into an issue with it.
I think 140 is just too cold for the coffee. It's nutritious and acidic, so any bacteria left in it is going to take off fast. The bucket method gets the sub up to about 170-180. I've also had luck boiling the coffee separately in a pot.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: The hatred for coffee [Re: anonjon]
#12584019 - 05/18/10 07:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Coffee is an excellent substrate additive, and it's been many years since I've put together a bulk substrate without it. In fact, every one of the several thousand substrate blocks in my mushroom farm has coffee added, and every batch of the fifty pounds of rye berries we prepare daily is soaked in weak coffee. There's not one single spot of green mold anywhere.
I can't emphasize enough not to use ovens for pasteurization or anything else in mycology with the exception of baking vermiculite before dunk and roll with the brf tek. By the time the center of an oven bag of substrate has heated to pasteurization temperature, you've already killed off the beneficial organisms that will help prevent molds later. Pasteurize using water or steam as the heat-transfer mechanism.
In addition, if your grow room area isn't clean, you'll have to vastly increase air exchange and circulation. Stale, still air will stimulate mold and impeded mushroom mycelium. RR
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